I got this idea:

There are several fields (computers, energy, constructions, chemistry, etc). Your research points are divided between these.

BUT, you can't set percentages (like in older 4X games), since that was not working too well (it was always best to always put 100% in one field and then swich after it reached the "next level"). Instead you can only say which field is Primary (50%) and which is Secondary (20%), all the remaining fields would get like 5% each.

Questions:

- the usual, what you think, if it would work, if you can refine it, etc, etc

- I'm also worried, wouldn't such system make you switch the Primary/Secondary marker all the time to optimize the research (like mark as primary a non focused field when it get sufficient res.points accumulate to quickly finish it)?

- I'm especially open on the Primary/Secondary marker part (I just need it so the player can not focus 100% on one field, but it could be done different way I suppose)

Hmm... What about giving research paths a "momentum" value? This value would increase the longer a given path is assigned as "primary" (or increase at a rate proportional to the path's assigned percentage), and would reset to zero when one switches paths. The "momentum" value of a path would act as a multiplier for research: given two paths, each with an assigned percentage of one hundred percent, but one with a higher "momentum", the path with the higher "momentum" would progress the more quickly. Thus it becomes profitable to stick with a research path rather than chopping and changing.

However, I feel that it's also worth asking: what result are you aiming for in this mechanic? Are you trying to give players incentive to stick with a research path (as my above suggestion assumes), or something else? Additionally, why do you want to discourage the behaviour of assigning all of one's research points into one field, then switching when that reaches its next level?

However, I feel that it's also worth asking: what result are you aiming for in this mechanic? Are you trying to give players incentive to stick with a research path (as my above suggestion assumes), or something else? Additionally, why do you want to discourage the behaviour of assigning all of one's research points into one field, then switching when that reaches its next level?

No... it's not like that... How to put it...

I don't care how the player uses it, my ONLY concern is micromanagement (the player being forced to jump around and adjust these over and over again in order of maximum efficiency).

why do you want to discourage the behaviour of assigning all of one's research points into one field

Well, it's obviously the optimal strategy If there is such option the player would do it (that's why the precentage system of Master of Orion 1 went extinct ages ago).

You remember the system? You had 100% to distribute and you set 30% to energy, 5% to constructions, 12% to computers, etc. Eventually you got smarter and always set 100% to exactly one field (total focus) since it yelds the fastest result in the end (less res.points tied up in "research in progress").

I was trying to "fix" it, to make a system where *each* field of research is progressing at least very slowly (some players like it, it has also some nice gameplay repercussions, like you will eventually reach "Sociology level 3" by the end of the game even if you never invested anything in sociology) yet you have a decision which should progress faster.

I have also seen a "fixed" systems where each field could not go below 5% (so you were not able to set these fully freely). But it was still annoying.

I always found it frustrating to be limited to researching one topic at a time even if I have the research points to study a dozen low level techs. Especially as I might be concentrating on one or two things but still need all the other techs to have a decent empire.

What about dividing things into to two areas discoveries and tech levels.

Discovers would specific things like ion cannons, or fusion drives. A Tech level in a simple version would be a set of discoveries.

The research points you generate are spent on discoveries, and when your total research points generated reaches a certain milestone you get all discoveries at that tech level.

So tech level 1 might consist of

• Colonization Module
• Fusion Engine
• Lasers
• Vertical Farms
• Research Labs
• Industrial 3D Printers
• Digital Currency
• Solar Collectors

Each costs 10 RP. The cost of unlocking Tech Level 1 might be 150% of the remaining techs. So If I researched just Fusion Engines and colonization module from tech level 1 then when my total research reaches 90 RP I'd get all the remaining ones.

You can have other more complex interactions as well. Such as TL cost is decreased by 10% for every level behind the galactic average you are. Or you get a 2.5% discount for every race you have a trade agreement with. Covert action might be able to disrupt your progress towards a tech level. You might find the ruins of an ancient planet civilization that instantly catapults you to tech level 3.

That way you focus on a couple of primary techs an know that you'll still advance as empire as whole, even if all do you is spend your time researching bigger guns.

What about Master of Orion IIs system? You could only research one thing at a time, but if you tried to tech up evenly across all the different fields you're almost guaranteed to lose on anything but the easiest difficulty level. And for most species builds you can only choose one technology from each field per level to research at all, so while you can choose the order of research you can never have everything. Pax Imperia II had a percentage allocation system, and I very rarely put all 100% into a single field because it's a worse option than a mix.

