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simple

Not fair!!!

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It''s not fair that i have to pay lot''s of money to get together all the tools needed to program games , eg Visual C++ 6.0 , 3D Max4 Photoshop etc.. But other people just get a cracked version and program games cheaply ... even freely . You guys have to say something about this... Thanks....

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You don''t have to pay anything. There was just an article on this site about free tools. there are free compilers (borland C++), free paint programs (GIMP), and free 3D programs (Gmax). And aside from those, you can (if you are a student), buy the educational editions of the products you mentioned for much less than the commercial price.

You can also just steal the programs yourself, although I think its ironic that people who want to make software and have other people pay for it are themselves unwilling to pay for it.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I actually PREFER the free things more than the pay-fo-me ones, and it isn''t because I am cheap. I use VIDE for example, because it doesn''t have all the crap that bogs me down when I use MSVC++ or JBuilder (luckily for me, the company I work for bought those, so I didn''t actually lose anything when I switched to the free ones).

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I NEVER said I stole it. Why would you assume I am stealing anything?!
I was referring to an IDE for C++ and Java that is a free download with no strings attached.
My paycheck depends on me writing programs for the company, thank you!
Stoffel, are you saying there is something wrong with preferring NotePad and the Borland command-line compiler to an overblown commercial IDE that gets in the way of actual programming?

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hey about this Gmax , is it true that we can build game worlds
and game levels with it and sell it with our games...

Thanks,,..

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I agree completely that the price of software is nuts. But unfortunately I don''t see any change in the future.

Speciality items like 3D studio will always be really expensive. Part of this could be because of piracy raising prices, but I think the biggest reason is that a company has to make $X to make a profit. By the time they take out their development and maintenance costs, they still need to add in a profit. Speciality software like this won''t sell anywhere near as many copies as Unreal Tournament, so the per copy price has to be much higher.

Although personally I think they would make up the difference if they sold 3D studio for $1000. For the serious hobby developer I think many would save up. But $4500, I don''t think so.

There are cheaper solutions, but they don''t come anywhere near the quality of some of more expensive programs (Still talking about 3D studio here... not MS).

I tried 3D studio once and loved it. Since then I have messed with demos and shareware and have not found anything I liked. The only shareware program I could tolerate was Moray; which is a front end for PovRay.

Until I can afford it, I''ll stick with 2D hand drawn images. But as soon as the cash comes in 3D studio will be on my shelf.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
try blender at blender.nl probally one of the best freeware 3d modellers (a bit complex and rough but good). As for ppl pirating, dont get mad thinking you are the only one to have to pay! i paid for VC++ 6 pro. If you want use free tools. like djgpp and such. While free alternatives are not always as feature laden/stable as the commercial products. They do work quite well. one person even pointed out an article on gamedev that described free tools you can use.

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AP who took offense to my post: I was actually replying to the original poster, not to you. I probably should have said "when one steals" instead of "when you steal", but that always sounds so stuck-up. Sorry for the mixup.

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there is free/cheap software for all game programming needs,

stealing software doesnt mean you can publish the software you make

with stolen tools (you might, but anyone can just point their

finger at you and get you audited), you can come up with the argument

that free tools are not as good (which is false example: Gimp vs

Photoshop), but that my friend is exactlly what the comercial

companies want you to believe, thats why they license Universities

, Institutes and even students for almost free, once you learn an

IDE/APP/TOOL, all the others become "not so good", and thats where

the "The only compiler existent is VC++, I have to buy it"

mentality.

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Hi all. I have messed around with most of the tools mentioned in this debate and honestly I prefer MSVC++ 6.0 to any other complier for win32 platform(GCC is a close second but it is a dos compiler).I have spent just $90 for my copy and I dont mind it because I take my programming projects as more than a hobby and I am not afraid to invest in tools.As anyone can tell you nothing in life doesnt have a price(this includes quality and or performance).If you are extremely cheap just buy a book that comes with introductory copy of the tool ex: "Tricks of Windows Programming Gurus" which comes with a intorductory version of MSVC++ 6.0 and you can get it for around 30 something dollars.If none of this convinces you then I recommend MSVC++ 6.0 because it is the native compiler for Windows architect and it supports COM objects which to me are the future of all programming.Anyway Im not trying to change your mind just your view good luck no matter what you choose.

Edited by - Royale00 on November 16, 2001 10:28:35 PM

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No, it''s not very fair at all, really. But there''s little you can do about it. Take solace in the fact that there is more high-quality free or shareware software than ever before. Use Google with phrases such as "free compiler" or "free textures" or "free 3D modeller" or whatever. Look on download sites and set the filter to Freeware only. Also try places like E-Bay, or anywhere else you can get second-hand stuff. You can get some real bargains that way. Also perhaps try looking for people who live near you and see if they have software they would be willing to part with. A lot of people will give away their older versions once they buy the newer stuff. Also try developing using stuff at school/college/work/whatever. They can often afford better software than you can get at home.

