I think at least part of a great solution to grief players in a MMORPG is to actually design the game so it needs such players...but of course this would be a radical departure from the typical trappings found in most RPGs (hence I can''t seem to get many hardcore RPG players excited about the game I have been designing)

I also think many current solutions to the problem create "catch-22" situations...if a player can get someone causeing him grief kicked out or even banned...then what is to stop a bad player from accuseing innocent others causeing them to get kicked-off/banned?...the more "checks-n-balances" features you add to counter such actions the more "loop-holes" develop to get around them...the most effective solution is to remember the KISS principal (Keep It Simple, Stupid)...Such undesireable players will always pop up into such games...it''s part of human nature (not defending them..just a simple fact given a large and diverse group of people...at least a few of them will be more interested in tormenting others then playing the game)...the simplest solution is to take advantage of such players...use thier unusual "skills" to the advantage of the whole game playing experience...how?

1. drop the Tolkeen/D&D RPG trappings...the pen-n-paper RPGers have enjoyed games for years that have nothing even resembleing a elf, dragon..even some concept like magic in them...create new worlds.
2. forget about real world realisam...but concetrate on the game world realisam as it relates to the gameplay...remember the golden rule of game design: "gameplay before graphics"
3. design for diversity...allowing the player to use 100 different swords is not diverse if each only causes a few more damage points then the last...You must try to design in more original terms then that.
4. design in as much game balance as possible...but remeber that applying genaric attributes to a variety of objects (example: slow but strong / fast but weak) can break rule number 3 above...a no-no.
5. remember that the game is a RPG...as a game designer you should be thinking not only in terms of the actions the player may take...but also the actions of EVERYTHING else...if you can''t put yourself (while designing) into the role of every game entity then why are you designing a RPG?

Good forum users,

Thanks for the feedback. I''ll try to post shorter, clearer ideas from now on. I''ll also look into past discussions. However, I think this topic is hardly dead, and I will probably discuss it more. I hope you all will continue to show the interest and civility which marked these replies. Again, thanks much.

As for the issues posed in this thread, I''ll deal with them, one at a time, in later posts. I have many, many ideas, and I hope at least some will be useful

If you''re interested, I''ve been hosting a conversation in the game design forum on www.gamedeveloper.net on putting Roleplaying into MMORPGs.

We''ve also been discussing other aspects of MMORPGs.

I''ve been in a lot of discussions on this topic and I have a lot to say, but not many to say it to.

--
Relee the Squirrel

Yea i read that big post( I think it was your post ) and have come to the conclusion to include the bounty system( which I have seen 2x before ) and something else. My mmorpg consists of experience gaining from only pks and training. Hence if you kill another player cheaply your experience gain is small, therefore in order for you to keep up with others you have to devote your time mainly towards "fairer" fights. A little hard to explain on the boards, but anyhow. I have played with the point system, got booted from several places just because I wasn''t on the peoples team who were playing, or just because I killed a couple of them. Balancing is very important. I''d follow your posts if you wanted help and emailed me. I have trouble "watching" posts on here, doesn''t seem to tag them for me. Much easier to move around in one post too since I don''t check them often. Any dbz fans out there interested in helping me with small portions of a dbz mmorpg?

"Practice means good, Perfect Practice means Perfect"