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diseaser2002

RPG Question.

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I wonder why most(and also famous) RPG''s are always set in medieval times like Diablo 2 and Baldur''s Gate and also MMORPGs like Everquest. Why cant the game still be like Diablo 2 but only with guns and laser and other science fiction weapons instead of swords and spears and arrows. and the spells instead of magic and scrolls, why not have computers and spells like electromagnetic waves. I know there are games like System Shock 2 that are in modern times but those kind of games are in 3rd-Person Shooter(3D) genre not like Baldur''s Gate where most of the game is in 2D graphics. For example, here a game idea. the protagonist is a um..a becomes an orphan when his parents are murdered when alien attacked earth. when he''s big he seeks revenge against the aliens along with a few other friends namely um a computer geek, a tough gangster-like guy(sort of like the Barbarian) and other characters against the aliens. games will be armed with maybe computers, holograms and weapons like guns and laser. the armor could be kevlar and the shield maybe a trash can cover. Obviuosly there won''t be much varienty in items compared to diablo 2 and other games, so that can give space and time for a programmer to include more features in the game like improving the games graphics, aswell as adding bigger levels and more detailed monsters.

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Actually I was looking in the local software store and I saw a game entitled "Arcanum" which appeared to be basicly Baldur's Gate with two exceptions. 1)a map editor (omg) and 2)weapons like flame throwers etc.

The reason this isn't done? I would say if you mean blending fantasy with scifi/future its mostly balancing issues (no your +4 plate mail of invincibility doesn't stop the -4 tactical thermonuclear missile launcher shot).

Also, the primary role of the RPG genre is for people to lose themselves in the atmosphere and so forth while unfortunately the current demand is for the fantasy setting. The whole rpg/scifi thing, while if handled well can be exellent (I enjoyed Fallout), with current standards (ex. must have a minimum of 1000 people servers to be award winning, see EQ or Dark Ages of Camelot) to put people together with access to weapons like rifles etc is really not balance friendly. If they were in the future guns should (depending upon storyline) be in some extent of abundance and as such the lvl 1 newbies with revolvers would not do well against the lvl 50's with lascannons.

I think what I am trying to say is that it is commonly accepted that future=guns which while entertaining makes gaining experience have limited enticement as no one can really ever be immune to a grenade or what have you.

Wow, I've had waaaaaay too much iced coffee....I hope that stuff made sense...



Edited by - kordova on November 15, 2001 8:42:35 PM

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Nope, but remember, in these settings, armor is near non-existant... Unless you go for full-body Powered Armor, but... err... Well, when a guy walks into an area in his armor, waving a huge minigun, killing random people... Those random people might join together, and totally kill him of...

Or, when a group terrorises a community, other people might hear from it, and decide to take revenge, book passage on a shuttle to that area, and start to kick arse

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The Fallout series was very popular and they weren''t set in a fantasy world.

Maybe one of the reasons a high proportion of the big-name RPGs are fantasy-based is because a high proportion of them are being made by the same studio and they have a license to do AD&D games.

Just one possibility.

R.

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I forget the name of it, but there was recently a PenAndPaper RPG released that was based in a Jules Vern type of world, i.e. with flintlock guns and a lot of 19th century stuff going on. Though, if you can take a storyrpg with themed settings, the wild arms series and xenogears of the top of my head.

:: Inmate2993
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."

[Edited by - Inmate2993 on March 28, 2007 6:48:15 PM]

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There are actually lots of futuristic RPG''s out there if you look around hard enough. I''ll just point out a few of the ones I''ve stumbled upon.

Final Fantasy VII is semi-futuristic. The city you start in uses all the Earth''s mako energy to power all the shiny things. There''s a transit system that takes you all around the place. There''s a railroad cemetary full of broken down trains, showing that they''ve moved on from locomotive transportation. And there are motorcycles and trucks and cars and everything. Sigh, everytime I think about this game, I love it more and more. Of course, once you leave Midgar and get to other cities, they carry the familiar "Village" look. But the contrast between that and Midgar makes it cool. Cloud, the main character, uses a huge sword. Barret, another playable character, has a gun attached to his arm. That''s technology. But, you run into the point that someone above made. In the end, a sword probably isn''t as deadly as a machine gun. The fact that it takes Barret up to 3 rounds to kill a soldier really makes getting shot look painless.

Final Fantasy VIII was another futuristic RPG. There were space ships and airships and super-high-tech military academy sorta thingies. There''s this one giant mechanical spider you have to fight. I don''t wanna spoil it for anyone that hasn''t played it yet, but here''s some advice. Only kill it if you wanna miss one of the coolest FMV''s in the world.

Parasite Eve is really the most realistic RPG I''ve played. If I''m not mistaken, it''s set in the year 2000 or something like that. The main character is apart of the police force or something and uses real handguns and stuff. No swords or anything. And she battles some wierd parasite thing. I dunno. I only played the game for a couple minutes. But the thing is, after playing all these RPGs set in totally midieval times, Parasite Eve just had a different feel. It just felt strange. And the same thing happened when I played FF9. It was back to the cartoonish midieval look. I wasn''t used to it after playing two Final Fantasies that had futuristic technology mixed with the midieval times. Don''t get me wrong. I loved FF9. It''s just wierd taking such a leap.