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So I was reading one post on a different forum which says , " If Visual sudio 6.0 standard version can be used to develop games i can sell?"
You guys think it can..?

Thanks.

Edited by - simple on November 16, 2001 11:33:02 PM

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I suggest MinGW. Command-line, but excellent. Free, and it does Win32 as well!

http://www.mingw.org


Live jolly,

llyod

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quote:

So I was reading one post on a different forum which says , " If Visual sudio 6.0 standard version can be used to develop games i can sell?"
You guys think it can..?



yes, you can sell games you develop with VC++ Standard, however I believe there is some sort of restriction on the "learning" version (the one that comes with Tricks of the windows game programming gurus) and might be restrictions on those student licences, not sure.

quote:

(GCC is a close second but it is a dos compiler)


it is not a dos compiler as already stated and (with James Earl Jones voice of Darth Vader):

You should never under estimate the power of the command line

GCC does rule

Edited by - kwizatz on November 18, 2001 2:14:57 AM

Edited by - kwizatz on November 18, 2001 2:15:39 AM

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i think that you are missing the whole point here!

IDE''s like MVC++ are so expensive because they let you make profit from them in the easiest and most effective way.

my point is that TOOLS for creating PRODUCTS are always expensive because you can create other programs with them.

( try to create NOWEDAYS a selling product useing freewre tools ).

"Don''''t think you are, know you are!''''

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by runtime
i think that you are missing the whole point here!
IDE''s like MVC++ are so expensive because they let you make profit from them in the easiest and most effective way.
my point is that TOOLS for creating PRODUCTS are always expensive because you can create other programs with them.
( try to create NOWEDAYS a selling product useing freewre tools ).

If you know how to code, why do you need buttons and menus and all that crap? You can create other programs by typing "make" from the command line, and in many cases it is free.
If you need M$ holding your hand to make a "selling product", that is fine by me. But please don''t insist that everyone must do as you do.

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who said that buttons and manues are a must?
i myself use a free C++ compiler, and sure one can create a good program using this tools but tools that cost a lot and especially MVC++ are made not for hobbie programmers but rather for commercial use.

and next time please don''t make any assumptions on people who post general ideas...

"Don''''t think you are, know you are!''''

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Guest Anonymous Poster
To answer the original message:

If you are serious about programming commercial products then you must go out and by all those professional tools because if you use pirated stuff and if you want recognition from other companies/publishers ... whatever (i am not familiar with all the terms) they won''t forgive a screw up like that. If you don''t have money to buy this stuff, but you are sure to make the product you will sell then quit wineing and get a bank loan for $5000 or so to get you that copy of 3DS Max and VC6++(it will obviously pay off). If you are 13 or so and obviously can''t get a loan I don''t think you can make a commercial level product so I suggest you get yourself some free tools as other members just discussed.
Now, if this stuff is just a hobby (like it is for me) and like me you still wanna play around with all those cool tools I suggest you spend couple of days searching all those "warez" sitez and d/l all those tools( i never ever paid for software that I use and i have lots: Visual Studio 6 Enterprise edition(VC/VB/VI/VJ/), 3DS Max, win2000 pro/serv/adv. serv, winXP and all the other stuff ... dont be surprised i found every single one of them on the net ... took days to d/l with my 56k but it really doesnt matter), also many companies provide trial d/l for their cool tools with those rediculous 30-day trials, in this case ASTALAVISTA.COM is your friend.

BUT YOU DO THIS ONLY IF THIS STUFF IS YOUR HOBBY OR YOU WANT TO PLAY AROUND WITH THIS STUFF BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE USEFULL TO U GETTING A JOB WHERE THOSE TOOLS ARE USED!!!



For the avid anti piracy supporters: I do not promote piracy, I just don''t think that I should spend $US5000 on all the cool stuff I just PLAY WITH FOR FUN AS A HOBBY and I love Microsoft tools and I WILL use illegal copies of it for my hobby. And if I wanna make commercial products with it I''d rather go and get a job at a place where they use it.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
So if I stole your car just to drive around really fast for kicks (one of my hobbies), and didn''t actually sell it to a chop shop, you''d be alright with that?
Jackass.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by runtime
i myself use a free C++ compiler, and sure one can create a good program using this tools but tools that cost a lot and especially MVC++ are made not for hobbie programmers but rather for commercial use.

And yet:
quote:
Original post by runtime
my point is that TOOLS for creating PRODUCTS are always expensive because you can create other programs with them.
( try to create NOWEDAYS a selling product useing freewre tools ).

So which is it? Is the expensive compiler and IDE a must , or can you program a commerical application with a free one?
quote:
and next time please don''t make any assumptions on people who post general ideas...

Sorry, I just thought you said something foolish (see above), and I felt it necesary to point out that you were wrong.

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
i never ever paid for software that I use and i have lots: Visual Studio 6 Enterprise edition(VC/VB/VI/VJ/), 3DS Max, win2000 pro/serv/adv. serv, winXP and all the other stuff ...

As someone who will eventually make a living off of writing software, this sort of thing scares me.

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