how to find specefic platforms sdk like p34 and xone?

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18 comments, last by 3Ddreamer 9 years, 10 months ago

AFAIK Microsoft does *plan* to make retail units as dev kits, but you still need dev kits.

We still haven't got through the whole process for Xbox One, but I can confirm that dev kits cost *much* less for indie developers than what Hodgman said. As a start-up, we can definitely afford it without any financial strain. Once you get approved, you will know more about the fees.

Just have in mind that the documentation is not what it could be for indie developers, so you have to maintain more active contact with Microsoft in order to know more and have more up-to-date information.

Also, we are all playing on the edge as to what we can and cannot say, as almost all that wasn't said the last BUILD is still covered by NDAs.

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sorry. what is retail units?


retail units

The regular XBox One that you (as a retail customer) can go buy at the store.

Traditionally, dev kits are distinct from the retail hardware. The dev kits are made available to key developers before the retail console is released (or even completed), so while they share much of the hardware internals with the retail model, they may have unfinished cases and extra debugging support.

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i think there are diffrent levels of indie developers. some indie developers are like that game company that made flower or journey. they are some experienced team that team is just more little than AAA developer teams. but as other people i think if there is an idea easiest platform to make is pc because you run the game on same platform you make with same features. for other platforms like ps and xbox there should be more experienced team and better budget to make even as indie developer. maybe pc is not the most attendant market but still markets like steam are good for it.

This is a completely different topic. In my opinion, it is much easier to program for a console (except for the publishing part). You write it on your console and then it runs the same on all other consoles, for all your customers. So long as you don't depend on the Internet connection speed, of course. And with libraries like the DirectX Toolkit (https://directxtk.codeplex.com/), you can write almost as if you were using XNA.

With PCs, it is HELL on Earth. DirectX, OpengGL, different operating systems, different drivers, different installed programs, different versions of .NET and the C++ runtime... You can't even depend on good old Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player being installed anymore for EU PCs. And you have to test it like crazy, and then you *know* it's going to crash and be totally unplayable for some users because of some stupid combo you didn't think possible. And don't get me started on pirated Windows XPs that never got updated.

In this sense, I like what Steam are doing with SteamOS and their bare-bones Linux libraries & compiler.

Dev-kits cost thousands of USD, submitting a game (for mandatory QA testing) costs 10's of thousands of USD, printing disks costs 100's of thousands of USD's.

To develop for consoles, your company needs to get in contact with Sony/Microsoft and sign a confidentiality agreement.

If you're an indie (with not much money), but they really like your game, they might be nice enough to give you free dev-kits and to waive the submission fees.

Hodgman's answer is a little out of date.

During the last generation of consoles, what he said was true and indie development was not really feasible. It's much easier, cheaper, and more reasonable to be an indie console dev this generation. Not as easy, cheap, or reasonable as PC, but still quite possible

If you're not indie, or they don't like your game enough to get onto the "have some free stuff" train, then the prices above are in the ball-park -- you'll want several 10's of thousands of dollars alone just to pay for kits and submissions (and that's for a digital game - physical is a whole different league).
If you're an attractive indie, then yeah, you might be able to score a couple of free kits and submissions (as mentioned), but it's not exactly easy to do so. If you want more than a couple, you might still be asked for $10k a pop...
In either case, you do need an agreement between your company and Sony/MS/etc.

Last generation, doing an digitally-distributed indie game on 360 was near impossible (you'd need a publisher's blessing / fiefdom). Doing self-published digital games on PS3 was possible, but still expensive.
This generation, the publishing barriers have been lifted, but things are still as expensive as ever, except that there's currently these official programs to give freebies to some indies happy.png

If you're a hobbyist, then last generation's Xbox Live Indie Games (AKA XNA) was an amazing opportunity to do (restricted) console development practically for free (tiny fees, no company licensing, no ridiculously strict compliance tests, no need to have a publisher...). We're yet to see another program like that for Xbone/PS4 unsure.png

these platforms are not in indie version of udk ue4 and unity. so how should i work for these platforms?

Once you've been approved by Sony and/or Microsoft, you can ask your Sony/MS account manager to send an email to Epic saying that you are licensed, and Epic will then give you access to the PS4/XB1 versions of UE4.

i think there are diffrent levels of indie developers. some indie developers are like that game company that made flower or journey. they are some experienced team that team is just more little than AAA developer teams.

TGC was a 2nd party developer when they made flower/journey - they were funded, housed within and published by Sony.

1st party devs are owned by a platform-holder (Sony/MS/Nintendo/etc).
2nd party devs do work-for-hire, directly for a platform-holder.
3rd party devs do work-for-hire, directly for publishers, OR, they're outright owned by a publisher.
Independent devs do not work for a publisher or a platform-holder -- they work for themselves and either self-publish, or use a publisher's services but aren't funded up-front by the publisher (unlike 3rd party developers, who are funded by publishers).

You can then split Independent devs into those who have previous experience at these large companies vs those who don't, and can split them by those that have a lot of funding (e.g. investment by venture capitalists) vs those who are working out of their family basement laugh.png

So TGC started off as basically a part of Sony, and now that their contract with Sony is completed they're independent again. However, they're now funding their company by accepting investment by venture capitalists, which means that they don't actually own their company (the investors own it), so I wouldn't call them "an indie company".

maybe you are right hodgman. your inforamtion is much more than me. i said they are indie because i remember they won indie game award of the year in vga awards.

why those sdks are that expensice and they have nda for it? they dont want more games on their platform? i think it makes their platform more popular. maybe they think it is an standard for them and it makes only high quality will be made for their consoles? and why people shouldn know about those sdk pltaforms? everyone can work with win sdk and direct x but not xbox sdk? why ?

Playstation 34 SDK will be a though one to find. Thats for sure.

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If you're an indie (with not much money), but they really like your game, they might be nice enough to give you free dev-kits and to waive the submission fees.

Contest winners get privy, but they are slowly adding the stipulations such as proof of concept, registered development company, and the contracts are getting more binding on future completed projects. "Free" stuff comes with added out of pocket costs and relinguishing true Indy status, it would seem to me, but what do I know. unsure.png

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