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AhmedCoeia

Should I leave the current company and take the risk?

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AhmedCoeia    510
I have been a 3D Programmer for one year right now, and it was my wish to work in the industry. Before that I worked in research projects in universities and embedded software. 
I have first worked on a title, just did the sound, shadow blobs, skidmarks, some GUI, facebook inventory, payment systems, and some animation of a 3D Bicycle game using unity and my contribution was the pretty good for that game, because we were few , 4 programmers. 
 
There is another very weird programmer that is very hard to work with, but the manager listens to him and once he told me to be patient while working with him. That guy gave a very bad impact and influence on my performance, looks like that.
The last game project just told me don't fix the bugs and don't steal them!! 
However in the first title that I worked for, I solved a lot of bugs and that was the first 3d game that I worked on. 
 
Now they hired two more programmers who are really experienced than me in games industry (12years), and they took the major things that I wished to work in and get experience in like physics, game play,..etc.
 
I was sick for a week, now I came back to the company and found that there are no plans for me, and the manager who is a server side programmer, again put me into server side JEE, and he put off from the client development.. I have done also few server side programming when I don't have some tasks in the client side area in the last game.. so I contributed in both server and client side. 
Now he said that he will hire a specific JEE programmer,.. I asked him today whether I will work in the client side or no, he said to be honest I don't know for now.. I asked him when will be the current JEE tasks that we will start should be done, he said they are simple and it won't take time. 
  
I'm not doing anything right now.. and that's a bad sign 
 
Now I'm not sure what should I do, I don't want to be fired, I will feel bad. I have another offer of a company that is very small and doing augmented reality, and that company doesn't offer better salary at all, besides being small, they want to expect so much from me, should I consider them immediately ?  OR just wait until that company fire me ? 
 
The current company is so stable in terms of long term employment, and the salary is very good, and it's near the home... 
 
The augmented reality company is a small company and the chances to get fired there are 70% and they offer less salary with much higher expectation. 
 
I'm extremely depressed and lost the confidence in myself. A correct decision is very important, because now I'm married and I need money.
I'm an immigrant who works in Austria. I'm mentally sick, bipolar... 
 

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Alessio1989    4634
Did you try to offer yourself to do some work without expecting others assigning something to you? Sometimes it could help, especially if the boss is a dick... maybe the new to programmers may need some help O_O

PS&Off-topic
I read you are in Austria, you aren't far from me, so here a little advise: DO NOT go SOUTH to search a job, especially DO NOT expect to find a good job with a good salary in game development in Italy.

PPS: hope you will sole your situation ; )

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alnite    3437

Well, darn I wrote a long advice only to accidentally pressed refresh and lost everything.  Anyway, here's the gist of what I was gonna say:

 

Don't factor in the money.  Don't factor in any material things, salary, bonuses, or any benefits, or lack thereof, on this decision.  You should only focus on your passion.

 

Are you passionate enough about Augmented Reality that you will kick your future self in the balls for passing up this opportunity?

 

 

I was in a similar situation a few months back.  Should I stay at this large corporation, stable company, stable job, stable pay.  OR. Move to this new startup in a brand new industry, about the same pay, but longer hours, and more responsibility?  I took the jump, and since then I couldn't be more happier.  I learned a whole lot more in these past few months that I ever could in a year if I were to stay in the old company.  And that makes me happy.

 

Later I learned my old company is having some 'turbulence' since I left.  I would've kicked myself in the balls so hard if I had stayed.  I am glad I didn't.

 

YMMV, but always listen to your passion.  Is AR your passion, or is it J2EE, or maybe neither of them?  If you are not passionate enough about AR, then don't move.

Edited by alnite

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AhmedCoeia    510

Thanks Alessio

 

 

@Alnite,

 

I wish I read the reply that it was lost.

 

I'm not really passionate into augmented reality, but they use C++ and I like it, and its in a field that I like, computer vision,..etc  Still I didn't go out so far from the career perspective of game programming.  but 100% J2EE is not my passion at all, I was doing it just for fun and know new thing, AND to fill tasks while there are nothing for me.

