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jlowe64

Do I have to be a programmer to make a game?

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jlowe64    122
Do I have to be a programmer to make a game? Do I have to know C++ or Java to put a game together, could I just use 3d Studio max or Character studio to make a game?? Help!!

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henryx    128
The core of computer games is computer programming and you can''t really get away from that. However, there are packages such as FLASH5 which will allow you to create games with minimal programming knowledge. There are also packages available (can''t remember the names of them) which allow you to put games together by defining object interactions etc. with the minimal of programming - more like a scripting language. My advice however, is that if you are interested in creating compute games, then start to learn the basics of programming.

hope this helps

henry

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MarkyD    127
The only thing even resembling a game I can think of that is possible to make with just 3D Studio Max or Character Studio is a slide show. Admittingly, I have never used them, but really if you want to make any half-decent game, programming is required.

(Unless by "game" you ment a board game or something...)

~ There''s no substitute for failure ~

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jocke    122
Like they said above, learn programming.
It will pay of bigtime compared to using packages
such as FLASH5. I have never used any of those packages
before myself, but i''m certain that you couldn''t even begin
to create the same stuff you could with programming.
Sure, you could make stuff like BackPacker and the like,
but if you''r dreaming of making the next HalfLife, programming
is the only way to go. IMO

BTW, what is the most advanced game you guys have seen
that was created with one of those packages?

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jlowe64    122
thank you all for clearing that up,now that i know i have to learn how to program, what do you suggest i shold learn, C++ or Java, VB, VC++ ?

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VC++ is just Microsoft''s version of C++. Not too much different (a few things like ints aren''t wiped out after for loops) but nothing too great. C++ clearly stands above the rest in game programming. Your choice is whether to buy Microsoft''s VC++, Borland''s, or some other company''s. I would suggest Microsoft''s because it''s the easiest to implement DirectX into, which is what you probably will be using, unles you want to get involved with Open GL. Couldn''t help ya with that cuz I don''t know anything about that. Hope that helps.

--Vic--

PS: I''m guessing your next question is where to begin. There are a few tutorials online, but I''d suggest you get a book, just to use as a reference until you become familiar with the help. Pretty much, you want anything that has step by step stuff in it. Usually a good idea is to go to a college bookstore and get whatever book they use in the C++ class.

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polly    532
Alternatively, you could just get very rich and get a bunch of people to do it for you, then live off the sales...

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by jocke
BTW, what is the most advanced game you guys have seen
that was created with one of those packages?


That would be Myst (HyperCard)

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
No, you do not have to know how to program to make a game.
My current team is 25 people, 8 are programmers.

Some Alternative routes include..

1) Become a tester at a game company. If your good, you can move up the ranks. Many artists on my current team were once testers here. Our Associate Producer was once a tester here as well. A programmer on my last project was a tester before he even know how to code. He ended up being one of the better programmers ive worked with.

2) Go to Art School. Learn how to make really cool looking art or learn how to animate well. My current team has 14 artists. Some are really good at building models, but suck at animating them. Others are the complete opposite. Weve got some world builders, some world object/character modelers, some animators, and finally a couple special effects guys (These guys are the masters of Maya and MEL..Mayas scripting language.).

3) Start writing, a lot. Game companies are starting to hire full-time writers and designers to help with just that, game design. Make sure to have companies sign NDAS, Non Disclosure Agreements, before you show them your work. Its a sad thing, but if an idea is good, it''ll be used. Your only legal protection for this is an NDA with the company your showing your work to. In this industry, a good idea can mean millions.


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BlueFrog    122
ok, my two cents....hehehe

This is purely from a Linux perspective, so if I don''t help you...well, I got it off my chest anyways

C++ is a good language, and is a superset of C..meaning, if you code by the ANSI standards, C code will compile with a C++ compiler.

Most API''s that I''ve seen(and this is not just for gaming/graphics) are C API''s with bindings to C++ to implement them in a OO way.(Again, this might not be the 100% truth when using VC++ and such which is MS). So, you have the full C documenatation for the API and some shoddy, half written docs for the C++ bindings.......and when you starting out, it''s no fun.

So am I saying rather learn C...by no means...just trying to warn you that some C++ bindings are half documented and this shouldn''t scare you....I use C myself, as I like working with the API''s directly.

Useless info talk finished

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metamorphic    122
quote:
Original post by BlueFrog
So am I saying rather learn C...by no means...just trying to warn you that some C++ bindings are half documented and this shouldn''t scare you....I use C myself, as I like working with the API''s directly.

Useless info talk finished




unfortunatly you must also understand and be able to impliment classes which are a feature of C++. if you code for windows, you cant really get around knowing classes as windows are created using.... yep classes. It really a matter of chossing between C and C++. Ok also ignore what everyone says about C/C++ being hard to understand. i have done 1 year of QBASIC at college nd i have had no problems with it so far.

