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I am considering working on a particular concept, that would involve use of terminology from the particular series and mini-game from which I gained inspiration. I am curious as to the potential legal issues with this? I presume there are none, but I would like to be certain...

The particular terminology is 'gil' as currency, as from the final fantasy jrpg series, as well as other terminology for spells, items etc... for example, "blizard", "phenoix down" and the likes.

In addition, I am considering using gil as in app currency, that can be earned through play or purchased and redeemed for the in-game currency. This game concept is a trading card game, and the valuables which are purchased with the currency would be traded/wagered, and potentially also the currency itself in the form of an ingame gil card/treasure card (or some similar concept) which can be played for and obtained from other players. This seems like a fine line between normal gaming and gambling, so I am particularly concerned about this.

 

The project is a tcg, hopefully with a campaign mode and story, and I will hopefully(should I ever actually make it) release it cross platform. I'm not certain as to monetisation or the business model, though I want to keep it ethical, so I might go for some kind of loyalty rewards, or cap limit, to make sure my game is fair. For example, if you bought lots of in game currency to kickstart your play, then maybe I would give them discounts, or free story arcs for the campaign.  It is still in early design stages so I have yet to really think about monetisation.  

This is my first serious project, and chances are good I will decide to do something else to raise capital and get experience with the tools I will be using, but I would like to construct a design document before I decide what to do next. Help with these issues will ease that process. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

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use of terminology from the particular series and mini-game from which I gained inspiration. I am curious as to the potential legal issues with this? I presume there are none

 

 

There are ALWAYS potential legal consequences. 

 

The more distinctive the thing is, the more risk you have.

 

Start with this article from the Forum FAQ. If you haven't read all of them, you might want to go there first.

 

The exact details start to get tricky. When things are generic there is little risk. The closer you get to someone's specific property, the more risk you have.

 

If you have generic cold spells, like 'Freeze', 'Blizzard', 'Snowball', 'Ice Shards', you are fairly safe.

 

if your cold spells are a line-by-line match from the cold spells from a major game, with nothing added or removed, of course you should be prepared for some legal actions against you. Quit being lazy and make up your own.

 

Why "Phoenix Down"? Quit being lazy and make up something that fits your game world. Other games go with "Amulet of Life Saving", "Life Up Cream", green mushrooms, a red gem, a blue elixir, and more. 

 

Why "Gil"? Other systems use Credits, Simoleons, Space Bucks, Crescents, Notes, Dragons, Bits, Bells, Cash, Rupees, Latinum, Gold, Silver, Copper... Really, are you so uncreative that you cannot think of anything other that Final Fantasy's currency?

 

 

 


which can be played for and obtained from other players. This seems like a fine line between normal gaming and gambling, so I am particularly concerned about this.

You should be. Violating gambling laws can land you in jail.

 

You should talk with a business lawyer before your idea goes too far.  If you cannot afford a business lawyer, you cannot afford to be in business.

 

 

 


I would like to construct a design document before I decide what to do next. Help with these issues will ease that process. 

It depends on your goal. 

 

If you want to actually start a business, make money, and be productive, I would start with a business plan.

 

Once you understand your goals as a business, how much of your personal money and time you are willing to invest, then start building game design documents.

 

Alternatively, if you decide you are never going to bring a game to market and never release it to the world, then you can also forgo a business plan.

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use of terminology from the particular series and mini-game from which I gained inspiration. I am curious as to the potential legal issues with this? I presume there are none

 

 

There are ALWAYS potential legal consequences. 

 

The more distinctive the thing is, the more risk you have.

 

Start with this article from the Forum FAQ. If you haven't read all of them, you might want to go there first.

 

The exact details start to get tricky. When things are generic there is little risk. The closer you get to someone's specific property, the more risk you have.

 

If you have generic cold spells, like 'Freeze', 'Blizzard', 'Snowball', 'Ice Shards', you are fairly safe.

