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kill

RPG's? Kiss my a**!!!

25 posts in this topic

I just got this idea, that I think is worth sharing. Let''s look at 99% of the RPG''s that come out on the market today. It''s click-doubleclick-turboclick-clickevenfaster stupidity games. U buy items, go click urself to death, get lotsa hitpoints and gold, buy more stuff, go fight again, etc. etc. etc. And to add to that, huge dungeons, and very small towns, with no stories whatsoever. Personally what I am looking for in RPG is something that will take me away to another world with wonderful graphics, and amazing story. FF7 pretty much did that, but it lacked one thing. U practically have no choices. Whatever u do, there are small differences on the way, but the story is not dynamic, whatever u do, it still prograsses the same way. To sum it all up, dynamic story where ur choices actually make a difference, great graphics (could be avi''s for all I care, not necesserely 3d) and sound. Something that will take u away from reality. Not the crap that comes out right now. Does anyone care to comment?
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Well I agree with you.. but i think FF7 is to linear.. i like fallout 1-2 more.. thoose games have a good story and a great amount of secondary missions....
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I agree that there are a lot of clickfest crapass games, but there are some games that do nonlinear environments very well, like fallout, and daggerfall. But those kinds of games take a lot more time to produce instead of a simple linear game, and since rpgs take 1 to 2 years to produce anyway, "the man" doesn''t find taking 3 years to make an excellent free flowing game to be a very economically sound idea.
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Yeah, like Mathias said, you want a very well done RPG check out Fallout, or even Fallout 2.

Fallout 1 was the most near perfect RPG I have ever played. You could play it with a variety of character types and still finish the game. Each character finishing the game in a different way.

While I really liked Fallout 2, there wasn''t as much direction in it, you know, something to keep you focused on the game. It was like it was almost too much.

I know the technology is a little old, but if some of the best RPGS I ever played (for non-linear story line and replay value) were Bethesda''s Elder Scrolls series (Arena and DaggerFall) http://www.bethsoft.com/ .


-mordell
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I also like fallout 2 but... I found it to be alittle too non-linear like mordell says you can go to any place and go anywhere you want (as long as you can handle it...)
Like being able to get the 2nd best armor in the game 5 minunts into it which is something you can to in Fallout 2...

Kavos
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Well.. how could i forgot daggerfall... wow that game is realy big.....
i liked the fallout 2 but i managed to finish it after 3 week from i bougth it... i played almost every day...
i also like Outcast.. wich is more like a adventure game.
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did you guys ever play ultima? if you have you know what i mean when i say: there's the best rpg's you'll ever find. for example, ultima 6; the resolution is crappy, yes, and the graphics arent that fine either, the sound really sucks (pc-speaker). but hell i had fun playing that game! and even better, its two sequals ultima 7 part 1 & part 2, you can even bake bread! its quite non-linear too. and the story is amazing all over the ultima serie...kinda an obsessment for some of us every time you play it you _will_ definatley find something new. you wont have to click yourself to death either, instead, you will want to read alot (keeping notes is really needed here)! check it out!

Edited by - Staffan on 1/21/00 4:20:30 PM
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Well forgot ultima 7 too... =)
i spend hours in that game just talking to different people and making new weapons and made bread and other stuff... lots of superb interactivity in that game....
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I think it''s important for some RPGs to be quite linear...Take FFVII for example, in order to keep the story as amazing as it was, it needed to make most choices for you...Granted, this was like a book...but who doesn''t enjoy an epic book?

***BINS***
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and then there''s zelda. well, its extremely debatable as to whether or not the zelda games are RPGs. more adventure games than rpgs, i guess. those games were pretty linear, except for all the little side-quests you could do to get all the best stuff or all the hearts. good god those games are fun! there''s like no possible way you can lose in those games, but they were still some of my favorite console games. FF7 and 8 are cool, but i wish they had the interactivity and RPGishness that FF3 did. 3 is still my favorite FF game. Anybody remember how you could have sex with the barmaid in Ultima 7, part 2? now THAT''s interaction!


_________________Gecko___
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Yeah, but it would nice if there could be an Epic RPG with a storyline which was dependant upon the actions the character has taken. For example, if the party constantly goes out hunting the local monster pests, when the Army of Darkness comes through the species will be less available. Or if the party stops a minor rebellion against the local feudal lord but doesn''t capture/incapacitate the ringleader, the NPC may later start a full-scale peasant revolt against the High King. That doesn''t make games like FF7 or Baldur''s Gate any less enjoyable, but it would be nice to have the player''s actions influence the world like you would see in tabletop.

Wake up, do some work, go to sleep.
Fit eating and dating somewhere inbetween.
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I must claim Baulder''s gate is a most wonderful game. It had all the elements of a good RPG!!

Afastrunner
AKA Camelboy
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Well if you want a really bad example of no choices take a look at Revenant. Not a single choice when talking to someone in the game matters one bit (well except when buying something,obviously). If you chose the wrong answer it would just through you back into the main choice loop until you answered correctly.
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Well if you want a really bad example of no choices take a look at Revenant. Not a single choice when talking to someone in the game matters one bit (well except when buying something,obviously). If you chose the wrong answer it would just through you back into the main choice loop until you answered correctly.
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A good one was Exile II (though you may never have heard of it). It was a cool RPG that ran on the native Windows engine (it used GDI. No DirectX!). Although it was low on the technolgoy part, it was really cool because of the gameplay. You could customize your own characters, and the story was pretty good. Beats a lot of those worthless RPGs they come out with these days.
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We are forgetting one other Classic RPG. Dragon Warrior. It came out for the NES system, yup the 8bit one. I spent hours playing that thing. Technological marvel no, though at the time it was a good feat, but it kept me glued to the set almost as much as EverCrack seems to be doing to me.

