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JY

Does a new game have to be state of the art?

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JY    289
I know that wizzy 3D games are all the rage at the moment (a few too many of them if you ask me) but what do you guys think of the good old 2D platform games? I personally think that some of the games on the old Spectrum and Amiga have much more playability than some new games. Games like Lemmings and Worms are absolute classics (IMHO), why aren''t more games based on gameplay instead of just flashy graphics? My games programming is limited and it''s something I would like to get back into. I''ve spent too long in the commercial arena - but I want to know the general consensus on the style of game that is most popular. I was thinking of easing myself in by developing a game in the style of Lemmings or something similar. I prefer the brain-challenge of those kind of games as opposed to just shooting things. So, supposing I hope to get this game published, do you still think there is a market for games like this?

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CGalyon    122
New games do not have to be "state-of-the-art." You do want your game to appear clean, well-ordered, easily understandable and basically nice looking, but state of the art (a.k.a. 3d) is certainly not a must.

However, there is no such thing as a perfect blanket statement. It depends a lot on what genre it is and for what system it is developed. If you''re making an RPG there are a myriad of acceptable media formats ranging from 3d to 2d tile-based.

If you''re especially concerned about your chances of getting the game published then you may want to consider developing for the GameBoy Color, the PSX, the PC or the GameBoy Advance. These are more "tolerant" of older looking graphics. The PS2, X-box and GameCube seem, at the moment, to be very caught up in flashy appearances.

Personally, I''ve seen too many flashy games totally devoid of substance to think anything of it when I see statements about how 3d a game will be.

Charles Galyon

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Tazar    122
You think great I love old arcade games and think people like them too I''m just learning how to do 3D stuff but I love aracde stuff so please make a game

Tazar The Demon 0\.,.,./0

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MirekCz    132
yup.. personally I know way more 2D games that I like very much then 3D ones... And there are some nice little shareware titles around which are great fun to play... and they rarely have very good graphics (althrought it shouldn''t be poor - looking like a c64 game...

With best regards,
Mirek Czerwiñski
http://kris.top.pl/~kherin/

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
i think the old spectrum was great and i have a emulator and the
best game ever made which is "chuckie egg"

if u like 2d then go ahead and make your game besides its your project

if u make a chuckie egg game post it here so i can get it

thank you

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Thanks for the feedback guys, so quick too!

I know what you mean Charles about no perfect blanket statement - different genres need different methods. I was just wondering really if there was still a market for old-school games.

If I go to a game shop there are dozens of Quake rip-offs and a few war strategy games and that''s about it. I was wondering if it was because there was no market, or just nobody developing the kind of game I''m talking about.

Thanks the encouragement too Tazar, I''m gonna have to develop that game now

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JY    289
Not sure why my name didn''t come up on that post? Oh well.

Chuckie Egg definitely was one of the all time classics, along with Manic Miner. I''ve always wanted somebody (like Codemasters) to release all their old speccy games, but jazzed up a bit.

So I guess I can safely say that for real games, gameplay is much better than flashy graphics. Kids these days have it all on a plate huh?

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GalaxyQuest    122
2D is fun...until you play Operation Flashpoint! Anyways, of course you should work out a game in 2d or whatever is easier if you have never designed or programmed a game before.

Oh, and the comment about there being too many 3d games is a little lame, since 3d is what we have been striving for for oh about 20 years...give me a break.

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CGalyon    122
I don''t think anyone is saying that there are too many 3d games, only that the focus lately seems to be more in making a game LOOK good rather than PLAY well. Game play, story, character development (when applicable) are, in my opinion, more important than just making the latest graphics. There are some games in which graphics really ARE the most important thing. In a racing game graphics are extremely important, about the same as play control/dynamics.

Anyway, I think my point is clear: its not all about graphics.

Charles Galyon

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Symphonic    313
Look at The Lost Vikings (1 and 2).

Did you all know that these games were made by the Blizzard team? Before they became Blizzard, they were called Silicon and Synapse, and when they wanted to release Warcraft, they changed publishers to get an all-PC audience. When changing publishers they changed their name too.

On the debate of 2D vs. 3D, I''ll bring up Blizzard again, in saying that not until next year (2002) will they have released a 3D game, and they have more awards than most people can shake a stick at.

I really want to see a neato Side scrolling action game that uses mouse and keyboard (aim with mouse, move with keyboard).


NATO = North American Terrorist Organization

George D. Filiotis

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by Symphonic
I really want to see a neato Side scrolling action game that uses mouse and keyboard (aim with mouse, move with keyboard).

search the web for "abuse" i think you will like it. it is free and open source (the guys who wrote it didn''t want someone else to own the rights when their company sold out, so they gave it away to the internet community at large)...