 

if your cold spells are a line-by-line match from the cold spells from a major game, with nothing added or removed, of course you should be prepared for some legal actions against you. Quit being lazy and make up your own.

 

Why "Phoenix Down"? Quit being lazy and make up something that fits your game world. Other games go with "Amulet of Life Saving", "Life Up Cream", green mushrooms, a red gem, a blue elixir, and more. 

 

Why "Gil"? Other systems use Credits, Simoleons, Space Bucks, Crescents, Notes, Dragons, Bits, Bells, Cash, Rupees, Latinum, Gold, Silver, Copper... Really, are you so uncreative that you cannot think of anything other that Final Fantasy's currency?

 

 

 


which can be played for and obtained from other players. This seems like a fine line between normal gaming and gambling, so I am particularly concerned about this.

You should be. Violating gambling laws can land you in jail.

 

You should talk with a business lawyer before your idea goes too far.  If you cannot afford a business lawyer, you cannot afford to be in business.

 

 

 


I would like to construct a design document before I decide what to do next. Help with these issues will ease that process. 

It depends on your goal. 

 

If you want to actually start a business, make money, and be productive, I would start with a business plan.

 

Once you understand your goals as a business, how much of your personal money and time you are willing to invest, then start building game design documents.

 

Alternatively, if you decide you are never going to bring a game to market and never release it to the world, then you can also forgo a business plan.

 

 

its not about being lazy, originally I wanted to make a clone of a triple triad ( a mini-game) as a tribute and release it for free. But now I would rather make an original product, but still have some elements as tribute. I Don't intend to copy a great deal, and I will be using more original names for many spells. Though I would like to use some names of items, and some status effects (confuse, petrify) its fair to say its laziness, but it wouldn't be difficult to come up with other names, I just would like to know whether I can use what feels right for the project. Its somewhat of a passion project, after all.

 

Indeed it can, thats why I need advice and references to other projects that may have allowed trading/playing for in game items of some perceived value, and while I could avoid the currency issue by having some in game economy that can be traded for in game currency, I need to know the line.  I haven't played many trading card games before either, so I don;t know whats to be expected. This is my first stop, there will be others on the journey... 

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I need to know the line.


There is no line. You draw your own line, based on how much risk you are willing to take. You ought to read that article he suggested that you read.

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If there was an actual line, we wouldn't need judges to decide on a case-by-case basis where the line is, and we wouldn't have high-paid lawyers playing legal-football moving the line back and forth trying to convince the judge that in this case it's in their favor when they are on one side of it, but in that case it's also against their favor when they're on the other side.
 

How close to the edge of the cliff do you want to get? If the ground crumbles underneath you, you better have a safety net to catch you. If you don't, then try not to get as close to the edge.

 

I love Triple Triad. Did you know Square Enix recently re-released it inside their latest Final Fantasy MMO (FF14)? Just two weeks ago? They know the popularity of it, so it's not like it's laying somewhere decrepit and ignored.

 

They can't copyright gameplay. But they can copyright the visuals, names, calculations/formulas, numbers, and so on.

 

Yes, "phoenix down" might be used in other games. But those games are usually entirely different games. You need to make absolutely sure that nobody can even imply that you are trying to make an "imitation" product.

 

Rhetorical Question: Why do you want to reference the Final Fantasy stuff? Most likely Answer: Because Final Fantasy is cool, it's nostalgic, and it's popular, and it'll make your game more popular (benefitting you (even if you give it away for free)) if you use or reference Square Enix's property. Their property has value. If you use their property to "improve" your game, that puts you at legal risk.

 

Your question sorta boils down to, "How much can I use their property without getting caught? I want to use it enough so players know I'm referencing their work, but I also want to be able to pretend in court that I'm not actually referencing their work.". You want to convince two different groups of people of opposite things. To one group, your fans, you want to say, "Hey, I'm referencing Final Fantasy!" (true), to the other group, the legal courts, you want to say, "Um, no, any resemblance is just accidental, your honor!" (false). That's a dangerous line to walk... and, as mentioned, the line is up for interpretation by the judge based partly on your intent, and your intent is to benefit of Square Enix's work.

