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Tutorial Doctor

A Collaborative Free and Open-Source OS?

116 posts in this topic

The fictional "JARVIS" is IMO actually way more useful and impressive than the "Ironman" suit, and not really related to it, as it existed before that. It's actually nothing less than a sentient AI, a virtual person that can be a valuable assistant to an engineer, by carrying out complex tasks completely on its own, even tasks that require creative thinking, letting the engineer in charge just make the important, "big" decisions. Of course, it's just the age-old dream of a "thinking machine" that completely takes any burden off of the user. Think Space Odyssey's HAL, or any other "thinking machine" in sci-fi. They could be said to be the "ultimate OS", as an OS' purpose is to bridge the gap between the human and the machine. The unfortunate thing is, we are light years away of even seriously thinking about making such a thing. It will be made someday I guess, but most probably not in our lifetime, unless an extraordinary quantum leap happens in the field of AI. And no, many people "dream", only a very few actually build. Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet smile.png

Edited by mikeman
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I wonder will Avengers 2 dissuade you from the idea when you see the problems that may arise.....

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Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet :)

And i'm tired of waiting for them to build it. We have the same type of things. The same type of game engine (Unreal, unity), OS (windows, apple), cars (audi, ferrari), computers/phones (hp, dell, sony, samsung), tvs (lg, sony) etc. It's getting boring.
That's why i'm tired of watching movies rather than making the things in the movies (minus the lethal weapons, deadly viruses etc.).
@walsh: avengers motivates me.
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Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet smile.png

And i'm tired of waiting for them to build it. 

 

 

It's not like people are sitting on their asses doing nothing, or don't daydream about all the exciting things that you do. It's just an *extremely* long road ahead, and there is likely no "royal road" to it either. 

 

And btw, we don't have the "same type" of things. Take 3D engines for example. They might seem the same to you, because you don't know what it takes to make one. A 3D engine runs on a machine with finite resources like CPU and RAM, and built by development teams with finite resources like team size, time and money. Compromises need to be made. Naturally, you'll have to decide which compromises you'll make depending on your goal. Some 3D engines focus on amazing animation, others on amazing lighting, some are better than other in physics, others handle large, streaming worlds better. An "ultimate" system/machine that takes care of every type of need is not an "idea", it's a wish. A magical reactor that harvests energy out of the vacuum is also not an idea, it's a wish. You get my point. You can spend all your days wishing for it, and imagining the day you'll have it built and be showered in global admiration and money, that won't make you any wiser on how to actually build it, or whether it's even desirable to build such a thing.

 

In short: Go write a pong clone first. (and if you don't, because you think it's mundane and "beneath" you to do the same work as all the rest "little people" before you, it's no skin off my back, it's your potential you're wasting pipedreaming, not mine) smile.png

Edited by mikeman
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Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet smile.png

And i'm tired of waiting for them to build it. We have the same type of things. The same type of game engine (Unreal, unity), OS (windows, apple), cars (audi, ferrari), computers/phones (hp, dell, sony, samsung), tvs (lg, sony) etc. It's getting boring.
That's why i'm tired of watching movies rather than making the things in the movies (minus the lethal weapons, deadly viruses etc.).
@walsh: avengers motivates me.

 

So you want to destroy the world??

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So you want to destroy the world??


No!!! The tech does not the "kill'em all weapons" or super arrow/shield thingies.
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So you want to destroy the world??


No!!! The tech does not the "kill'em all weapons" or super arrow/shield thingies.

 

My point was that in Avengers 2, its heavily implied that Tony is creating Ultron (not Hank) and the fact that Jarvis is also getting a body sort of, seems to imply it will go evil.

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Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet smile.png


We are getting closer, MS' Cortana has taken some good steps forward in vocal recognition and human interaction - still someway off a full blown AI but getting closer.

Of course what people like Nathan2222 seem to skip over is that even developing something like Cortana, which is a forerunner to stuff like that, has taken millions, if not billions, of dollars and many many years to do - one kid sitting in a bedroom dreaming on a forum is never going to be able to do it on their own.
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Apple hit it bigger than Windows? Not last time I checked on Mac market share :) On mobile compared to Windows Phone, yes, but then Android (and Symbian before) hit it much bigger than IOS. Android and Windows are the ones to beat today on mobile and PCs.

Personally I find Android user friendly as anything else with a touchscreen. But I'd be wary of equating success with user-friendliness (consider, if you think Android isn't user friendly, then how do you account for its massive dominance?) Whilst Linux distributions have had problems with user friendliness for years, I don't think that's the stumbling block to mainstream usage. The problem is one of marketing and distribution - no advertising, hardly any computers shipping with Linux, it's not going to be used by anyone but geeks.

Though possibly I'm misreading you, and by "beat" etc, you mean make something which is the best. In which case, fine, though another problem is that there's lots of disagreement about what is the best, and what makes something good (e.g., all of us buying Windows PCs or Android devices, while you think Apple are the best:)).

What you describe is what people are already doing with Linux distributions. It's also what companies are doing with Android (whether the customisations by Samsung, HTC etc, or the usage of AOSP by Nokia, Ouya, Amazon).

