I'm an indie game designer and have been trouble finding a reliable programmer to create my game (it's a SP and MP final fantasy tactics like game). I want to program the game to be cross platform so I am considering Love2D, java, or C. I am considering hiring a programmer to work on it for me since I can only do basic stuff. However, I work a normal day job like most people and can't afford to pay a lot. Before I commit myself to this option what would be a reasonable amount to offer for a project like this? Also, what would be a typical way to measure work (pay by milestones or pay by month?).

Not sure which thread I should reply to, you have two of them (doesn't Gamedev.net have any mechanisms to prevent double-threads?) but I'll just reply in this one. A mod/admin might see this and decides to move this post later.

From what I see in the Hobbyist Projects section of Classifieds, it's mostly pay-by-milestones. So you complete a demo, go for a Kickstarter campaign, and pay afterwards, or pay after the game makes money. In this case, it's usually profit-sharing instead of the usual weekly/monthly wages.

Not sure which thread I should reply to, you have two of them (doesn't Gamedev.net have any mechanisms to prevent double-threads?) but I'll just reply in this one. A mod/admin might see this and decides to move this post later.

From what I see in the Hobbyist Projects section of Classifieds, it's mostly pay-by-milestones. So you complete a demo, go for a Kickstarter campaign, and pay afterwards, or pay after the game makes money. In this case, it's usually profit-sharing instead of the usual weekly/monthly wages.

I didn't make two threads although the forum did time out on me and I refreshed my browser so it's quite possible two were made--if so it was quite unintentional.

Anyway--OK pay by milestones; what do you think is a fair wage? I guess it would depend on the milestones and the number of them.

Like for example, if it were broken into the following steps:

Milestone1 : Proto build with basic features: isometric drawing, unit animation, terrain height, field rotation, zooming in/out, unit customizations, class /experience /equipment tables, etc

Milestone2 : MP alpha with map editor

Milestone3 : MP alpha with map editor, with AI, with army editor

Milestone4 : MP alpha with map editor, with AI, with army editor, with replays

Milestone5 : MP alpha with map editor, with AI,with army editor, with replays, with saves

Milestone6 : MP beta with map editor, with AI,with army editor,, with replays, with saves

Milestone7 : MP final and SP alpha with campaign editor (story scripting, event scripting like chests with items)

Milestone8 : MP final and SP beta with campaign editor (monster units, monster AI, victory/loss conditions)

Milestone9 : MP final and SP final with campaign editor

We really can't tell you what is a fair wage because this is down to the individual programmer as to how much they want. You need to let them name a price. If it is too much then keep looking.

Also Why are you considering Love2D, C or Java?

Isn't this a decision for the programmer to make?

We really can't tell you what is a fair wage because this is down to the individual programmer as to how much they want. You need to let them name a price. If it is too much then keep looking.

Also Why are you considering Love2D, C or Java?

Isn't this a decision for the programmer to make?

I'm considering Love2D, C, and Java because I actually can follow that code and maybe even help somewhat.

I know HOW to program, I'm just not good enough to write a game--I've tried. I can put code together but I'm not creative enough, at least in regards to programming, to solve the problems I need to sove. I can write a database and an interactive website just fine, need to find a position of a mouse in an isometric grid? no idea. I posted that order because I know Lua best, C OK enough to follow along what's happening, and java worst. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a certain programming framework and/or language.

what do you think is a fair wage?

"Wage" is the wrong word. Wages only apply to full-time hourly employees. You're talking about hiring a contractor.
Contractors have to charge more than what they would get in wages, since they have to cover expenses for doing business, health insurance, and taxes.
In general, the Game Industry Salary Survey can give you an idea of how much game programmers are paid as full-time salaried employees. You can take those numbers and convert them to hours as a starting point for figuring out what you need to know.
When you're ready to hire someone, you can use this website's Classifieds section.

A wage is any type of financial compensation for each completed task, hourly or daily rate, or based on a measured quantity of work--and is commonly used to denote any kind of employee compensation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage ).

Thanks for the names of the resources, hopefully that will help me figure things out.

I myself have been trying to complete a game for some time (years), but I always seem to want to do everything myself, but then I end up not finishing anything. It frustrates me. So I took a step back and decided to simplify everything so that I can actually have a chance to complete something. I think that this is what you should do. Think about the fact that the game you want to make is requiring you to hire a programmer. So what you've already decided is that your project is already too much for you. Maybe think about putting your current game idea aside for now and trying to work on a smaller game that you can actually make on your own. You have to understand that Indie games are not about game content , but rather about the game play itself. Look at Flappy Bird for instance. Only one level, and one objective, don't fly into anything. This is the route I'm going, i'm keeping it simple. My reason for this is that if I can make some income from a small game (mobile type) then I can use that money to invest in another bigger project and also get some experience along the way. I'm willing to work with you to make a game in what ever programming language you want, but if we work together lets start small and then go after a big project.

Buster2000, on 10 Jun 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

We really can't tell you what is a fair wage because this is down to the individual programmer as to how much they want. You need to let them name a price. If it is too much then keep looking.

Also Why are you considering Love2D, C or Java?

Isn't this a decision for the programmer to make?



I'm considering Love2D, C, and Java because I actually can follow that code and maybe even help somewhat.

I know HOW to program, I'm just not good enough to write a game--I've tried. I can put code together but I'm not creative enough, at least in regards to programming, to solve the problems I need to sove. I can write a database and an interactive website just fine, need to find a position of a mouse in an isometric grid? no idea. I posted that order because I know Lua best, C OK enough to follow along what's happening, and java worst. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a certain programming framework and/or language.

What you consider "helping out" a lot of contractors may consider a hinderance. I have worked on projects before where designers have waited till everybody leaves work and then past some tutorial code into a manu system because they think it looks snazzy. If you want to hire somebody then just forget about suggesting technology and just concentrate on hiring somebody who can make a game. You may find somebody who can get the job done in Unity or cocos2d-x or GameMaker or some other technology right away instead of spending months trying to find somebody who wants to be constricted by the technology that you have chosen for no real reason.

If you are the designer and artist but under your own admission are not quite good enough to code a game then what you are basically looking for is a tech lead, which means whoever you hire is going to have to call the shots when it comes to chosing a coding frame work. Also while the contract fees may seem scary it is not unusual for contractors to work for lower fees if they see a good game idea and no limitations as to how it is developed.

As far as milestones are concerned, NEVER write something as vague as "Alpha".

Alpha and Beta are different things to everyone and even something like "content complete" is up for interpretation.

Best contracts I've signed (and the ones that led to the fewest amount of problems) were those that explained their definitions of "Done" in bullet points.

Milestone (1)

- "X Feature completed, fully functional and fully implemented, some issues of Type A may remain" (Type A issue is defined elsewhere).

- "X Feature completed, fully functional and fully implemented, some issues of Type A may remain" (Type A issue is defined elsewhere).

- "X Feature completed, fully functional and fully implemented, some issues of Type A may remain" (Type A issue is defined elsewhere).

- "X Feature completed, fully functional and fully implemented, some issues of Type A may remain" (Type A issue is defined elsewhere).

- "Y Feature prototyped, complete flow operable, but some functionalities are missing. Issues of Type C are all resolved (Type C issue is defined elsewhere).

Etc.