The Phantasy Star series is a group of games that were for the Sega Genesis. Old school. But they''re all futuristic if I remember right. If you have a dreamcast, you should try Phantasy Star Online. It''s fun (if you''re not already addicted to EQ like I was).

I think we should call it the "Star Wars" effect. In that movie, fantasy (light-sabers) met science fiction (blasters). The reason it''s such a great movie is that light-sabers really do beat out blasters by deflecting the laser shots. That''s creativity. Final Fantasy VII and VIII were great games, and I''ll always love them, but you have to admit it. When forming a party to go take on the big bad bosses of evil, if you were thinking straight, you thought about which characters would work best with the sword-swinging Cloud/Squall before you thought about adding in the gun-blazing Barret/.......see? I can''t even remember the cowboy in FF8''s name. Only reason I remembered Barret was because his skin''s the same color as mine.

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Oh I just remembered this one right after I clicked the done button. Chrono Trigger is another RPG with futuristic technology. Crono uses blades, while Lucca uses guns. That''s technology. But the Final Fantasy thing happens again. By the end of the game, Crono''s swords are atleast 4 times as strong as Lucca''s guns. I mean, what is she shooting out of that thing? Water?

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There are more futuristic MMORPG''s aswell.
even where they are using swords next to long range weaponry.
Balance is an issue here though.

just take a look at StarWars galaxies (in dev) and Anarchy Online.

I just think that most of the interest people have still goes out to fantasy settings as mentioned in earlier posts.

greetz,

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Space is unknown and wild .
Magic is unknown and wonderfull.

That''s enough to make star wars the most popular movies ever.


In fact you could use star wars story and translate it with minor changes in a pure medfan world.




-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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quote:
Original post by Ronald Forbes
Oh I just remembered this one right after I clicked the done button. Chrono Trigger is another RPG with futuristic technology. Crono uses blades, while Lucca uses guns. That''s technology. But the Final Fantasy thing happens again. By the end of the game, Crono''s swords are atleast 4 times as strong as Lucca''s guns. I mean, what is she shooting out of that thing? Water?


Vampire the Masquerade suffered from this as well.

You could kill someone quicker with a sword you got from 1000 years ago than you could with a minigun. Probably a balance issue, but it was kind of stupid.

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Yes! Elves rock!

lol

I played an adventure with a paper-and-dice RPG, the setting was medieval, and our GM had this guy from the future show up, carrying a sniper rifle. He really blew the ever-living-s**t ou of everything he shot at. I really liked that aspect of the game, because we had to befriend this guy, who could fight ok, but found our swords too heavy to wield. It was a nice touch.

There''s no point to this post...

George D. Filiotis
Are you in support of the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide? You should be!

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It does raise an interesting question as to why all RPGs have to have the fantasy setting. I know StoryRPGs are starting to mature (you can use your own words to describe the transition), however the whole fantasy thing still has a significant impact on how the gameplay will be.

:: Inmate2993
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."

[Edited by - Inmate2993 on March 28, 2007 6:08:37 PM]

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quote:
Original post by Inmate2993
It does raise an interesting question as to why all RPGs have to have the fantasy setting.

well, it boils down to two things:
(1) the people developing the games want to make them this way.
(2) the people buying the games like them.
as far as hobby projects and whatnot go, i guess #2 isn''t important; whereas with professional developers #2 is more important.
dude, make any game you want, nobody''s stopping you.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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Well, yeah. Though, It might be a bit on the part of publishers not wanting to take the risk of selling an unproven change to a genre. But thats an entirely different argument altogether and belongs in a different forum.

:: Inmate2993
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."

[Edited by - Inmate2993 on March 28, 2007 6:01:58 PM]

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I agree immensely I tired of medieval based rpgs. I dont tire of fantasy based rpgs though. I wouldnt mind seeing a game based in the old D&D Spelljammer universe or Dark Sun for that matter. I also dont understand why people dont access other cultures like medieval China which would make a hell of an rpg with all the martial arts and chi abilities one could add. You could make quite an impressive rpg dealing with Egypt, other parts of Africa. There was a game called Earthbound by Nintendo for the Super Nes that was contemporary, this was one of the greatest rpgs ive ever played, it was fun, fresh and new and it felt great to be playing an rpg that took place in my time period, I recommend everbody download this from an emulator, it can teach you alot about contemporary rpg design, as well as humor.

Other RPG types that could be used


Native American
Mayan/Incan/Aztec
Egyptian
Chinese
Mobland Chicago
Goldrush California
Industrial Revolution
Vikings
Christopher Columbus or other World Explorers
Space Exploration
Sea Exploration in the vein of Seaquest or the Abyss


Pen and Papers dying for videogame versions

Palladiumbooks has some of the greatest pen and papers screaming for videogame versions
Rifts
Nightbane
Recon
Robotech
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
After the Bomb

Movies that should have rpgs (remember rpgs dont have to be turn based, who says you cant make a fast paced rpg? with great action?)

