Questions about making a game and a general idea

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32 comments, last by Adam Moore 9 years, 7 months ago

Here is the story I came up with for the game. It is just a brief synopsis, but tell me if it makes sense. And of course, any feedback or observations you might be able to add are well taken and useful, so please, let me know.

From a game design standpoint I think it would be more beneficial to get feedback on the differences between the classes -- what makes a Rune Sage mechanically different from a Monster Slayer or Spell Warrior? -- and the way this magic actually functions in game rather than the specifics of the story. I'm much more interested in what effects the player's alignment has on gameplay rather than the fact that players can align with the evil Cascaval.

I want to know how the spells look, how the spells are cast, how they impact the world, how they can be countered/mitigated, and who can use them. You are making a game about sorcerers, so I think creating a sorcery system that is thematic and fun is more important than the specific who's-its and what's-its of a detailed backstory.

Think of Call of Duty... I don't know much about the story, but I sure know the game mechanics of shooting things are well defined and developed, which supports any story about shooting things. (I'm not a CoD player, so this example may be off) Make a great magic system that any story that focuses on magic will work with.

Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion. Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.

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As GoCatGo said, from a game design point of view the story is not really important. Knowing the context is good enough (who, what, where, when, why)

The rest would rather belong in the writing section of the forum :)

(I might as well give my opinion on the story. No offense, but it seems to be a boring Manichean story with a possible face-heel turn at the end. And using a bad guy who is a bad guy because he do bad thing is a trap you can easily fall (event though here I don't have all the story). I like the fact that you added centaurs and fairy as playable races, if correctly used it can bring some freshness to an overused fantasy setting. But it should be sufficient for non-heavily-driven game. If you just want a simple setting it should be enough.)

Okay, I understand what you are both say...I think. Throughout the game, the player will have to make various choices, and do various interactions with important NPCs and even unimportant NPCs who maybe don't have a part in the main story, but their opinion adds to the public opinion of the school. It is very much like a Fable sort of making choices and being judged by those choices. Like a player might be given a choice to either help or hinder a fellow student. If the player chooses to help, the NPC will have a good opinion of a player. If they choose not to help, the NPC will have a bad opinion. Also if a player aids an NPC who is known to be wicked, that will take them more to the evil side of the meter or scale as well. I picture it like this, (which is very mich like Fable, lol) evil----------Neutral----------Good. A player starts out at neutral and goes either right, toward good, or left toward evil. Killing neutral animals/creatures (creatures that do not attack you unless provoked, will also lean toward evil. So I guess it all depends on how the player wants to play. This will be an interesting system to implement, but it should be an interesting sort of thing to add to the game, if it can indeed be implemented. Spell Warriors and Monster Slayers use mostly offensive spells, meaning that their attack damage made by spells is more potent. However this puts them at a defensive disadvantage. A Rune Sage, on the other hand, can use both offensive and defensive spells equally as well. The Beast Master and Plant Wrangler are also good at defensive/ offensive magic. Therefore, based on what class you choose, you will have different spells available to you. And a Charms Master is mostly defensive magic. Say that a Rune Sage is in a battle. He would have to choose from his store of rune-carved tablets to choose if he wants to cast defensive or offensive magic. If he chooses the water tablet, that is mostly healing magic with life-drops and such, but they would also have the Tsunami spell available to them, which damages the enemy with a massive wave of water. If he were to use the Earth rune, he would have "stone protector", but he would also have "earthquake" which would make the earth rumble and would damage enemies. Also certain races will be more suitable to certain classes. An Elf may make a better Rune Sage while a Centaur might make a better Spell Warrior, or Monster Slayer.Anyway, I hope that that all makes sense. There will be a twist to the story. In the end, the crystal turns out to be in some way attached to a very special person. Interacting with the story and finding out more about this person and her people will be the meat of the story. In the end, I do want the game play to be about player choices. However that might be easier said than done.