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We are getting closer, MS' Cortana has taken some good steps forward in vocal recognition and human interaction - still someway off a full blown AI but getting closer.

 

 

Sure, vocal recognition is a vital step towards that direction, but the question is, how much closer does that bring us to a truly intelligent digital assistant that can actually serve to, say, a researcher as a "subsitute" for a grad student, at least in some aspects. One you can instruct "research the biblography on X and write me a 12-page comparative synopsis on the matter I can read". Is that truly only "someway off", or like the saying goes, we are like the man who claims is making progress towards reaching the moon because he's climbed onto a tree?

Edited by mikeman
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Good idea? Bad Idea? Yeah, right?

 

In a perfect world, what you said makes perfect sense. There will come a time you no longer repair your car, just buy a new one.

 

While Joel on Software did say that code does not rust, you still have legacy code and old architecture. Like code to handle diskette, cga / ega graphic mode, etc.

 

So to start a brand new OS while salvaging whatever linux code that is useful would be a great idea. Wrapper code and built in compiler can help in this regard.

 

However, in this world, the biggest problem you would have is hardware support. Drivers. It was a problem for Linux for a long time because no hardware manufacture think its worth their time to write a linux driver. So if you plan to start a new OS from scratch, then you will have this problem. 

 

So the next best thing is to reuse Linux for your purpose, like Valve did with SteamOS.

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Sci-fi writers have dreamt of and described systems and machines like JARVIS or HAL or what-have-you, they haven't built them yet smile.png

We are getting closer, MS' Cortana has taken some good steps forward in vocal recognition and human interaction - still someway off a full blown AI but getting closer.

Of course what people like Nathan2222 seem to skip over is that even developing something like Cortana, which is a forerunner to stuff like that, has taken millions, if not billions, of dollars and many many years to do - one kid sitting in a bedroom dreaming on a forum is never going to be able to do it on their own.

It's also taken thousands of people who are paid salaries and earn a living from this job to do that (which is where most of the billions comes in). I WILL still do it and the assumption of doing it alone is interesting.
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It's also taken thousands of people who are paid salaries and earn a living from this job to do that (which is where most of the billions comes in). I WILL still do it and the assumption of doing it alone is interesting.

 

Go for it.

You are both closer to it and further from it then you think.

Closer since there is lots of work done in the field already, which you are obviously not aware of, and which you should research, since it will cut down on development time a lot.

Further since the work needed is still in the magnitude of hundreds of a thousand man years.

 

Oh, and make sure to not dismiss the scores of people currently living already researching and working on it, it could be a good idea to consolidate your forces.

Edited by Olof Hedman
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Now that I think about it, perhaps an OS with AI would be the best OS.

I used this software once that I can't find anyone called Cynthia 3.0. It was pretty much a chat bot whose image and animation you could change. You could teach it like:

"The sun is a big ball of burning gas in the sky."

This information would be saved to a text file.

Then you could type "what is a sun?"

And it would respond "The sun is a big ball of burning gas in the sky."

Creating a useful enough AI for such a system as seen in sic-fi movies doesn't seem far off with technology like this around, other than voice recognition files, and realistic text to speech recordings.

I myself am working on a pretty realistic AI system that started as a way to detect objects like we do in real life using senses.

I just picked up a new term called "fuzzy logic." That is what such a system as JARVIS would need to use.

To make such AI, You would need the most skilled people in every major science, medical, and artistic field (artistic if you want to make an iron man suit). And you'd need a good and simple yet effective plan.

Perhaps you'd need a cross of augmented reality and virtual reality to get sight right for iron man.

This topic has turned rather fantastic. Haha.
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What could be more efficient than the wheel? I could brainstorm..

Magnetized roads and cars (same charge to make it hover, and using a type of potentiometer to gradually change the strength of the magnet to land). And perhaps propelled by magnetism also? A tilted magnet in the back to propel it forward. Perhaps railing and dividers on the road to keep cars in their lane?

Or perhaps you can use friction force?
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Now that I think about it, perhaps an OS with AI would be the best OS.
I used this software once that I can't find anyone called Cynthia 3.0. It was pretty much a chat bot whose image and animation you could change. You could teach it like:
"The sun is a big ball of burning gas in the sky."
This information would be saved to a text file.
Then you could type "what is a sun?"
And it would respond "The sun is a big ball of burning gas in the sky."
Creating a useful enough AI for such a system as seen in sic-fi movies doesn't seem far off with technology like this around, other than voice recognition files, and realistic text to speech recordings.
I myself am working on a pretty realistic AI system that started as a way to detect objects like we do in real life using senses.
I just picked up a new term called "fuzzy logic." That is what such a system as JARVIS would need to use.
To make such AI, You would need the most skilled people in every major science, medical, and artistic field (artistic if you want to make an iron man suit). And you'd need a good and simple yet effective plan.
Perhaps you'd need a cross of augmented reality and virtual reality to get sight right for iron man.
This topic has turned rather fantastic. Haha.

