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Stat-stick Syndrome : How to avoid ?

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Problem:

 The whole Game / Challenge / Battle outcome is summarised as a numeric stat test check. You got that stat, you pass. Else: Gameover.

 Numbers do the talking, not you.

 Game is 0/1 binary. Summary: Stat > x ? Win / Lose.

 

Examples:

 a) Darkest dungeons/Hellsing/Sacred/Fate/Torchlight/Din's Curse: you just decorate your autoattack button you just witness the past results of your "cookie cutter build" you chose. The only barrier is "grind".

 

b) League of legends: You meet rengar.

 

At which case the excuse is : you must buy wards.

>Rengar can 1shot you while he is invisible and you are behind your tower, he takes 80 tower dmg, you take 2200-4400 dmg and die in 0.0 sec.

 

At which case the excuse is : you aren't allowed to walk alone. you must penta-walk with your team.

>At which point: Rengar performs the same attack but suicides, killing 2 people in  the process.

 

At which case the excuse is : you aren't allowed to penta-walk with your team without zonya/autorez armor.

>At which case he backdoors, and you lose the game. You team has to die once for you to lose the game. If rengar dies his team is unaffected.

So stat = X = Encounter End = Game end. [op riot logic]

 

 c) Dnd: Event Outcome = Skill test / Saving Throw / Dice roll. Its the same with above cases.

Edited by zif

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Skillshot abilities are an obvious/easy route to mitigate this. If the player has to manually target, then the encounter comes down to their skill at aiming versus their opponent's skill in getting out of the way. Escape skills (smoke bombs, temporary invulnerability, blink/dash) allow a player with numerically inferior attack/defence to avoid incoming attacks.

Edited by swiftcoder

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so that means the way to make a game more difficult is not through dps increases on the enemies like most games do = binary, but :

1) increase number monsters = more difficult to dodge.

2) less cooldown on skills = forces more dodges.

3) more positioning requirements, scouting ahead of the battle / avoiding enemies.

Edited by zif

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Mastering a complex enough stat system can be a skill of its own. In my opinion, going physical-skill-based (ie, aiming) isn't really the answer because I can't aim. I can't play todays shooters, a consequence of a number of injuries that have affected both hands coupled with a natural general suckitude. So the quickest way to turn me off is to take away my stats and make me have to aim at something to hit it. Similarly with dodging. If my ability to win a game comes down to relying on my screwed up hands to pull off a dextrous act of dodging, then I'm hosed.

 

Positional requirements and scouting, however, I am fine with. But I guess I'm probably not your target audience. And that, I think, is why so many games go with stats over physical skill: an attempt to not limit their audience by excluding us klutzes.

 

I'm not sure about your arbitrary "binary" classification. How is increasing an enemy's dps a "binary" action?

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JTippets does make a fair point, I think: not everyone will enjoy or be unhindered in playing mechanics that rely on speed or dexterity.

 

However, such mechanics aren't the only things that can replace statistical checks. For example, (in a turn-based game) one could replace statistical checks with positional and/or directional considerations, or limited-use abilities (making the question of which to use when a tactical consideration).

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Is this a troll post? All examples you posted are way more than just binary "stat > X = win" checks.

 

a) In the action RPGs you mentioned, your awesomeness is derived from your build [strategy], positioning + skill use [dexterity, speed] and perception. There is a lot of grinding but that has absolutely nothing to do with your original topic.

 

b) No comment on LoL. I think you got rekt by Rengar 5 minutes prior to writing your post. I think you're crying in the wrong forum.

 

c) You are misunderstanding the entire concept of DnD. Saving throws and dice rolls introduce the element of chance which is absolutely essential in a lot of games to make them more varied and interesting. Skill checks are not binary / predictable because you don't know what the X is in the "stat > X = win" equation, therefore you can screw yourself as easily as you can win.

 

Also, what is so inherently wrong with stat checks? If I disregard all the elements of learning, strategy etc. like you did, I can state that the entire school system in every country is a stat check.

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I can't speak for every game, or for games that I haven't played, but some/many games offer a variety of paths. Going back to an oldie but goody, Fallout 3. You often have a multitude of ways of achieving the same goal:

  • Speech test (stat check)
  • Direct combat (stats + aiming or stats + intelligent use of auto-aim, using chemicals + gear to offer an edge)
  • Tactical combat (kiting, sniping, setting mines, environmental damage, etc)
  • Sneaking to avoid (stat check + positioning and timing)
  • Lockpicking to bypass challenges (stat check + mini-game)

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You know, this isn't the first time somebody got worked in LoL and made an account here to complain about it, then vanished. Riot must be doing something right, to piss off so many people yet still maintain such a strong user base.

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You know, this isn't the first time somebody got worked in LoL and made an account here to complain about it, then vanished. Riot must be doing something right, to piss off so many people yet still maintain such a strong user base.


League is actually super balanced, the only arguably OP champ is Katarina who can reset her abilities upon getting a kill (meaning she has all the tools she needs to kill the next person and reset her abilities yet again).

However, due to the team conpositions it can really feel like some games absolutely hopeless. Partvof the issue is that many champs have mechanics completely unique to them, so if you don't understand that mechanic, the champ feels waaay too powerful by normal measures. A notable example is Karthus, which can cast a massive damage spell gauranteed to hit everyone on the enemy team even while he is dead. But, several champion abilities and one item make you untargetable, negating any damage from his ability. Seems unfair until you know there is a way to avoid 100% of the time.

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