(First and a little off subject, and sorry for bringing this, but a little formating is always appreciated :) )

I have few more questions :

1 - Moral orientation : in what their orientation affect the game? Does that affect only the story? Does the people in school will give ou free stuf if your are good? Does it restrain the people you can add to your party?

2 - Five classes, can they be categorized like following :

Spell Warriors (DPS)
Monster Slayers (DPS)
Rune Sage (All around)
Beast Master (All around)
Plant Wrangler (All around)
Charms Master (Tank?)

Finally, most of your class have both offensive and defensive power and finally seems identical. Why should I choose the Spell Warrior over the Monster slayer? Is there only there skill set which is different? Does they have special mechanism?

The rune mage system would be most interesting (in my opinion) if the tablet will give him either offensive power and boost, or defensive power and boost, not both. With what you describe, the only point in switching tablet is to match the enemies' element, right? (fire vs water, etc...)

(Formatting would definitely help my understanding as well!)

I have two main suggestions:

  1. Find an extensive guide for a game you enjoy or know well (Fable seems to be a favorite of yours). Study it to see how the actual game mechanics work. You seem stuck in thinking that game design is simply saying "You cast a spell and have the choice to be good or evil!" You need a large dose of spreadsheets and formulas to design an RPG. You are missing meat in this sandwich -- so far you've only got a topping or two and a recipe for sauce.
  2. This opinion (like all opinions) is entire subjective, but... Good/Neutral/Evil morality systems are so BioWare 2003. They offer very little to pique my interest and I consider myself to be a very typical (if not jaded) gamer. It tends to default to an obvious Good vs. Bad path with no real story options beyond being Captain Nice or Kommisar Jerkface. Find a more meaningful way for in-game choices to have in-game consequences.

I encourage you to seek story advice in the appropriate places and to make hard choices on actual design and mechanics for your game here. I'd be happy to provide templates or examples to you if you would find them helpful.

Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion. Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.

So the old morality system is old news? Ah so it goes. GoCatGo, if you can provide any sort of guidance, that would be fabulous. I agree with you that the story doesn't matter here and mechanics are more important, as they are what makes the game, or at least 60% of it. I will look at my guide for LOTRO when I find the time, and maybe my guide for WOW as well. I have never had to deal with mechanics before, but anything you can offer would be most welcome if you have links, templates or whatever. Right now I am writing out a rather length document by hand, which includes some of the stuff you are talking about, but at present it is only a written document, and I will have to find time to actually write it out (old writing habit of writing everything out longhand).

I have been told of my formatting problems before, so I assume that it is really annoying to read the block of text (sorry), but I am on my way to learning, so please have patience with me as muddle through everything. Maybe adding the morality things is not a good idea, as it would just mean that either public opinion says you are either bad or good. While I could probably weave in consequences, it might be more trouble than it's worth.

Also I was thinking that it would go something like this

Spell Warrior (tank)

Monster Slayer (DPS)

Charms Master (Healer?)

[rune Sage, Beast Master, Plant Wrangler] (All around)

Or at least that is what I am thinking, but I will have to go back and look at the exact descriptions that I decided on again.

So here's what I think I will do. I will try and find time and type out what I have thus far (no story), and I will try and put it up here under files or something. But please keep it going. Anything, any advice, anything, would be most welcome. Thank you for your help thus far!!

So the old morality system is old news? Ah so it goes.

I do not really agree (but, it's also an opinion, so ^^') In term of morality choice maybe good versus evil is outdated (what is good for you may be bad for other) but instead maybe having a kind of faction-based morality. For exemple, if you do something to help the forest (you hippi!) then you will gain some point in the drudic circle, if you don't (you capitalist!) you will gain point in the Mecamage corporation. By progressing on one or the other "faction" will give you bonus, equipment, and may influence the story.

An other solution would be achievement bonus. If you choose to free the unicorn you will have a permanent bonus of +1 in magic, but if you choose to eat it, you will have a permanent bonus of +1 in Strength. And some NPC will respond differently depending on your achivement.