The Matrix
Starship Troopers (yes it can be done, use your imagination)
Harry Potter
Aliens
Predator

Properties that would make fantastic MMORPGS if somebody took the time to do it

GI Joe
Transformers
Starship Troopers
Pokemon
Dragonball Z
Gundam
Mechwarrior
Palladium books Rifts, Recon, Nightbane
Robotech/Macross
Shadowrun
Any D&D book


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here are my 2 cents..

i feel the reason that games using a fantasy/magic setting (Diablo 2 for example) are the most successful because players feel more powerful with them.

what i mean is, when you''re in a fantasy world, you try and become stronger by learning magic, learning new fighting techniques, better spells, getting more EXP, and such. the user feels somewhat impowered because their own character is getting stronger because of themselves.

but in a game where you''re in a super-advaned world set far in the future, you''re character''s strength relies soley on the technology. meaning, to get better, you need more advanced weaponry and gadgets. therefore, it feels like it doesnt require skill, just enough money to buy the best stuff.

what i love about FF7 is that its in very technological world, but the look and feel has a quaint medieval style to it (all the world''s villages, etc). so it feels almost as if you''re playing a fantasy game, and the technology is just a bonus.

i don''t know if i made sense with that..eh, oh well.

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ive played tones of rpg''s
and one i saw at a game store a while back took place in the cowboy days but with one strange twist, madscientist charicters.
this brought in human inginuity and inteligence to construct what ever the charicter or gm could think of within limits(no FTL space travel) or at least anything that wouldn''t take away the whole western theme. either way it was a very interesting setting for a game

another was a game for super nes was shadowrun. im sure if you look hard enough you can find plenty of prgs with a cyberpunk/tech world setting

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Haven''t any of you played Shadowrun for the SNES??? It''s one of the best RPGs EVER!!!! And it was futuristic!!

Yeah, the weapons are way better than a sword. But the armor is way better than a tin plate! So it balances out...

Just play it!

}+TITANIUM+{

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quote:
Original post by Seriema
Haven''t any of you played Shadowrun for the SNES??? It''s one of the best RPGs EVER!!!! And it was futuristic!!

Yeah, the weapons are way better than a sword. But the armor is way better than a tin plate! So it balances out...

Just play it!

}+TITANIUM+{

Agreed

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quote:
Original post by simbiant
hmeaning, to get better, you need more advanced weaponry and gadgets. therefore, it feels like it doesnt require skill, just enough money to buy the best stuff.

what i love about FF7 is that its in very technological world, but the look and feel has a quaint medieval style to it (all the world''s villages, etc). so it feels almost as if you''re playing a fantasy game, and the technology is just a bonus.


That surely is a point.
But I think AngelStar''s suggestions are GREAT!
Only point with that is, it requires LOT''s of research...
For most Europeans it''s quite easy to imagine life in the medieval ages. Both, players and developers have easy access to information on it whereas any "exotic" scenarios may suffer from
lacking background information.

It requires alot of knowlegde to understand i.e. ancient African
or Asian cultures. On the other side it would surely be fun
exploring such a world and gaining some knowlegde by playing
a great RGG


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There are 2 relatively recent games for you (one previously mentioned):

Arcanum: Has both magic and technology. The cool thing is that the more you embrace one, the less useful you are in the other (there''s a sliding scale). If I improve my technological skills a lot, suddenly my effectiveness with magic is lessened. Plus, if you embrace magic, certain NPCs will barely even talk to you (and the same the other way). There are a whole slew of spells, and on the converse side, there are a lot of technological "disciplines" which allow you to construct inventions and complete other technological tasks.

Wizardry 8:
Set in a future world with magic and swords. Right now I have a "normal" team, but also have a robot in tow. The base concept is that your spaceship has crash-landed on a planet, and both technology and swords and sorcery are amply involved. You can play your normal classes, and things such as "gadgeteers", which can combine various items to form new ones (and has a really cool gun which he improves as his engineering skill improves)

I like a lot in both models, and as my engine progresses, so will my idea as to how my RPG world will run.

-Chris

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Wow..good thing posts never really "die" (see dates).

Anyway, as far as I see it what it really comes down to in the scifi vs dnd style fantasy or the merge is really just balancing. As I and another stated it uses the mix of guns, steam engines, mechanical creatures with magic, swords and chain mail. While I have actually played this game through pretty far I only now realize something. As these sorts of games try to be relatively realistic, relatively mind you, with encumbrance, strength and so forth, the fact that one of my characters'' elephant guns does little more damage than another''s ordinary axe is rather puzzling. I understand balancing, but couldn''t balancing be better achieved if such weapons were scarce? Its not feasible to ever balance daggers with chain guns other than to make one less likely to come across, and perhaps give it very limited ammo even once acquired...I found the rifles etc. quite easy to acquire if you concentrate on them.

Just my ramblings on the topic.

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