 

You can reference them by using their ideas (items that revive, cards with pictures on them and numbers on the edges, etc...), but not their implementations of those ideas (revive = phoenix down, which pictures are on the cards, the exact numbers around the edges of the cards, etc...). The more of Square Enix's implementations you use in one game, the likelier you're violating their copyrights.

 

How many 'implementations' can you take without getting sued? Who knows! That depends on how popular your game becomes, which implementations you took (some are likely more significant than others),.

 

To put it another way, you ever play Pokemon cards?

If you looked at a set of Pokemon cards, and designed your own card game off of it, you removed every reference to Pokemon, used new creatures entirely, new art, renamed all the abilities and their descriptions, moved around the positions of everything, so they visually looked nothing alike, but kept the exact same attack/hp and ability damages (but ) so the same values were used, you'd still be in violation, because you stole their implementation (the values and formulas).

Alternatively, if you changed all the attack/health/skills, but you still had Pikachu's face on it, then you'd be violating their implementation of that character.

 

But you're still free to make a Pokemon-like card game using their ideas and game mechanics, you just can't take their work. It took them work to popularize Phoenix Downs, and it took them work to figure out what numbers on the edges of the card make the game balanced and enjoyable. (It also took them work to come up with and refine the basic idea also, but they can't copyright the idea, so that's fine).

 

I'm not a lawyer. If you're going to be walking close to the cliff, get a lawyer to test what parts of the cliff might crumble before you walk on it, and get a safety net incase you fall anyway, because if it's risky, the lawyer is only interpreting what the judge might rule - but he ain't the judge himself.

If it sounds dangerous, no problem! Just don't walk next to the cliff. Use their ideas, but make your own game without referencing them. You can say your game was inspired by their game, but your game doesn't have to play off of their game's popularity.

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If there was an actual line, we wouldn't need judges to decide on a case-by-case basis where the line is, and we wouldn't have high-paid lawyers playing legal-football moving the line back and forth trying to convince the judge that in this case it's in their favor when they are on one side of it, but in that case it's also against their favor when they're on the other side.
 

How close to the edge of the cliff do you want to get? If the ground crumbles underneath you, you better have a safety net to catch you. If you don't, then try not to get as close to the edge.

 

I love Triple Triad. Did you know Square Enix recently re-released it inside their latest Final Fantasy MMO (FF14)? Just two weeks ago? They know the popularity of it, so it's not like it's laying somewhere decrepit and ignored.

 

They can't copyright gameplay. But they can copyright the visuals, names, calculations/formulas, numbers, and so on.

 

Yes, "phoenix down" might be used in other games. But those games are usually entirely different games. You need to make absolutely sure that nobody can even imply that you are trying to make an "imitation" product.

 

Rhetorical Question: Why do you want to reference the Final Fantasy stuff? Most likely Answer: Because Final Fantasy is cool, it's nostalgic, and it's popular, and it'll make your game more popular (benefitting you (even if you give it away for free)) if you use or reference Square Enix's property. Their property has value. If you use their property to "improve" your game, that puts you at legal risk.

 

Your question sorta boils down to, "How much can I use their property without getting caught? I want to use it enough so players know I'm referencing their work, but I also want to be able to pretend in court that I'm not actually referencing their work.". You want to convince two different groups of people of opposite things. To one group, your fans, you want to say, "Hey, I'm referencing Final Fantasy!" (true), to the other group, the legal courts, you want to say, "Um, no, any resemblance is just accidental, your honor!" (false). That's a dangerous line to walk... and, as mentioned, the line is up for interpretation by the judge based partly on your intent, and your intent is to benefit of Square Enix's work.

