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      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
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theflink

I need some serious help from you guys! (Bring spatulas)

18 posts in this topic

Yeah.. I don't know what the spatulas are for.. 

 

 

 

Hey guys, my name is Marc, and this is yet another one of those "help, i need you to tell me what to do, and im doing it in the wrong subforum) kind of thread. 

 

I'm finally done with school, and i have the means to start becoming a developer (i know this is a long and rough process)

 

I am willing to spend all the time necessary to study this craft until my skills are sufficient, and I can develop the game I have in mind. Therefore, i have some questions for you guys around starting up as a developer. I did have a look at some older threads, however i couldn't find answers (perhaps because I didn't search for too long...) and it seemed easier to write all this crap..

 

I am looking to develop a first person adventure game with a mix of black and white and colours (as in that it changes between the two at various points of  the story) As of right now, I only know a bit of Unityscript, but as I said, I am prepared to spend all the time necessary to learn whatever I need. 

 

So, what i really need to know is: What engine should I pick guys?? Like I said, it's a first person adventure (think something along the lines of Stanley's Parable). I have been messing around with both Unity and Unreal Engine 4 (I have the full subscriptionbased version) but i don't know which one i should choose? My plan is to introduce a programmer to the project when i get way further into it, so he can take care of animations and scripting, and I'll be doing level-design, artwork, soundtrack and narrating (which will be a key feature in the game) 

 

Unity uses Unityscript, as far as I know, but also C# i think??  Unreal uses C++ which I've heard is the hardest to learn/use. 

 

I really hope you guys can help me a bit? Which engine should i learn to use, and which programming language should i learn (I would only be doing basic stuff since i'll outsouce the major components of the scripting and programming..)

 

 

I really hope you guys can help ;) Thank you so much in advance, and sorry for just throwing this into the biggest subforum ,but i dont know what to do :D

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Therefore, i have some questions for you guys around starting up as a developer.

Developers are the guys who actually code. In game dev these people often implement AI/gamelogic/rendering systems, therefor I would sugguest to start coding of some tech demos, not games, to show off your coding skills. If you want to get a job, these tech demos + an IT degree helps a lot (I fear, that the degree will be most likely mandatory for many jobs in the AAA industry).

 

If you plan to go into game design, a small, simple, innovative game which show off some interesting game mechanism is more suiteable than using a hi-end engine to show of same fancy art which was made by someone else.

 

If you plan to go the indie-route (make a game by yourself or a small group of people), using an existing engine and making a game is a valid option. In this case a modding an existing (udk or unity based) game would be a good start.

 

 

Did you even read my thread -_-''

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I'm slight confused - if you want to do the level-design, artwork, audio....then the engine itself should really be up to the programmer to decide. Let him (or her) use their experience to pick their preferred engine, add your assets and make them work together.

 

that said, you are going to need to build a prototype before you get someone interested, for that I would advise you use the engine you feel more comfortable to get a running demo.

 

Best of luck! smile.png

Edited by Boffy
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I'm slight confused - if you want to do the level-design, artwork, audio....then the engine itself should really be up to the programmer to decide. Let him (or her) use their experience to pick their preferred engine, add your assets and make them work together.

 

that said, you are going to need to build a prototype before you get someone interested, for that I would advise you use the engine you feel more comfortable to get a running demo.

 

Best of luck! smile.png

 

 

Well my idea of the work i was going to do, was that I'd be doing most of the gamedesign, however, i figured I would need some type of prototype to show people what i was even talking about before I could get someone competent to work on my game.. Therefore, i would need to learn some programming as well. It would be nice to learn it anyway just for the sake of knowing how things work. 

 

 

And To Herwin: I didn't mean to be rude or anything, but I've been closely following the gaming industry for almost 10 years, and I do mean closely!  I know, what a programmer is and what he does, and I know what a Designer does. I just didn't seem like he even read my thread.. I'm not looking to get hired, and I'm not interested in making Tech demoes.. I want to make this game, and this game will be the showcase of all the things I'm about to learn. I don't have any illusions of game-developing being easy. I know it's damn hard, and I also know how it works. I just thought i made it clear from my post, that I wanted to do an indie game with me and another person who would join development at a later point.. And I don't want to mod ;(

Edited by theflink
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Well my idea of the work i was going to do, was that I'd be doing most of the gamedesign, however, i figured I would need some type of prototype to show people what i was even talking about before I could get someone competent to work on my game.. Therefore, i would need to learn some programming as well. It would be nice to learn it anyway just for the sake of knowing how things work. 

