Complete game tut's
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Hey guys...
I have been playing around with OpenGL and Direct3d for a couple of days, and I think I am going to go for OpenGL. I have some experience with C although nothing solid. My current level is at the stage where I can understand a basic Win32 handler and message loop program.
The reason why I am telling you this?
I have stumbled across the Nehe site and decided to work (play?)my way through the tutorials and see how far I can take it (before my brain explodes)....Ok, so you do the first couple of lessons and learn how to get a few primitives setup on screen, you do a few more, and learn about texturing and some lighting...My question...How do you go about putting all this stuff together into even a basic game (even something as simple as Pong etc)....I may know how to texture a .bmp and import a model, but how do you implement any of this into anything useful.
Is it a case of as I learn to do each of these tutorials, I will pick up bits of knowledge which I can bring together to build a game? I dont know, hehe, its not the tutorials, they seem great and the site a god-send...but its the same deal with the OpenGL game programming book...the chapters take you through all these seperate projects but with nothing to solidify your knowledge..unless its just me.
Obvioulsy I dont expect a direct answer, however if you guys could possibly give me some advice to put me on the right track, maybee there is some site that I have missed that takes you through a basic game?
...now im off to bed.
Have fun guys.
Edited by - Smokingkipper on November 4, 2001 6:47:53 PM
This is exactly my point: Newbies to game programming can find tutorials on anything except how to actually make a game!!!
Sorry to label you a newbie smokingkipper but I don''t mean anything bad by it...
I think one of the first things I would like to do is congratulate you on your choice of 3d rendering API''s
(BTW don''t forget to look up OpenAL and SDL to ditch Micro$hit altogether and develop portable code *g*)
The second thing I would like to say is - you have a long, long road ahead of you and there are several routes you can take to attain that goal of game programming god (I think we can all safely say it''s a long road!!!), but whichever route you take the journey will be fun and interesting with lots and lots and -lots- of information to take in *g*
Your basic goal in game programming is this: A game is a loop, a verrrrry long loop, the game starts, data is loaded into memory for high-speed access, the main game loop begins, stuff happens using a series of logic gates (if this then this or this blah...), the user presses keys and AI is used to think of stuff and all kindsa great stuff happens, then the loop is executed again Now in every game there is -bound- to be some code which is used and re-used over and over again throughout the game, so you put those bits and bobs into functions (Such as playSound, or printText or whatever). Now the trick is learning what is a game engine, what does it do, and why bother? The game is the if and when and where, the game engine is the how. You want to play a sound? The engine should handle it. You want to render a level made in your custom map editor? The engine should handle it. In fact the game itself might well be quite sparsely dispersed with short lines of code which instruct your game engine to do something. How is this all achieved? How do you think it is achieved? The beauty of it all is that there is no set way to achieve it, you write in all the stuff yourself! I mean yeah, if you want to get started there''s certainly enough literature on the net! Source code to full 3d game engine''s out there! In fact I''m releasing one (Hopefully!) if/when my entry it posted for the nehe compo!
Whatever happens I hope this info helps you somewhat
Sorry to label you a newbie smokingkipper but I don''t mean anything bad by it...
I think one of the first things I would like to do is congratulate you on your choice of 3d rendering API''s
(BTW don''t forget to look up OpenAL and SDL to ditch Micro$hit altogether and develop portable code *g*)The second thing I would like to say is - you have a long, long road ahead of you and there are several routes you can take to attain that goal of game programming god (I think we can all safely say it''s a long road!!!), but whichever route you take the journey will be fun and interesting with lots and lots and -lots- of information to take in *g*
Your basic goal in game programming is this: A game is a loop, a verrrrry long loop, the game starts, data is loaded into memory for high-speed access, the main game loop begins, stuff happens using a series of logic gates (if this then this or this blah...), the user presses keys and AI is used to think of stuff and all kindsa great stuff happens, then the loop is executed again
Now in every game there is -bound- to be some code which is used and re-used over and over again throughout the game, so you put those bits and bobs into functions (Such as playSound, or printText or whatever). Now the trick is learning what is a game engine, what does it do, and why bother? The game is the if and when and where, the game engine is the how. You want to play a sound? The engine should handle it. You want to render a level made in your custom map editor? The engine should handle it. In fact the game itself might well be quite sparsely dispersed with short lines of code which instruct your game engine to do something. How is this all achieved? How do you think it is achieved? The beauty of it all is that there is no set way to achieve it, you write in all the stuff yourself! I mean yeah, if you want to get started there''s certainly enough literature on the net! Source code to full 3d game engine''s out there! In fact I''m releasing one (Hopefully!) if/when my entry it posted for the nehe compo!Whatever happens I hope this info helps you somewhat
Well assuming your programming for Windows since you mentioned the Win32 API, you should probably pick up the book "OpenGL Game Programming" by Kevin Hawkins and Dave Astle. It teaches you how to make an engine and a small game. It teaches you OpenGL for graphics, Direct Input for Input, and Direct Sound for Sound. It teaches mostly everything NeHe teaches AND how to make a game..
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Heh, what do you expect?
That game designers will come to NeHe and ask him to post tutorials of how to create game engine?
Each game engine is unique as well as techniques for writing sound, graphics etc. Why was Half-Life so successeful? Because nobody has done same thing before!
So, it does applies to every game programmer, designer etc... Find your own way to do games, only by going that way you''ll make something different from others.