 

You can reference them by using their ideas (items that revive, cards with pictures on them and numbers on the edges, etc...), but not their implementations of those ideas (revive = phoenix down, which pictures are on the cards, the exact numbers around the edges of the cards, etc...). The more of Square Enix's implementations you use in one game, the likelier you're violating their copyrights.

 

How many 'implementations' can you take without getting sued? Who knows! That depends on how popular your game becomes, which implementations you took (some are likely more significant than others),.

 

To put it another way, you ever play Pokemon cards?

If you looked at a set of Pokemon cards, and designed your own card game off of it, you removed every reference to Pokemon, used new creatures entirely, new art, renamed all the abilities and their descriptions, moved around the positions of everything, so they visually looked nothing alike, but kept the exact same attack/hp and ability damages (but ) so the same values were used, you'd still be in violation, because you stole their implementation (the values and formulas).

Alternatively, if you changed all the attack/health/skills, but you still had Pikachu's face on it, then you'd be violating their implementation of that character.

 

But you're still free to make a Pokemon-like card game using their ideas and game mechanics, you just can't take their work. It took them work to popularize Phoenix Downs, and it took them work to figure out what numbers on the edges of the card make the game balanced and enjoyable. (It also took them work to come up with and refine the basic idea also, but they can't copyright the idea, so that's fine).

 

I'm not a lawyer. If you're going to be walking close to the cliff, get a lawyer to test what parts of the cliff might crumble before you walk on it, and get a safety net incase you fall anyway, because if it's risky, the lawyer is only interpreting what the judge might rule - but he ain't the judge himself.

If it sounds dangerous, no problem! Just don't walk next to the cliff. Use their ideas, but make your own game without referencing them. You can say your game was inspired by their game, but your game doesn't have to play off of their game's popularity.

 

Thanks for the answer. I will drop the 'gil'  and instead come up with my own currencies, and legal tenders that fit into the lore of my game (potentially) better. That being said, I want my game to have several ideas that are common in jrpgs, and I want it to be based off of real world mythology to an extent. SO things like the phoenix make sense to the lore of my game. And having odin, or shiva as summons too somewhat make sense. I suppose I will instead have to come up with new names for these things. But I want to be able to use status ailments like petrify, confuse, blind, silence, and white magic/potions like potion, hi potion(might rename the more advanced levels as they feel a bit clunky) and that in particular is where my concern lies now. I will avoid as much as possible as I don't intend to make it a tribute any more, that was the idea before  I changed it into its new form. Now I just want to know what I can use without expecting a knock on the door!  I don't want to have to worry so much about being sued that I settle for more original but less enjoyable names. I don't intend to profit off of the work of others, I just want to take inspiration and make a good game! 

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I'm not a lawyer, so I'm only giving you my guesses and 'safe bets'.

 

A) What about Phoenix Tears, Phoenix Feathers? Both have been used before, people will instantly know what they are for. Heck, deep fry the bird itself! laugh.png

Seriously, what about Phoenix Hearts? Eating the heart of a dragon is supposed to give you wisdom. Maybe eating the heart of a phoenix will revive you from the ashes, instead of the phoenix being revived.

 

b04936a2cd.png

 

The key here, is you're too frequently stopping at 'copy' the well-recognized Final Fantasy things, and not moving beyond that to 'transforming' and 'combining'. I'm sure you're creative enough in other areas, but in the 'recognizables' of Final Fantasy, you're not wanting to move beyond copying, but that is precisely where the legal danger arises.

 

B) Common ailments I don't think are a problem. They are generic enough that hundreds of games use them. Whereas Pheonix Downs occur very rarely in RPGs, and are mostly only famous from the exact series you are getting inspiration from, ailments are used everywhere.

But don't stop at just the Final Fantasy ones - add your own as well. And mix up the terminology. Some games use 'Venom', 'Plague', 'Disease', as alternatives to 'Poison'. But really, 'poison' isn't going to get you into trouble. But be creative here.