 

And To Herwin: I didn't mean to be rude or anything, but I've been closely following the gaming industry for almost 10 years, and I do mean closely!  I know, what a programmer is and what he does, and I know what a Designer does. I just didn't seem like he even read my thread.. I'm not looking to get hired, and I'm not interested in making Tech demoes.. I want to make this game, and this game will be the showcase of all the things I'm about to learn. I don't have any illusions of game-developing being easy. I know it's damn hard, and I also know how it works. I just thought i made it clear from my post, that I wanted to do an indie game with me and another person who would join development at a later point.. And I don't want to mod ;(

 

You need a good design document to make people interested too. Sometimes you will find difficulties in showing people a prototype (you might meet some bugs while showing them, etc), and it also takes time to make one. A well-written design document can give enough information to make people interested to join your team, and it acts as a looking-point while you're working on your game.

 

The design focus is written in the design document, as well as the sub focuses and other stuff like what engine you're going to use, what kind of art, music, why, how, etc. Even when you're working on your prototype, a design document can be helpful too, so make that first. You might find some potential problems or benefits you haven't seen before while writing it.

 

A good game designer should understand every components of a game. He needs to understand visual art, music, story telling, programming, and project management, but there's no need to be an expert on those. You don't have to be a maestro who can play 18 instruments. You just need to know what kind of music can make a boss fight feel daring.

 

For now, just learn a programming language and Object Oriented Programming. You will find a lot more to learn as you go.

 

Edit: A design focus is the idea that makes the game interesting. For example, Dark Souls' design focus could be its difficulties, because some hardcore gamers love challenge. Other stuff like gameplay, art theme, and story are chosen to achieve the focus. In Dark Souls' case, the difficulties is served in a real-time action RPG (the gameplay) and resolves around a main character who's a weak undead (story line). The game is wrapped in a dark atmosphere (visual) to support the difficult nature of the game. All of these stuff is written in the design document.

Edited by Herwin P
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Well my idea of the work i was going to do, was that I'd be doing most of the gamedesign, however, i figured I would need some type of prototype to show people what i was even talking about before I could get someone competent to work on my game.. Therefore, i would need to learn some programming as well. It would be nice to learn it anyway just for the sake of knowing how things work. 

 

And To Herwin: I didn't mean to be rude or anything, but I've been closely following the gaming industry for almost 10 years, and I do mean closely!  I know, what a programmer is and what he does, and I know what a Designer does. I just didn't seem like he even read my thread.. I'm not looking to get hired, and I'm not interested in making Tech demoes.. I want to make this game, and this game will be the showcase of all the things I'm about to learn. I don't have any illusions of game-developing being easy. I know it's damn hard, and I also know how it works. I just thought i made it clear from my post, that I wanted to do an indie game with me and another person who would join development at a later point.. And I don't want to mod ;(

 

You need a good design document to make people interested too. Sometimes you will find difficulties in showing people a prototype (you might meet some bugs while showing them, etc), and it also takes time to make one. A well-written design document can give enough information to make people interested to join your team, and it acts as a looking-point while you're working on your game.

 

The design focus is written in the design document, as well as the sub focuses and other stuff like what engine you're going to use, what kind of art, music, why, how, etc. Even when you're working on your prototype, a design document can be helpful too, so make that first. You might find some potential problems or benefits you haven't seen before while writing it.

 

A good game designer should understand every components of a game. He needs to understand visual art, music, story telling, programming, and project management, but there's no need to be an expert on those. You don't have to be a maestro who can play 18 instruments. You just need to know what kind of music can make a boss fight feel daring.

 

For now, just learn a programming language and Object Oriented Programming. You will find a lot more to learn as you go.

 

 

Thank you. You have been very helpful :)

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Don't really understand the downvotes ... people read your post ... but there is a mismatch between the "I'm pumped and I will do whatever it takes" statement and "I would only be doing basic stuff since i'll outsouce the major components of the scripting and programming..".

 

We need to know your "target performance levels" as a programmer and/or as a game designer in order to provide helpful advice.

If you want to be able to develop an Indie game, you should start with something simple like Snake and Tetris.

That is the only way to see how awfully hard seemingly basic things are.

It seems that you want to make sure that are not confronted with that advice, but maybe I am wrong!?

 

I'll just say that you will pay the price if you specialize on an engine and high level libraries without getting a feel for the programming basics and the big picture stuff.

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Don't really understand the downvotes ... people read your post ... but there is a mismatch between the "I'm pumped and I will do whatever it takes" statement and "I would only be doing basic stuff since i'll outsouce the major components of the scripting and programming..".

 

We need to know your "target performance levels" as a programmer and/or as a game designer in order to provide helpful advice.

If you want to be able to develop an Indie game, you should start with something simple like Snake and Tetris.

That is the only way to see how awfully hard seemingly basic things are.

It seems that you want to make sure that are not confronted with that advice, but maybe I am wrong!?

 

I'll just say that you will pay the price if you specialize on an engine and high level libraries without getting a feel for the programming basics and the big picture stuff.

