I don't really see this as a problem. Not every beginner has the same project in mind, and not every beginner will ask the same questions. Also, an active conversation is more engaging and more effective for many than reading a FAQ. If the goal of For Beginners is to connect beginners with experienced developers /who want to help them/, and other learners who can help each other, then we should encourage dialog, not discourage it.
If you do not fall into the category of experienced developer who wants to help beginners, then filterthe forum from your hot topics list and don't go into the forum. Simple as that.
I'm Getting Sick of The Same Posts Over and Over
Author
I just had a thought: Mentors!
What if older members of the community (Crossbones+) could opt-in to become "Mentors". New members posts would have to be approved by a "mentor", who would have to do a quick review of the new members post before it was made public. The "mentors" would be able to send them a PM answering their question (if it was something like "What programming language should I use"), and the For beginners section wouldn't be flooded with these questions over and over again.
What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...
-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...
-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area
-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.
-> this doesn't make any sense.
Author
What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...
-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...
-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area
-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.
-> this doesn't make any sense.
Except I thought beginners were incapable of figuring out what language to use from the old posts. At least, that's what you guys have been saying.
Actually....this idea sounds rather interesting. It'd defiantly help cut down on the amount of redundancy that crops up from most beginners.I just had a thought: Mentors!
What if older members of the community (Crossbones+) could opt-in to become "Mentors". New members posts would have to be approved by a "mentor", who would have to do a quick review of the new members post before it was made public. The "mentors" would be able to send them a PM answering their question (if it was something like "What programming language should I use"), and the For beginners section wouldn't be flooded with these questions over and over again.
However their would have to be some limits, such that only this level of moderation occurs to members that are very new(less than 72 hours would probably be a good barrier). the system should not hide these posts if they are easily solved, but instead auto-post the thread/"mentor" response into a mega sticky thread in the beginner forum so that all of the information can be publicly viewed. and if no one responds to one of these posts within say 4-6 hours(or if a "mentor" says it's OK to post this.) it should be auto-posted. at least this is my opinion of how it could appropriately work.
in short, the mentor has no moderation control over the thread, they simply help facilitate a faster/more appropriate response.
What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...
as far as i'm aware this is still the status, but truthfully i suspect if you pm any mod saying you'd like to contribute to the forum by being a cross-bone member, they'd gladly make you into one.
-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...
I disagree, in no way would it be moderating, in my opinion all the information should still be publicly visible, it'd just be emplacing a potential delay on the poster.-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.
I disagree with the idea that the moderators are the only site frequenters. plenty of people lurk this site daily, and many of us sit in chat regularly.-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.
also, their are a crap ton of moderators whom no longer seem to be apart of this site. just look at the listed moderator for the lounge: http://www.gamedev.net/user/13498-ravuya/ last active over a year ago now.
a sub-forum might be a decent way for this to work, but in theory all posts should still become publicly visible, it's just this sub-forum would allow filtering redundant/unrealistic posts into a mega-thread that doesn't cause other posts to fall down in visibility because someone once again came in with a "where do i start?" "what language should i use", etc. the beginner forum is practical in terms of beginner level questions, but should it really be flooded with trivial questions that have been asked/answered a billion times. their's a major beginner level difference between a question like "how do i move a paddle in pong?" and "what language should i choose?" both of these questions are beginner level, and yes, both have been answered a bunch of times. but one is a specific problem to programming.-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area
edit: as of this post, there are 6 posts on the first page of for beginners that in my opinion would fall under this mentor system:
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659100-i-want-to-make-a-prototype-game/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659040-moba-where-to-start-feedback-appreciated/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659076-where-to-start-for-life-simulation-game/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/658625-i-want-to-learn-to-make-games-what-is-my-path/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659240-getting-started-from-almost-complete-scratch/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659094-game-engine-that-will-meet-my-requirements/
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions
What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?
Edit:
I also think that this thread is a little rich, given that the OP has this thread, followed by this other thread, within his first 10 threads on the forum.
I usually wouldn't stoop to digging through a user's ancient posting history, but I think this nicely demonstrates the truism that "we were all beginners at some point", and on the basis of that, we probably shouldn't try and ruin it for the next guy.
Author
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions
What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?
Edit:
I also think that this thread is a little rich, given that the OP has this thread, followed by this other thread, within his first 10 threads on the forum.
I usually wouldn't stoop to digging through a user's ancient posting history, but I think this nicely demonstrates the truism that "we were all beginners at some point", and on the basis of that, we probably shouldn't try and ruin it for the next guy.
Yes, I fully agree that I was a beginner once. And I wholeheartedly feel that I would have walked away feeling that I'd got better answers with the proposed system implemented.
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions
What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?
It was my freaking point. This system is already virtually there. I was against this. God. Way to read and then lash at the only person highlighting the fact for the likes of you.
Author
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions
What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?
It was my freaking point. This system is already virtually there. I was against this. God. Way to read and then lash at the only person highlighting the fact for the likes of you.
You're completely missing the point of the whole system.
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...
as far as i'm aware this is still the status, but truthfully i suspect if you pm any mod saying you'd like to contribute to the forum by being a cross-bone member, they'd gladly make you into one.
How is begging for a decorative title after your name "contributing"?
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.
I disagree, in no way would it be moderating, in my opinion all the information should still be publicly visible, it'd just be emplacing a potential delay on the poster.
"I disagree your view posted hours ago accurately describes this system I just made up and typed in this very same post" No, quite surprisingly I was commenting on OPs proposition that actually existed by the time I posted.
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.
I disagree with the idea that the moderators are the only site frequenters. plenty of people lurk this site daily, and many of us sit in chat regularly.
I didn't state that frequenters were explicitly moderators. By moderators I was referring to OPs mentoring system moderators, which would have been obvious if you read my previous sentences that you quoted just above.
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area
a sub-forum might be a decent way for this to work
Wow, look at you! Despite all the stumbling and getting lost you still arrive where I was leading you. We have the beginners-subforum already where the "problem" is more or less contained with adequate results/effort ratio.
You're completely missing the point of the whole system.
You're suggesting:
- make current "for beginners" subforum only visible to some group of "sub-moderators" (I'm not going to use the word mentor, I don't find it accurate in the system you describe) making it some kind of "secret forum"
- make a new "for proper beginners" subforum that is identical to the above closed subforum where proper posts are moved
- beginners only see the good posts on the "for proper beginners" subforum and aren't exposed to the trash their kind is responsible of (that they really need to see)
- most people opt to become "sub-moderators" so they can see and act on the posts on the exciting "secret forum"! and will be exposed to the trash. Everybody wants to see them and nobody wants to try to answer them.
=> duplicate beginner forums, new fuzzy sub-moderator group to manage and for what? So that beginners will be spared from the unwanted content while only the most experienced selected few carry the burden to single handedly answer every iteration of spam type posts by PM. Because the noobs can't even see that certain stuff like programming language gets asked a lot they will ask it a lot more. Who's up?
This topic is closed to new replies.
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