 

C) "Potions" are fine. "Hi Potions" are an exact spelling of what Final Fantasy used (especially since you have zero need to abbreviate 'High' as 'Hi'). On it's own, any minor little thing like that won't cause you a problem. Taking together, dozens and dozens of minor similarities can work against you.

 

Elixirs, Potions, Draughts, Flasks, Drinks, Brews, etc... Red, Green, White, Blue, Rancid, Spoilt, Strong, Lively, Weak, Weary, Odd, Unusual, Transparent, Opaque...

It is zero difficulty at all to come up with new names. Many games use herbs. You could also consider powders.

 

D) Do you know how huge mythology is? Even if you avoided the Final Fantasy summons, you'd still have hundreds more characters than you'd know what to do with. But if you "just so happen" to, out of hundreds of mythologies from dozens of cultures, choose the exact same characters from the game you are inspired by, that hints of more than just inspiration.

 

If you were making an entirely different game, there wouldn't be any risk in using the same mythological characters that Final Fantasy happens to use. But you're making a game inspired by a Final Fantasy game, so you want to minimize similarities from that specific game series, and instead aim for generalities of the genre as a whole.

 

If you are lacking ideas and are only familiar with the Final Fantasy mythological characters, then go to your local library, and ask them for "Andrew Lang's Colored Fairy Books". This is a series of books by someone (Andrew Lang) who went and studied and translated hundreds and hundreds of different mythological stories from dozens of different cultures. Each book ("Green Fairy Book", "Blue Fairy Book", "Red Fairy Book", etc...) has fairy tales researched and translated from a different culture (meaning some of the books will have different cultures' variations of the same stories).

 

Don't be turned off by the term "fairy tales", these aren't just for children. Infact, when he originally translated them, he was verbally attacked for their utter "unreality, brutality, and escapism" that is "harmful for young readers". These aren't Disney's Peter Pan fairies, these are European Fay, which are closer to JRR Tolkien's Elves - but malicious. These aren't Disney's Aladdin Genies, these are the genies that flay the skin off people they are angry at. These aren't Disney's fairy tales. These are what Disney was inspired by, before Disney "cleaned them up" for a young audience.

 

Chances are, they'll already have several in that library. If they don't have it, ask them to get another library to send them the books. They'll charge you the shipping cost, but nothing else. Your tax money pays for the library, use it.

 

Alternatively, since the books were written a hundred years ago, their copyrights have expired and they are now in the public domain. You can download all of them, legally, for free, in PDF or other forms. If you got a Kindle, send the PDFs to your Kindle, and get reading. Or download from your Kindle directly, so they are free through Amazon's store also. And since they are public domain, if you want physical copies, you can probably get them for fairly cheap - especially if used.

 

If you're more interested in Middle Eastern mythology, try 1001 Arabian Nights. Also in the public domain. Also free electronically.

 

 

Reference the ideas, not the implementations. Make some great, something yours - not something living in the shadow of other people's greats.

I don't doubt your creativity, nor your capability. I don't think you are lazy either. The only question is, will you let your desire to play off of Final Fantasy's greatness hold your own game back from becoming something great in itself?

Edited by Servant of the Lord

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I'm not a lawyer, so I'm only giving you my guesses and 'safe bets'.

 

A) What about Phoenix Tears, Phoenix Feathers? Both have been used before, people will instantly know what they are for. Heck, deep fry the bird itself! laugh.png

Seriously, what about Phoenix Hearts? Eating the heart of a dragon is supposed to give you wisdom. Maybe eating the heart of a phoenix will revive you from the ashes, instead of the phoenix being revived.

 

b04936a2cd.png

 

The key here, is you're too frequently stopping at 'copy' the well-recognized Final Fantasy things, and not moving beyond that to 'transforming' and 'combining'. I'm sure you're creative enough in other areas, but in the 'recognizables' of Final Fantasy, you're not wanting to move beyond copying, but that is precisely where the legal danger arises.

 

B) Common ailments I don't think are a problem. They are generic enough that hundreds of games use them. Whereas Pheonix Downs occur very rarely in RPGs, and are mostly only famous from the exact series you are getting inspiration from, ailments are used everywhere.