There are also 2 types of C programmers. Ones that learn C, then learn C++ after and have no problems. The second type learn C, then try to learn C++ but find its too difficult to drop there old habits with C as some things have changed. Thats why i wen straight for C++. IMO you should do the same. Although its just up to you personal preference. If you get a C/C++ book and you find it too hard to follow, learn an easier lanuague like BASIC, or Visual Basic, prehaps even a scripting languague like java-script or PHP.

Hope this helps

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by jlowe64
Do I have to be a programmer to make a game? Do I have to know C++ or Java to put a game together, could I just use 3d Studio max or Character studio to make a game?? Help!!

You COULD just hook up with someone like me (I can program but I can''t draw for sh*t), and enter a nice symbiotic game-developing relationship.

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TerranFury    142
You''re right about the windows. Here''s a better example: DirectX uses COM. This is an OO model. Although there are ways to use DirectX from within C, it''s significantly more complicated. C++ is the way to go if you''re going to be using DirectX. If you''re like most game developers, you will. Even if you decide to use OpenGL for graphics, you''ll still use a subset of DirectX for something else: probably DirectInput and DirectSound.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Yep, just a structure
struct WNDCLASS {...}
struct WNDCLASSEX {...}

Borland''s C++ compiler is free but command line based - takes a bit of getting used to if you''re "gui-centric".
MSVC is more widely used - the price varies from US$70 upwards.

If you want to get your feet wet programming windows but don''t want to spend any money you can check out GCC/Cygwin/Ming etc - last I check there was a lot of setup required. Alternatively you can go for LCCWin32 about a 3 Mb download that self installs and is otherwise fairly easy to use - but is C only. The rest is up to you - there''s a lot to learn but there''s a lot of info on the www - and a lot of helpful people too.
There was a recent article about free dev tools - maybe someone can dig up the link.

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BlueFrog    122
Metamorphic....hehe, thanks for the concern, but I have no trouble with C++.....I was brought up on OOP Java back in the old days, so I understand the OO world well....well enough to know that it is not always the solution(objects that is).

Most C/C++ software is still mostly written in C...well in Linux that is.

Look objects are cool, I''ve written many a OO app, but I guess I like to go back to ground level most of the time..it''s that speed thing you see.

Anyway, I have no idea how the windows world works, it sounds like a classic case of Bill forcing you to do things his way...from the posts saying that "you can''t escape classes/objects".

Like I said before, I just get fed up learning an API and then having to read the specifics on the C++ bindings, which are most of the time half documented....as an example take Gtk+ which is a C API...well documented...then you wanna do a pure C++(object) implementation...and boom the C++ bindings(Gtk--) are incomplete.

Maybe I''m just lazy

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superpig    1825
(A)pplication (P)rogramming (I)nterface.

I use C++, which serves for just about everything, although I''ve been writing some utils using Visual J++ recently, and it''s _so_ much easier. Especially things like the IO routines are god-like - no more messing around with dummy variables, or trying to encode/decode/classify image files. Just Image.loadImage() / Image.save().

If you''re not planning on making really high-power stuff - that is, you''re going to make web games, or the oldskool puzzle/arcade games, I would recommend Java. If you use the AWT, then your games are instantly cross platform. And of course there are other layers available for it. I don''t know Microsoft''s plans on Java support for DirectX, but I do know that at least D3DRM is supported.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates

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benstr    1102
BlueFrog: Speed, it''s the speed thing? If C++ is slow for you, it''s not the language, it''s the user. Oh, and just because you know Java doesn''t mean you know OOP. You can easily write a non-OOP application in Java, I have seen too many of those. The same goes for C++.

As an answer to the original post. I would learn C++ first, then I would learn the differences between C++ and C. I would also try to learn OOP (Object Oriented Programming), maybe I would even check out UML before I even started with the programming. Object Orientation can be used for so much more than programming, and it will absolutely help you understand how to use the C++ language better.

An API (Application Programming Interface) is the interface to, let''s say, a library you use to do something with. It could be a C API with a set of functions for rendering etc. (Example: OpenGL) or a number of classes for doing the same thing (Example: DirectX). Let''s say you have an mp3 playing lib that you want to use. The API could be one function called playMP3( const char* strFileToPlay ) and behind it there would probably be a myriad of other functions and strcuts and God knows what..

-Benny-

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Alimonster    185
Yep. Except... there are loads of small Java applet games out there. They''re not very good. If you plan on writing a stand-alone Java app, I''ll salute you.

There''s an API for Java called Java3D. This uses OpenGL or DirectX for proper 3D acceleration. There was a game made recently by Liquid Edge Games, called RoboForge that shows the potential. A full Java3D application might be a more interesting project than a Java applet, though of course it''s gonna be more complex (probably too much for a beginner to finish).

I''ll say this about games programming: I see so many posts saying things like... "I learned how to start up Windows yesterday. I want to create a game like Quake. How do I do the game?" (or things to that effect ). I''ll say this loud and clear:

*START SMALL*

If you try a large scale project *you will give up*. Remember that most games take teams of excellent coders years to do. Start off simple, doing things like Tetris, etc., and work your way up. Pay yer dues.

Alistair Keys

"There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on."
-- Robert Byrne

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