 

The only thing that I would move to in the other company is that they c++, ogre, computer vision and that interests me. But I'm worried of not being fit. They are expecting too much from me from their words. 

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d000hg    1199

If you've only been doing this a year, it seems a bit early to be deciding to leave. If you're new to the industry you can expect to get some of the less "cool" things to work on and end up doing anything nobody else wants to do.

 

The good thing is, anything you work on will probably be new, and it's useful to learn all you can.

 

It's fine to tell your boss what you want to work on, but you have to accept if they choose someone else with more experience.

 

I suggest staying at least a little while longer.

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Thaumaturge    3831

 

But I'm worried of not being fit. They are expecting too much from me from their words.

With regards to this specifically, perhaps consider talking to them about it: tell them your misgivings, explain your position, and see what they have to say. It may not be as clear as it seems, and if it is, then you have more information with which to make your decision.

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alnite    3437

I'm not really passionate into augmented reality, but they use C++ and I like it, and its in a field that I like, computer vision,..etc Still I didn't go out so far from the career perspective of game programming. but 100% J2EE is not my passion at all, I was doing it just for fun and know new thing, AND to fill tasks while there are nothing for me.

The only thing that I would move to in the other company is that they c++, ogre, computer vision and that interests me. But I'm worried of not being fit. They are expecting too much from me from their words.

Well the fact that they are closer to your passion is a already good thing.  J2EE seems to be sitting on the far end of your passion.  While AR may not be right there, it overlaps with what you want to do.

 

If you decide to move:

I have said to not factor in money, but we all know the condition we are in.  Money does matter to keep us alive.  So it depends on your financial situations too.  If you get less money by moving, are you able to reduce your cost of living?  Instead of paying those $100 for cable tv, use the free OTA instead?  Just discuss this with your wife, and come up with a list of things that you can sacrifice as a family.

If you get more hours and responsibility, are you okay with this?  Is your wife okay with this?  Is your family okay with this?

What about the driving to work?  Closer? Further away?

 

If you decide to NOT move:

It's not all bad.  When I had nothing to do at work in my previous jobs, I would look up my own stuff, come up with my own project, and learn new things on my own.  This actually gives you a little time to work on things you want to do.  I have a friend, who's bored at the stuff he has to do at work because most of them is just handling politics.  So at home, he would hack a few stuff with his arduino, come up with random gadgets.  You won't have this luxury if you move to another job that demands more hours.

 

50% of my decision comes from my passion, and that's the first thing I consider.  Once that's decided, then I would start talking about the cost of living, pros and cons regarding salary and benefits wise.  If I have to make some sacrifices, am I okay with those sacrifices? If someone offers me a job that's 100% my passion, but only able to pay 10% of what I get paid now, then I would obviously reject that.

 

Decide this, talk to your wife too.  Don't exclude her.

Edited by alnite

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kalle_h    2464

Be proactive and invent tasks for yourself. You said that you don't have any tasks currently use this time for your benefit. Implement some new feature just to show your value and iniative.(even if the feature never gets in to the game its better than doing nothing) In small company you have a lot of room to work and grow.

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AhmedCoeia    510
Today they put me totally into server side development JEE and they will hire a new guy. The bullshit manager that I said he is not a 3D guy but server side, who was replaced by the previous team leader that hired me but he left the company, I asked him that I will never do client 3d games, he is to be honest, no at that time!!.  The new hire will take money more than me be 40%!! and I'm doing his job right now!
 
Then should I go right now to the c++ job and leave those bastards even if they are stable company, because it seems it won't be secured anymore, and of course I need to work in C++, games, embedded, something that I like. Not doing Java EE ?  Or should I continue there, and gain experience in that field, which is useless to me.. :S 

But If I decided to do the Java EE, until when ? I will lose my time and experience of course
 

I got an offer from a company, and they told me there are two c++ guys that they are leaving,  it seems the company are not stable too and they were bored, I'm very worried from getting fired there! 

 

Should I take the risk guys?

 
Should I take the risk ?