If you read someone''s notes, after some time you forget that they''re someone''s else''s and you think they are yours.
So, try something new!
That game designers will come to NeHe and ask him to post tutorials of how to create game engine?
Each game engine is unique as well as techniques for writing sound, graphics etc. Why was Half-Life so successeful? Because nobody has done same thing before!
So, it does applies to every game programmer, designer etc... Find your own way to do games, only by going that way you''ll make something different from others.
If you read someone''s notes, after some time you forget that they''re someone''s else''s and you think they are yours.
So, try something new!
I looked extensively at the crappy space invaders code from the duke. Basically I used Shining Knight''s stuff for rendering and input and i looked at the classes and framework of crappy si to see how to do simple ai and use linked lists in the game.
right now i have enemies falling down from the sky and I can shoot them
The game I''m trying to make is SWOOP a classic C64 game. Anybody knows it?
Airo
right now i have enemies falling down from the sky and I can shoot them
The game I''m trying to make is SWOOP a classic C64 game. Anybody knows it?
Airo
"Why was Half-Life so successeful? Because nobody has done same thing before!"
I wouldn''t say that... I mean the Q2 engine wasn''t really that heavily modified for HL... So they wrote a skeletal animation system for the models and used a radiosity engine to render the lightmaps for the levels - big whoop! Well ok I didn''t write the HL engine, I can''t be sure how heavily they modified it...
What I think really made Half-Life was the story because that my friend had never been done before HL!
Sorry - just wanted to make a point *g* A good game engine does not make a decent game! A good game makes a good game! Ok the Quake series of games has been very popular, but I bet most money was made from the games that use the Quake engine and don''t just have a (crap) storyline tacked on top!
I wouldn''t say that... I mean the Q2 engine wasn''t really that heavily modified for HL... So they wrote a skeletal animation system for the models and used a radiosity engine to render the lightmaps for the levels - big whoop! Well ok I didn''t write the HL engine, I can''t be sure how heavily they modified it...
What I think really made Half-Life was the story because that my friend had never been done before HL!
Sorry - just wanted to make a point *g* A good game engine does not make a decent game! A good game makes a good game! Ok the Quake series of games has been very popular, but I bet most money was made from the games that use the Quake engine and don''t just have a (crap) storyline tacked on top!
Author
Thanks for the help guys, its a great source of encouragment to know there are other people in the same boat so to speak.
(how the hell did ppl manage before the internet ---this brings me to another question....do you not think that there is sometimes TOO much info out there and you keep jumping from one thing to the next....maybee before the net was amoung us, you managed to find a couple of books and LEARNT them inside out, because thats all ya had?...just a thought....and this by no means that im complaining about too much info..lol)
Ok, two things...I have ordered a c++ ref manual and have just recieved the OpenGl game programming book...also I have enrolled on both the C++ and OpenGL courses at GameInstitute, added to that around 5 hours a day playing around with code (and lots of coffee), the idea is that I spend so much cash on books and commit so much time to this thing that I tell myself that there is NO WAY I can give up...I also rang around a few univercitys today, for next year.
Anyway...im gonna go on a code hunt around the net and see what I can dig up...lol, I may even get a small ''diary of the newbie'' site, posting my progress.
Hehe, well of to work...cya guys...have fun!
"Smoke me a kipper, I''''ll be back for breakfast"
A.J.Rimmer, Red Dwarf
(how the hell did ppl manage before the internet ---this brings me to another question....do you not think that there is sometimes TOO much info out there and you keep jumping from one thing to the next....maybee before the net was amoung us, you managed to find a couple of books and LEARNT them inside out, because thats all ya had?...just a thought....and this by no means that im complaining about too much info..lol)
Ok, two things...I have ordered a c++ ref manual and have just recieved the OpenGl game programming book...also I have enrolled on both the C++ and OpenGL courses at GameInstitute, added to that around 5 hours a day playing around with code (and lots of coffee), the idea is that I spend so much cash on books and commit so much time to this thing that I tell myself that there is NO WAY I can give up...I also rang around a few univercitys today, for next year.
Anyway...im gonna go on a code hunt around the net and see what I can dig up...lol, I may even get a small ''diary of the newbie'' site, posting my progress.
Hehe, well of to work...cya guys...have fun!
"Smoke me a kipper, I''''ll be back for breakfast"
A.J.Rimmer, Red Dwarf
IMHO, if you finish reading all the first 28 tutorials you''ll know what is basically possible in Opengl. All you have to do then is put all of it together in a way that you want, write your algorithms and link them with the graphics side. A simple game is really easy to make once reading the tutorials.
I dont think a game engine tutorial is going to help anyone, i mean, there are so many different ways of making an engine, and if you really want to just rip off someone elses code to make a game because you dont understand the stuff the author put into the code (and trust me, it will most definitely happen with alot of you), then you may has well just download some of the many opensource engines and make a game from those.
Once someone shows you a way to make an engine, you''ll loose sight of what is really possible, and only gain sight of someone elses perspectives.
I dont think a game engine tutorial is going to help anyone, i mean, there are so many different ways of making an engine, and if you really want to just rip off someone elses code to make a game because you dont understand the stuff the author put into the code (and trust me, it will most definitely happen with alot of you), then you may has well just download some of the many opensource engines and make a game from those.
Once someone shows you a way to make an engine, you''ll loose sight of what is really possible, and only gain sight of someone elses perspectives.
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