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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JY    289
"Oh, and the comment about there being too many 3d games is a little lame, since 3d is what we have been striving for for oh about 20 years...give me a break."

Yes, I know that it''s a great advance in ''technology'' but the point I''m making is that is doesn''t necessarily make a GREAT game. OF was great until it crashed every time I completed a certain level (then I lost interest) and it''s a good example of intelligent gameplay.

But what I''m saying is; it doesn''t have to be all singing all dancing graphics to produce a good game? It''s only my opinion that there are too many games that use a known 3D engine (Half Life for example) and create a mediocre game.

I didn''t mean to start a debate about 2D/3D - I was merely asking if one can create a gripping game in 2D without relying on flashy camera movement in a 3D environment I guess?

I just remember as a kid being completely engrossed in 2D scrolling arcade games whereas now I find myself ''plodding'' through games like Delta Force and Operation Flashpoint. Again, just my opinion.

There was a game that Symphonic descibes but I can''t remember the name - where you move with the keyboard but aim with the mouse, any takers? (I''m going to look in my CD collection tomorrow morning) It was a platform game, kinda like Aliens on the Master System... Hmm, showing my age

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JY    289
Ha! Just as I posted my message I got an e-mail about a response to this post. ABUSE - that''s the kind of thing Symphonic was talking about, no?

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freshya    122
Yes, it''s "Abuse". But does anyone remember TargetQuake? It used the Quake engine to make a side scrolling action game. I remember first playing it and it was beautiful! It looked every bit as good as a predrawn 2D game (remember that at the time, resolutions were small, and so 2D art was not _as_ pretty as it is today). It was good fun too, but it was too strongly attached with Quake for my likings ... maybe they got around to changing all the enemies / weapons / etc, but I didn''t follow it up.

What i''m saying, as soooo many people have said before me, is that 3D graphics and 2D gameplay are NOT mutually exclusive. So, can you make a gripping game in pure 2D you ask? Hmm... let''s think that through =) Command and Conquer? Starcraft? Diablo? Day of the Tentacle? Ultima 8? Tempest 200? Okay, maybe not Tempest 2000 (it was 3D), but still, it is possible to do it. But even if there were no successful 2D games, would it stop you from trying (ignore that sentence if you are a sales manager)? You might make the first

Many people come to this board and say "Can I do this?". If you''re at the design stage, you can do anything. Don''t forget that.

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Symphonic    313
Abuse
This is the most addictive game I''ve played in years! I downloaded it five hours ago and I''ve been playing it non-stop!

Anyway, that''s exactly what I was talking about. JY, you should look at that game my man, it''s a masterpiece. If you could take that concept and up the engines a few levels, then I would praise you endlessly.

What a great game... download it here

If you don''t you''re losing out...

George D. Filiotis

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JY    289
Yeah, I have played Abuse, but I think it was only one level (on a cover disk or something?)

To be honest I don''t think it''ll go the whole way to being published and everything, so I can indeed do whatever I want. It wasn''t really so much as a "can I do" question, but more of a "is there a market" question.

I''ve heard quite a few people look at new games and say "oh, yeah but it''s 2D" as though it''s some kind of let down. It''s interesting talking to you guys though - very encouraging.


Thanks!

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IDC    122
In principle I prefer 3D, as it''s capable of everything you can do in 2D and a lot more. I believe there''s far more ''potential'' in 3D games. Saying that though, in practice, most of my favourites right now are 2D.

It doesn''t have to be, but it seems that a lot of games that go 3D sacrifice something in the way of gameplay to get there. Which is probably because 3D is still relatively young and has some maturing to do yet.

The future is definitely 3D though.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Abuse is great, just downloaded it. A version with slightly sharper graphics would be nice. On the subject of 3d and 2d, I think the gaming world has room for both. Clearly some games have to be in 3d, e.g; FPS, but others could (and do) use either to great effect; witness Red Alert 2, and Shogun. And could anyone imagine civilisation played in true 3d? That would be a nightmare to implement properly. There is still space for 2d, and if you want to amke a 2d game, go ahead

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JY    289
Speaking of Abuse, have you guys seen the project for Abuse2? It looks pretty damn hot! www.abuse2.com has some screenshots and it looks pretty nice.

The project is actually in SourceForge which is a great idea. If I were to start a project for my game, would anybody be interested in helping/contributing? It would be great for a lot of guys on this site who don''t know game programming or DirectX programming.
I was thinking we could keep the project at different stages so that learners can pick it up as it progresses.

When my ideas are a bit more established I will create a project in SourceForge I think.

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JY    289
Thanks Symphonic, that would be great.

My programming skills are fine but graphics and storylines, not so.

Although I am thinking that something along the lines of Abuse might be a bit ambitious to start with? Might start a bit smaller

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