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Ravyne    14300

To be perfectly blunt, it sounds like something in this working relationship has soured already -- whether its your manager, this other programmer, or yourself I don't know. One thing I pick up on though, is that you seem very attached to the idea of working on the things that interest you -- and while that is normal, healthy, and good in your own hobbies and for the effort you put into growing and expanding your skills, that's not the reality of how any job anywhere works. You were hired to do a portion of the work that needs doing, because the business of your company is getting products out the door -- always keep in mind that shipping products is what pays your salary at the end of the day, and you can't buy bread with your job satisfaction. Think hard and be honest with yourself whether you are part of (or perhaps the whole) problem -- Are you really as skilled as you think? Should you rightfully earn the higher wages some of your (soon-to-be) coworkers do? Are you able to execute in the areas you are interested in better than the coworkers assigned to them? Have you payed your dues and earned the right of first-refusal to the work that interests you? (Hint on that last one: You've been there a year; you haven't.)

 

Now, I'm not saying you should always stick with an unhappy but stable job -- I've done that once in my first job out of college and ultimately my enthusiasm waned, my performance suffered, and my manager's opinion of me soured to the point that I was not only responsible for my own shortcomings at the time but became the scapegoat as well for my direct supervisor's mistakes. Who was to blame in exactly what measure is mostly irrelevant except that I acknowledge and accept my part, the combined environment of this particular workplace, coworkers, and myself was simply toxic. I was shown the door, but it was business -- nothing personal, and even though it was a blow to my ego at the time, I was also happy to be free and quickly found happier work that even came with a pay raise. Happily I've not experienced that anyplace else and everyone since seems happy with my contributions (plus, I take a little solace knowing that supervisor was let go about a year later). You might be at a similar junction to my own, but life is always a balance in all things and one that's very personal, only you can make the final call.

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AhmedCoeia    510

@Ravyne, Thanks so much.  But What about that the new job offer that the manager says there are two c++ guys they are leaving and wanting me in the office asap! 

 

Should I worry why those two guys left ? 

 

It seems that he expects too much of me, How should I show him that I'm not that best, but will do my best ?  I lost the self confidence, and I'm really worried 

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AhmedCoeia    510

@Tom Sloper

I have offered a C++ Augmented Reality job, which is interesting to me, at least I won't go far away from GD.. but I'm very worried, it's a small company, pays less, and right now, the manager told me that there are two c++ guys that are leaving and they want me asap.

 

 

How about doing that EE Job in the morning and in the evening do things that I like, like embedded, games,...etc? or I will not perform good in the day job?

Edited by AhmedCoeia

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Ravyne    14300

You should worry a little why those two guys are leaving, especially at the same time and especially why the employer wouldn't or couldn't move mountains to get at least one of them to stay because even in big companies, the teams themselves are usually small and loosing two out of even a dozen team members is a significant blow unless they weren't contributing at all.

 

But this isn't a binary decision. It sounds like you have your current job for as long as you want to keep it and can put up with doing work that's not as fulfilling as you might like. That gives you time, which is a force-multiplier when it comes to having options. Your choice is not "Do I stay or do I jump to the AR company?", your choice is "Do I stay, do I jump to the AI company, or do I make due where I am while I take my time looking for a better opportunity?" Time is always the most valuable asset you have when making a decision, don't be so quick to throw it away in a panic.

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alnite    3437


I have offered a C++ Augmented Reality job, which is interesting to me, at least I won't go far away from GD.. but I'm very worried, it's a small company, pays less, and right now, the manager told me that there are two c++ guys that are leaving and they want me asap.

 

That's actually a redflag.  Perhaps there's something with the management or the financial of the company.  If this is a brand new startup with lots of funding, and everyone is excited to jump onboard, that's a whole different story.  But the fact that there are people quitting, and these two happen to be (I would assume) the core C++ programmers, you would be left out dealing with source code which you have no idea how it works, and there's deadline looming over your head because he wants to join you ASAP.

 

My suggestion is look for other opportunities.  Take advantage of the idle time you have at work as much as possible by learning/working on separate projects that can make your resume look better.

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AhmedCoeia    510

@Alnite, thanks so much, and everyone else. 