Have you heard of JARVIS OS? It's being made by a group of 7 people with an average age of < 20. The founder is less than 20 (last time i checked).
Making something as awesome as this is simply hard. Take it one step at a time.
For example, you can start with "JARVIS, search for Iron man on google" then "JARVIS, backup all my phone data and check my schedule" till you reach "JARVIS, make me a watchdogs duplicate and an engine 10 times more efficient than cryengine+unreal". Eventually, it'll reach "Kitt (do you know Kitt?), attack mode". Come to think of it, Kitt is better than JARVIS (name wise).
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Right, and you happen to have any idea yourself on how that machine/AI would be built, other than wishing about it and fantasizing about its existence inspired by comic books and movies? I mean, you realize, you haven't even thought up the *fictional* JARVIS, sci-fi writers have. All you've done so far is wishing it existed, and even your types of "wishes" ("make me an engine 10 times more efficient than cryengine") show exteme naivety: "Make me an engine more efficient than X" means squat. This is not Alladin and the Magical Genie. Even to a hypothetical extremely advanced AI, you'd have to lay down the specifications of the system you want to be built in exact detail. Not only you have absolutely no idea on what this system would take to be built, you have absolutely no idea on what the input to such a system would need to be to yield useful results. Your fantasies would be weak even as sci-fi fan literature, let alone scientific reality.

 

See, I could go around on forums too, claiming I will "start" with a spaceship that speeds at 0.1c, then at 0.3c, then at 0.5c, and eventually "it'll reach" one that speeds at 0.999c and visit other solar system...and the reality would be...I haven't even made a LEGO spaceship yet.

 

Yeah...things seem *real* easy when your context are action sci-fi movies, and every problem is solved with technobabble, hand-waving and a change of polarity.

 

For crying out loud mate, I've seen you go on about this for months, on more than one forums, things are not gonna materialize if you fantasize about them long enough. Snap out of it and start *making* something instead of counting how many lines of code Unreal has. Maybe then you'll see how hard building something really is and what does it take. Right now you have a head full of fantasies and absolutely nothing to show. Not even a pong clone.

Edited by mikeman
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I mean, you realize, you haven't even thought up the *fictional* JARVIS, sci-fi writers have. All you've done so far is wishing it existed . . .
For crying out loud mate, I've seen you go on about this for months, on more than one forums. Snap out of it and start *making* something instead of counting how many lines of code Unreal has.

1) You have no idea what i've thought up.
2) Show me exactly where i said "i wish it will exist".
3) Show me exactly where i said "i am starting this project today".
4) Show me exactly where i said "i'm not going to make a pong clone".
Thanks.
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But everything you say is merely a wish. So far I haven't seen you contribute to this forum anything other than posting about how you will someday make the most advanced thing ever and what it will do. That's a wish smile.png

 

Gah, anyway, we've derailed this thread way too much...in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have made those posts, but, well...

Edited by mikeman
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I just picked up a new term called "fuzzy logic." That is what such a system as JARVIS would need to use.

 

If your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

I'm sure anything like JARVIS would need a lot more advanced methods then just fuzzy logic.

Specially since fuzzy logic has been around for 60-100 years depending on how you count, and we still don't have any Jarvises..

 

This is to both TD and Nathan2222:

 

If you are serious about AI, a good starting point is reading "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach" by Peter Norvig and Stuart Russel.

Just to get up to speed with the current "state of the art", before trying to improve on it, and to not spend too much time on already mapped ground.

Link to the books homepage: http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/

Edited by Olof Hedman
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I mean, you realize, you haven't even thought up the *fictional* JARVIS, sci-fi writers have. All you've done so far is wishing it existed . . .
For crying out loud mate, I've seen you go on about this for months, on more than one forums. Snap out of it and start *making* something instead of counting how many lines of code Unreal has.

1) You have no idea what i've thought up.
2) Show me exactly where i said "i wish it will exist".
3) Show me exactly where i said "i am starting this project today".
4) Show me exactly where i said "i'm not going to make a pong clone".
Thanks.

 

1) This one is true. You have frequently denied the meaning behind your posts so even though you say lots of stuff who knows what you are thinking

2) Plenty of times just in this topic and plenty elsewhere too

3) You probably should be starting it so that way it stops being a dream

4) You may not have used those words but many times you gave out about advice given to beginners and single programmers.

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I mean, you realize, you haven't even thought up the *fictional* JARVIS, sci-fi writers have. All you've done so far is wishing it existed . . .
For crying out loud mate, I've seen you go on about this for months, on more than one forums. Snap out of it and start *making* something instead of counting how many lines of code Unreal has.

1) You have no idea what i've thought up.
2) Show me exactly where i said "i wish it will exist".
3) Show me exactly where i said "i am starting this project today".
4) Show me exactly where i said "i'm not going to make a pong clone".
Thanks.
1) This one is true. You have frequently denied the meaning behind your posts so even though you say lots of stuff who knows what you are thinking
2) Plenty of times just in this topic and plenty elsewhere too
3) You probably should be starting it so that way it stops being a dream
4) You may not have used those words but many times you gave out about advice given to beginners and single programmers.
show where i said "i wish this OS existed" and i'll stop. Just one, please.
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3) You probably should be starting it so that way it stops being a dream

No you don't understand, let me answer this with a quote:

 

Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein

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