I have never had to deal with mechanics before, but anything you can offer would be most welcome if you have links, templates or whatever.

If you want document on game design there is the excellent book : http://artofgamedesign.com/book/
There is also a lot of topic on this forum where people ask how to start, and the answers are generaly quite good :)


A type of online game that often goes unmentioned is what is called a 'villiage game' -- a term mostly-inspired by the first few successful examples of what is, essentially, a small-scale MMO.

Now, any game -- single player offline or , multi/villiage/massively-online -- is a huge undertaking, but there are a number of these small-scale MMO 'villiage games' that have been successfully running for years. No one's getting fabulously wealthy from them, but they're making a living. Villiage games are typified by embracing their modest player base (typically between 1000-10000 active subscriptions, and a few hundred to a couple thousand online players), rather than designing for mass-market like WOW. Players appreciate the more-intimate setting and community, and the devs typically provide a framework for the universe but incorporate community feedback seriously -- in a lot of ways, you can think of it as a smaller, more democratic MMORPG. In return, the player base, although small, tends to be extremely loyal, and generally lacking in griefing or other misbehavior. Most of these games are simpler in nature than WOW, or what you seem to describe, though -- many are 2D even -- but you can't expect to pay for modern AAA content on the backs of only a few thousand subscriptions.
Yeah, I make these (never heard of "village game" term but it perfectly describes it in my opinion :D) The funny thing is the marketing/players numbers, it seems that there is a predefined number of players these games have (500 daily players being the upper limit (at the moment of writing - 2014)) and I have instance of clans/groups of players joining "because there are no players in that game so we can claim it" :) The community dynamics definitely is crazy there and indeed feels like one of a tribe.

Stellar Monarch (4X, turn based, released): GDN forum topic - Twitter - Facebook - YouTube


I have never had to deal with mechanics before, but anything you can offer would be most welcome if you have links, templates or whatever.

I, like many people here, would be happy to point you in the right direction. Take nothing I might suggest as a hard-and-fast law, though -- most of it is very much what works well for me and my projects. I'm constantly touting the virtues of Machinations:

http://www.jorisdormans.nl/machinations/

and this document outlining RPG design patterns:

http://www.autzones.com/din6000/textes/semaine13/Kirk%282005%29.pdf

The Art of Game Design (http://artofgamedesign.com/), as suggested by Navezof, is indeed a MUST. No delay, just read it.


Maybe adding the morality things is not a good idea,

I may have been too harsh on what you wrote -- it is certainly a fine idea, but the difference between it turning out ::blah:: or AWESOME! in-game is how you implement it. If your morality is just a scale with EVIL on the left an GOOD on the right, set by a series of binary choices, I believe you might be in blah range. Again, my opinion. But with some elbow grease you can turn it into something enjoyable that supports the story you are telling.

You're in the right place to learn this stuff. Kudos for taking the time to read critical feedback and following up on the information -- that's a great sign that you might bring this game across the finish line! I will share anything I know with you. The more specific the question, the more likely you'll get the help you need from this community.

Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion. Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.

Okay, thank you very much for sharing. I also saw somewhere here an example of a design document. I will look at that as well. While it might not work exactly for what I am trying to do, it could be used for a basic template. I will have to wait to get the book, because literally no money, but the other one you shared that's online will be useful. That's interesting the thought of not having a morality gauge, but an affect to attributes instead, which could definitely work!! Plus in some way, it makes more sense, lol... Anyway I am going to try and find some time to do some typing soon. Until then, I will be writing diligently in the old notebook. But it's hard to draw things in the notebook, as I am hardly an artist.

Anyway, thank you so much for your help. Anything else you can add would be most welcome. I need all the help I can get.

P.S. Acharis, you are working on a medieval sim? So wish I could have been in on that, lol. Crazy history major here. Anyway, thanks.

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