 

The real point that irritates me and it hurts me, is my look to the other team members, the client 3D Guys. Now I look weak, shifted to do server side, putting me off to something else... I think for whatever reasons, I would consider my self that  I got fired... because that was actually what happened, correct ? They didn't want to fire me, but they wanted to use me full time into something else.  They were doing that when I was working in client side... I was also doing both..

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Ravyne    14300

Its not a personal affront -- they had work that needed to be done, and they had to map the resources they have (that's you and your coworkers) to that work that needs doing to ship a product. Its that simple. Its every bit as likely that they chose you because they thought you'd be better at the server stuff than your coworkers as is that they chose you because they thought your coworkers are better than you at the client stuff. More likely still is that they considered the sum-total of effort vs. productivity given all the combinations of assignments they could make -- Lets say your co-worker, lets call him Bill, does 1 unit of work on client side, but would only do 0.8 units of work server-side, and lets also say for the sake of argument that you are objectively better than Bill at both, you do 1.2 units of work on either the client or the server side. If your manager places Bill on the server work, and you on the client work, the two of you generate 2 work units total -- on the other hand, if Bill stays on the client where he's more competent, and you on the server where you do just as well as on the client and certainly better than Bill would, the two of you generate 2.2 units of work. A manager would have to be dead between the ears to not take that 10% productivity advantage. Again, I think your attachment to the notion that you should always get to do the work that most interests you is coloring how you see things.

 

Managers can sometimes be daft, but you can always trust that they are doing the thing they think leads to quickest/cheapest success, if for no other reason than self-interest. If you're contributing to their success, then they'll put you where you're most useful -- that's how they get noticed, get raises, get promoted -- and even bad managers know to reward those who keep them in success almost all of the time. 

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L. Spiro    25638

Don't quit. If they want to keep you on, that's good. Meanwhile, apply for other jobs.

@Tom Sloper
I have offered a C++ Augmented Reality job, which is interesting to me, at least I won't go far away from GD.

I think you missed the point there.
He didn’t say, “Stop applying once you get an offer.”
Keep applying for other jobs while you remain at your current employer, even if you already have an offer.

The point is really very simple: If you don’t like your current options, create new options until you find one you like.


L. Spiro

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Gian-Reto    7070

+1 to what the other have said before: Keep looking around. Having a single job offer that sounds okayish is certainly not much of an incentive to leave your current, secure, if kind of Corporate-BS-sounding job.

 

Having multiple interesting sounding offers will certainly solve your current dilemma for you, you will most probably leave your job without looking back.

 

If these offers do not come, lets say because you are turned down by every company you try, or if there are not enough jobs on the market at moment at all, you can still stay at your current position, as you have not "rage quitted" yet. And given these AR guys really want you this bad, and have troubles filling the position, it might still be open in a month (though that would be like a HUGE red flag!).

 

 

Never "rage quit" without trying to get a different job first. Sometimes easier said than done, but try to redirect your anger towards finding a new job instead. And TRY to part with your current job / company / boss in a good way no matter how much BS they fling your way.

You never know who you might meet where in the future...

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d000hg    1199

@Alnite, thanks so much, and everyone else. 

 

The real point that irritates me and it hurts me, is my look to the other team members, the client 3D Guys. Now I look weak, shifted to do server side, putting me off to something else... I think for whatever reasons, I would consider my self that  I got fired... because that was actually what happened, correct ? They didn't want to fire me, but they wanted to use me full time into something else.  They were doing that when I was working in client side... I was also doing both..

Thinking of server-side as "less important" is not sensible. 

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AhmedCoeia    510

d000hg, it's just out of my interest and scope of what I did in the past.. or its ok to focus on it and write it my cv that I did server side however my titel is game programmer :S

 

Giant Rego, why it would be a huge red flag ? If they can't find what they want, would it also be a red flag ?

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dpadam450    2357

Well if you didn't make a move yet, in the US we have unemployment that pays money based on your prior salary. I'd take the risk of staying then, you can look for plenty of jobs if you are unemployed, while receiving some help from the government.

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