But don't stop at just the Final Fantasy ones - add your own as well. And mix up the terminology. Some games use 'Venom', 'Plague', 'Disease', as alternatives to 'Poison'. But really, 'poison' isn't going to get you into trouble. But be creative here.

 

C) "Potions" are fine. "Hi Potions" are an exact spelling of what Final Fantasy used (especially since you have zero need to abbreviate 'High' as 'Hi'). On it's own, any minor little thing like that won't cause you a problem. Taking together, dozens and dozens of minor similarities can work against you.

 

Elixirs, Potions, Draughts, Flasks, Drinks, Brews, etc... Red, Green, White, Blue, Rancid, Spoilt, Strong, Lively, Weak, Weary, Odd, Unusual, Transparent, Opaque...

It is zero difficulty at all to come up with new names. Many games use herbs. You could also consider powders.

 

D) Do you know how huge mythology is? Even if you avoided the Final Fantasy summons, you'd still have hundreds more characters than you'd know what to do with. But if you "just so happen" to, out of hundreds of mythologies from dozens of cultures, choose the exact same characters from the game you are inspired by, that hints of more than just inspiration.

 

If you were making an entirely different game, there wouldn't be any risk in using the same mythological characters that Final Fantasy happens to use. But you're making a game inspired by a Final Fantasy game, so you want to minimize similarities from that specific game series, and instead aim for generalities of the genre as a whole.

 

If you are lacking ideas and are only familiar with the Final Fantasy mythological characters, then go to your local library, and ask them for "Andrew Lang's Colored Fairy Books". This is a series of books by someone (Andrew Lang) who went and studied and translated hundreds and hundreds of different mythological stories from dozens of different cultures. Each book ("Green Fairy Book", "Blue Fairy Book", "Red Fairy Book", etc...) has fairy tales researched and translated from a different culture (meaning some of the books will have different cultures' variations of the same stories).

 

Don't be turned off by the term "fairy tales", these aren't just for children. Infact, when he originally translated them, he was verbally attacked for their utter "unreality, brutality, and escapism" that is "harmful for young readers". These aren't Disney's Peter Pan fairies, these are European Fay, which are closer to JRR Tolkien's Elves - but malicious. These aren't Disney's Aladdin Genies, these are the genies that flay the skin off people they are angry at. These aren't Disney's fairy tales. These are what Disney was inspired by, before Disney "cleaned them up" for a young audience.

 

Chances are, they'll already have several in that library. If they don't have it, ask them to get another library to send them the books. They'll charge you the shipping cost, but nothing else. Your tax money pays for the library, use it.

 

Alternatively, since the books were written a hundred years ago, their copyrights have expired and they are now in the public domain. You can download all of them, legally, for free, in PDF or other forms. If you got a Kindle, send the PDFs to your Kindle, and get reading. Or download from your Kindle directly, so they are free through Amazon's store also. And since they are public domain, if you want physical copies, you can probably get them for fairly cheap - especially if used.

 

If you're more interested in Middle Eastern mythology, try 1001 Arabian Nights. Also in the public domain. Also free electronically.

 

 

Reference the ideas, not the implementations. Make some great, something yours - not something living in the shadow of other people's greats.

I don't doubt your creativity, nor your capability. I don't think you are lazy either. The only question is, will you let your desire to play off of Final Fantasy's greatness hold your own game back from becoming something great in itself?

 

A lot of the problem lies in the scale of the game. This is a card game, so there are going to be hundreds (and if it is successful at all, hopefully thousands) of cards! Each card has to make sense with the lore, and each card has to be unique within the game itself. I only have notes for a hundred or so card ideas, and already there is a poison and an epidemic card. I want it to read like a book, so I would avoid abbreviations and numbers etc, so while I would go for potion as it is instantly recognisable and makes sense, I Wouldn't use hi potions.  Generally there will be rather a lot of cards covering rather a lot of variations.  As with the phenoix tears idea, I considered it, but I already had an idea for a "cry of the pheonix" card, and phenoix down works on multiple levels, down is good word play!  I could come up with something else, and in fact, I could just avoid much of real world mythology, and go for something almost entirely new. I'm not sure if doing so would benefit the game or the story, and may just make more work than is needed, for not much gain. 