Kressilac

ps Is it possible for one online RPG to directly assume mind control over the project leader of a competing online RPG in order to stall the production of it and corner the market? I think Sony has a conspiracy going on here. *chuckle*
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Check it out... Everyone is focused on Graphics Graphics and More Graphics. I agree with Andre Lamothe when he says the next big things should be AI.

Companies should be putting a lot of research into this, imagine a game with no choices, every NPC has the ability to think (in a confined sense of course) and to structure speach. Not to mention that, the player is able to type in words and an interpreter will form an appropriate action. Not to mention the fact that they should be researching dynamic gaming, the first person to do this will be a game revolutionary. What I mean by ''dynamic gaming'' is the fact that there is no storyline at all (you may think I am crazy), but you put a player, NPCs, and Monsters and a whole bunch of stuff (weapons, items, spells) into the world. You then have a few critical locations on the map. But basically monsters evolve and fight just as the player does, and based on that theory, a dominant leader will emerge and he should be able to perform dimplomacy and raise an army. What makes this so exciting, is that they can pillage towns and reak havoc which gives the player his mission. Another cool thing is, perhaps several tribes will emerge and will have war with each other. This makes for very exciting gaming, you never know what will happen and it presents a REAL challenge for the Player because none of it is planned out. Obviously there should be a way to win the game, but there are many ways to do this (cleanse the world of monsters, find a special crystal, etc.) If AI can be brought to that level, gaming will redefined forever, games will become incredibly interesting because it is no longer a game, it is an artificial reality, it is no longer confined. Perhaps a monster could hear rumours of that special crystal and begin searching for it just like you are, and if he gets it, it will make him incredibly hard to beat. But with AI at that level, everything the player has access to, the AI has access to.

Just imagine a game like that!
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The main problem with this is the difficulty in balancing the world so that there is an eventual major adventure for the player to take on, it''s not too easy or too hard to complete but it''s complex enough to be interesting.
Making sure a scripted campaign is balanced enough is a long, drawn out enough process as it is.
Don''t get me wrong, the AI ideas you mentioned are my own ideals, the game I''m currently designing has many of these as preliminary concepts and I''m envisaging this as design I''ll try to take to a games company a few years down the line when I have more experience (I''m a professional AI games coder, I now what''s impossible and some of this stuff is downright close).
In a way, I hope somebody will beat me to it, because, after all, the next best thing to writing a game like this is to play it.

MikeD
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If you''re just bored with the up-level-gold-kill-kill-kill-no-story RPGs with rotten graphics, I suggest you go play Daggerfall. Right its got VGA 320x200 graphics, but where''s the problem ? The storyline is fantastic, its a really long game, and you nearly feel you were there !
IMHO people just get bluffed by the graphics and forget what is really important IN A RPG :-) : the story, the realism, the plots, the well-designed dungeons. For those who don''t know Daggerfall, I will say that in this game, you DO have cool items, but its really the player-character''s characterisitics that make the dude cool and powerfull, and not the items, plus the world is huge, and just makes it more real, despite the fact that it doesn''t support T&L, mip-mapping, trilinear filtering, alpha blendig, antialiasing, etc...
I hope you got the picture
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Well, I have to say something about this:

I have been playing Live Action Roleplaying Games and "real" book roleplaying games, and I think that computer roleplaying games are pretty good already ! Ofcourse you can "always" complain about linear gaming and so on, but it''s stupid:

In real rpg''s, you get character, that gets background and ''mission''. You actually never play rpg with world where ''you just are'', but you always have some dramatic background etc. which causes you to do something (kill big bad guy or so).

Same rule occurs in Live Action RPG''s, you will get character, who is maybe "always drunken thief, who just heard that land lord has REALLY nice diamond in he''s room, and you "would like" to get it ". And then the game begins.

Baldurs Gate, and Fallout''s are REALLY CLOSE to real roleplaying by rule system, and interactive worlds. Ultima goes even deeper into rpg, but lacks with "do whatever you wanna do" system. See, that''s the good thing with CRPG''s, player actually cannot do something "really stupid" that doesn''t have anything to do with "mission", and well... this prevents frustrated situtations like "what the heck should I do now"... Well, this is just my opinion, but I have to say that it''s hard to be gamemaster and tell another players:
"I know that you have 300000 gold and you would like to get castle and get 10 kids, but it doesn''t have anything to do with what you SHOULD BE DOING ! You remember that you dad told that your mom was killed by..."
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Tetris is too an rpg! You play a big russian guy who fits the peices into the puzzle; he''s just off the screen. In 3d tetris, he''s a 4th dimensional russian guy.

On a slightly more serious note, An interesting RPG potential game on the way into the market is Neverwinter Nights. Sounds like an interesting meld between traditional CRPGs and pen-and-paper RPGs. You can completely modify the game to present a new storyline, world, etc. to players over a network.

Sounds pretty nifty. especially if you like designing game worlds, and enjoy paper-pen-and-caffeine rpgs



*oof*
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Nah, the only way Tetris can be an RPG is if you play as the blocks.

But that probably wouldn''t be very much fun.

Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios - home of Quaternion, 2000 GDC Indie Games Fest Finalist!
www.spin-studios.com
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The best RPG''s I have played were all made by SSI in the mid to late 1990''s. Ravenloft - Strahds Possesion, Stone Prophet, and the two DarkSun games. I did not finish all those games, but I really never lost interest in them. All four had a evolving story line that towards the ends you REALLY wanted to solve. One of the best features about these games is you could port your existing characters from saved games back and forth between the games (Ravenloft and Darksun).
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