The system you're describing, as I understand it, sounds really restrictive to me, and for not much of a reason. I don't think it would be a game breaker for me, but it would be annoying. What is the gameplay value of forcing me to research something I don't really want, even just a little, versus specialization? I would rather see a system that makes "total focus" impractical or suboptimal than one that forces me to play in a way that I don't want to, to no purpose other than satisfying the developer's arbitrary preference.

You remember the system?

Honestly, no--I don't really play strategy games, to be honest (hence my so seldom posting in your threads). ^^;

However, I do believe that I have the general idea, and see the problems that you're describing.

I don't care how the player uses it, my ONLY concern is micromanagement (the player being forced to jump around and adjust these over and over again in order of maximum efficiency).

Hmm... Okay, in which case, what about simplifying a bit and approaching the mechanic from the other end? Instead of having the player indicate which paths they want to research along, have them indicate which discoveries/tech. levels they want, and have those progress at a fixed rate. Players not interested in a given path can simply choose to not select discoveries/levels from those paths. The number of active research projects might be limited either by the number of paths (one may only research on thing at a time per path), or by a simple cap on the number of projects (one may only have X research projects going at once).

The end result, as I imagine it, would be that every so often the player is notified that a project has completed, opens the "research" window and selects a new project, which begins ticking down steadily. As long as the timers and research restrictions on number of projects are well-selected, the result should, I think, be simple, call for little management, and allow the player to select how they want their empire to grow.

It's not quite what you indicate that you want (it doesn't automatically advance every field), but it might be possible to tweak it to your liking, and in any case seems worth suggesting.

I think people's strategy depends on how you implemented research points, if it is "diminishing returns" people try to optimize somehow by distributing, if "increasing returns" they choose one tech, if linear they do as they please.

I always found it frustrating to be limited to researching one topic at a time even if I have the research points to study a dozen low level techs. Especially as I might be concentrating on one or two things but still need all the other techs to have a decent empire.

I like that research will progress whether or not the Emperor is personally involved. Private companies are going to want mass drivers and immortality vaccines and lots of other things; it's just that without your funding, research will go more slowly and not necessarily reflect your strategic priorities. But you can plunk down a big grant program (pay immediately) or maybe a bounty (pay at discovery), and researchers across the empire will scramble to discover what you've specified.

Pax Imperia II had a percentage allocation system, and I very rarely put all 100% into a single field because it's a worse option than a mix.

Assuming you need 10 turns to research some tech:

If you spend 5 turns researching weapons and got it half done and 5 turns on propulsion and get it half done you still have nothing at the moment. If you spend 10 turns on weapons and 0 on propulsion you already have one working weapon tech (and you can start destroying the enemy now). In 20 turns you would get both weapons and propulsion tech no matter which route you went, but with 100% focus you get first benefits at turn 10 (instead of turn 20). Therefore 100% focus is clearly superior strategy, always, no exceptions.

to no purpose other than satisfying the developer's arbitrary preference

Honestly, no--I don't really play strategy games, to be honest (hence my so seldom posting in your threads). ^^;

It does not make sense to me from mathgematical point of view (of course I don't deny players not always do what's optimal or mathematically correct )
Assuming you need 10 turns to research some tech:
If you spend 5 turns researching weapons and got it half done and 5 turns on propulsion and get it half done you still have nothing at the moment. If you spend 10 turns on weapons and 0 on propulsion you already have one working weapon tech (and you can start destroying the enemy now). In 20 turns you would get both weapons and propulsion tech no matter which route you went, but with 100% focus you get first benefits at turn 10 (instead of turn 20). Therefore 100% focus is clearly superior strategy, always, no exceptions.

Not really. I could see that being the case if all techs at a given level take the same amount of time to research, have zero cost to deploy, and produce instant benefits, but that doesn't come up too often. A game where you can assign research percentages but it is always a mistake to do so is one that has a poorly designed research tree.

I really like valrus' suggestion if you want to get away from that system altogether. Having research priorities like in the OP feels to me like a nerfed version of the research system you don't like, but valrus' is a new system that shouldn't chafe people who don't mind the "old", standard way for research in a 4x.