 

I will review my ideas and come to some conclusion this weekend, I suspect. 

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A lot of the problem lies in the scale of the game. This is a card game, so there are going to be hundreds (and if it is successful at all, hopefully thousands) of cards!


And so, amongst the thousands of mythological characters and creatures, why do you need to use the fifteen or so that Final Fantasy uses? I'd only use them as "backup ideas" to use, after you already use 100 other non-Final Fantasy characters. Because by then, it's clear you're establishing your own lore and only happenstancely coincides with theirs in a few minor places.

 

Sounds like it's more of a problem in the scale of your existing knowledge of mythology, rather than the scale of the game itself, if the absence of fifteen characters bankrupts you of ideas. smile.png 
 

As with the phenoix tears idea, I considered it, but I already had an idea for a "cry of the pheonix" card

So why not Phoenix heart, talons, blood, or feathers?
 

phenoix down works on multiple levels, down is good word play!

Yes, but it's not wordplay you came up with. wink.png On it's own, it won't cause you problems, but you need to be careful how many "just one more thing", you're going to steal from the game your game is based on.

I'm providing you with genuine, original, creative, original sources of alternative ideas that are perfect fits. You don't want them merely because you're not used to them, and you want Final Fantasy's because you're used to theirs. But their world, their lore, belongs to them. You're used to it only because they made it popular. So you want to use their popularity to further your game.

That's understandable... but the more you take from them, the riskier it gets. If there are easy replacements that don't ruin your game, use the easy replacements and make your game more original.
 

could come up with something else, and in fact, I could just avoid much of real world mythology


You jump from one extreme to another. Of the fifteen (maybe as high as twenty) Final Fantasy mythological creatures and characters, amongst literally thousands and thousands, you're saying if you can't use those few Final Fantasy ones, you're just not going to use any mythology at all? huh.png 

All I'm saying is, you can make the game you want. The game you are already imagining. With only minor tweaks, minor changes, that don't ruin the atmosphere or theme or gameplay of your game. You just have to reach a little higher up the tree, instead of taking the apples off the table that someone else has already picked.

Yes, it's nice that there are pre-made characters someone else has already wrapped up nice and neat... but they used them for their game.

 

If you have some things similar, that's fine. Just make sure to have so much more thats dissimilar, that the similar stuff is surrounded by a sea of non-similar. If players saw a screenshot of your game without any details about who made it, and they don't think "Final Fantasy", then you're probably safe.

 

While intended for trademark infringement, and we're talking about copyrights, it's still good to think about morons in a hurry. If only a moron in a hurry would think SquareEnix made your game (without seeing any title screen), you're *probably* safe. But if even a moron in a hurry would have zero confusion, you're almost certainly safe.

 

Since I can't see screenshots of your game, and am only hearing your questions about what's similar, I might be assuming the similarities are worse than they actually are. When your game gets closer to release, show it to a few people, without mentioning Final Fantasy or Triple Triad. Ask them what the art and characters remind them of. And if they mention that the game feels like or reminds them of Final Fantasy, then you'll know you might be too close to the cliff (Again, the ideas behind the gameplay itself is fair game to use, and, when marketing the game, you can mention it was inspired by Triple Triad).

 

Good luck on your project, I enjoyed Triple Triad; your game sounds like it might be fun. smile.png

Edited by Servant of the Lord

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A lot of the problem lies in the scale of the game. This is a card game, so there are going to be hundreds (and if it is successful at all, hopefully thousands) of cards!