 

Why wont you listen. I just said it twice.. I really try not to seem rude but really man? I've written it twice now, that i need to learn programming and scripting so i can make a prototype, and to know what is going on. That's why i want to learn it. It's not a contradiction. I want to learn enough to make a playable prototype so i can show people my vision to get them onboard so i can actually make a good game. My goal isnt to do it all myself. I want to do all the design stuff. Get it now?? 

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Or maybe you're the one not expressing yourself as clearly as you think you do. Because I was about to post something extremely similar to what some of us said before being ninja'ed. In any case its not necessary to be that aggressive in your post, it's really not a good trait for a designer.

 

No matter what you think:

 

In any case, you should not start with such a strong focus on the game you will eventually make. You need to start with simpler things.

 

Is a very good advice.

 

 

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Why wont you listen. I just said it twice.. I really try not to seem rude but really man? I've written it twice now, that i need to learn programming and scripting so i can make a prototype, and to know what is going on. That's why i want to learn it. It's not a contradiction. I want to learn enough to make a playable prototype so i can show people my vision to get them onboard so i can actually make a good game. My goal isnt to do it all myself. I want to do all the design stuff. Get it now?? 

 

Wow. You seem like great fun to work with. Where do I sign?

 

That aside, yes you can develop with C# in Unity and it is (so I understand) an excellent tool for prototyping and you can do a great deal without having to do much more than simple scripting. I'd suggest you look into the vast wealth of resources available for introduction to Unity.

 

Seriously, I can't google anything I'm interested in in game development now without Unity taking up the first two pages of Google.

Edited by Aardvajk
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Don't really understand the downvotes ... people read your post ... but there is a mismatch between the "I'm pumped and I will do whatever it takes" statement and "I would only be doing basic stuff since i'll outsouce the major components of the scripting and programming..".

 

We need to know your "target performance levels" as a programmer and/or as a game designer in order to provide helpful advice.

If you want to be able to develop an Indie game, you should start with something simple like Snake and Tetris.

That is the only way to see how awfully hard seemingly basic things are.

It seems that you want to make sure that are not confronted with that advice, but maybe I am wrong!?

 

I'll just say that you will pay the price if you specialize on an engine and high level libraries without getting a feel for the programming basics and the big picture stuff.

 

Why wont you listen. I just said it twice.. I really try not to seem rude but really man? I've written it twice now, that i need to learn programming and scripting so i can make a prototype, and to know what is going on. That's why i want to learn it. It's not a contradiction. I want to learn enough to make a playable prototype so i can show people my vision to get them onboard so i can actually make a good game. My goal isnt to do it all myself. I want to do all the design stuff. Get it now?? 

 

Saying you want to learn to program and the only thing you want to make is a 3D game rather than practise on something simple along the way, is like saying you want to learn to be an engineer but your first project is going to be a Formula 1 car. Making small games is PART OF learning to program, not a diversion.

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I detected a spark of enthusiasm, from your question, which is great.  When you create a movie, all you need is a script, to begin with and you don't need experience but dedication.  I guess you could go the same way with a game.  I haven't really completed a full PC game but I've had a lot of experience programming.  After the years I wish I could have that enthusiasm that I first had.  I wouldn't want you to lose your initial vision.  If you break it down there isn't a great deal you need for a decent game, nice characters, nice scenery, dialog, networking.

 

The engine: the bullet physics engine is good for physics in your game; though at first it may seem difficult.

 

You can use the D3DX library to create 3D characters.

 

I'm talking about c++ here.

 

It could take a long time, years to learn.  I've learned it.  I'm not asking you to.

 

But a simple idea can go a long way - Flappy Bird

 

I have free time so if you want I could try my hand at making a small prototype, what do you think?

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If you want me to be frank being a designer doesn't really happen usually without having another core skill set like programming.

If you're really just interested in focusing on the design of games and not having to deal with all the tools then I would definitely look towards a simpler program like Game Maker or something rather than a full fledged engine like Unity.

Enthusiasm is good but I think a lot of people are just taking what you say as being impatient and not reading between the lines of what they are trying to convey to you, you're not likely to make games without being an artist, a programmer, a team leader, something like that. Just being able to do design doesn't really happen.
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I detected a spark of enthusiasm, from your question, which is great.  When you create a movie, all you need is a script, to begin with and you don't need experience but dedication.  I guess you could go the same way with a game.  I haven't really completed a full PC game but I've had a lot of experience programming.  After the years I wish I could have that enthusiasm that I first had.  I wouldn't want you to lose your initial vision.  If you break it down there isn't a great deal you need for a decent game, nice characters, nice scenery, dialog, networking.

 

The engine: the bullet physics engine is good for physics in your game; though at first it may seem difficult.

 

You can use the D3DX library to create 3D characters.

 

I'm talking about c++ here.

 

It could take a long time, years to learn.  I've learned it.  I'm not asking you to.

 

But a simple idea can go a long way - Flappy Bird

 

I have free time so if you want I could try my hand at making a small prototype, what do you think?

 

I sent you a personal message. hope you'll read it :)

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