And so, amongst the thousands of mythological characters and creatures, why do you need to use the fifteen or so that Final Fantasy uses? I'd only use them as "backup ideas" to use, after you already use 100 other non-Final Fantasy characters. Because by then, it's clear you're establishing your own lore and only happenstancely coincides with theirs in a few minor places.

 

Sounds like it's more of a problem in the scale of your existing knowledge of mythology, rather than the scale of the game itself, if the absence of fifteen characters bankrupts you of ideas. smile.png 
 

As with the phenoix tears idea, I considered it, but I already had an idea for a "cry of the pheonix" card

So why not Phoenix heart, talons, blood, or feathers?
 

phenoix down works on multiple levels, down is good word play!

Yes, but it's not wordplay you came up with. wink.png On it's own, it won't cause you problems, but you need to be careful how many "just one more thing", you're going to steal from the game your game is based on.

I'm providing you with genuine, original, creative, original sources of alternative ideas that are perfect fits. You don't want them merely because you're not used to them, and you want Final Fantasy's because you're used to theirs. But their world, their lore, belongs to them. You're used to it only because they made it popular. So you want to use their popularity to further your game.

That's understandable... but the more you take from them, the riskier it gets. If there are easy replacements that don't ruin your game, use the easy replacements and make your game more original.
 

could come up with something else, and in fact, I could just avoid much of real world mythology


You jump from one extreme to another. Of the fifteen (maybe as high as twenty) Final Fantasy mythological creatures and characters, amongst literally thousands and thousands, you're saying if you can't use those few Final Fantasy ones, you're just not going to use any mythology at all? huh.png 

All I'm saying is, you can make the game you want. The game you are already imagining. With only minor tweaks, minor changes, that don't ruin the atmosphere or theme or gameplay of your game. You just have to reach a little higher up the tree, instead of taking the apples off the table that someone else has already picked.

Yes, it's nice that there are pre-made characters someone else has already wrapped up nice and neat... but they used them for their game.

 

If you have some things similar, that's fine. Just make sure to have so much more thats dissimilar, that the similar stuff is surrounded by a sea of non-similar. If players saw a screenshot of your game without any details about who made it, and they don't think "Final Fantasy", then you're probably safe.

 

While intended for trademark infringement, and we're talking about copyrights, it's still good to think about morons in a hurry. If only a moron in a hurry would think SquareEnix made your game (without seeing any title screen), you're *probably* safe. But if even a moron in a hurry would have zero confusion, you're almost certainly safe.

 

Since I can't see screenshots of your game, and am only hearing your questions about what's similar, I might be assuming the similarities are worse than they actually are. When your game gets closer to release, show it to a few people, without mentioning Final Fantasy or Triple Triad. Ask them what the art and characters remind them of. And if they mention that the game feels like or reminds them of Final Fantasy, then you'll know you might be too close to the cliff (Again, the ideas behind the gameplay itself is fair game to use, and, when marketing the game, you can mention it was inspired by Triple Triad).

 

Good luck on your project, I enjoyed Triple Triad; your game sounds like it might be fun. smile.png

 

 

Its not really the summons that I am concerned about, its status effects. Though I did plan to use a few summons that are similar, based on various lists I found online (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type#Fire)    and also, I would want them to be known. But I still don't have a clear story for the world, I think potentially using existing mythology doesn't make sense with some of the ideas I'm pondering over. I may used one or two and go for original or reimagined/named versions of mythological characters and weapons. Regardless, I don't think they can claim ownership of mythology... so I think I could probably be safe using odin or ifrit. Though In the initial release of my game I will probably only have 20 summon creature cards, and only a couple would be the same. I will try and do some world building and evaluate my options.

 

Pheonix down just sounds so much better... but I will try and come up with an alternative. 

 

Little of triple triad remains in my idea, other than face values and grid based play. And I somehow suspect I may be the only person that thinks its a good concept, its an idea I've been thinking of for a while now and I've only just started exploring ideas for it last week. at this rate I'll probably just lose hope for it and put it aside! 

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