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Norman Barrows

Dual wielding for single handed missile weapons?

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Dual wielding for single handed missile weapons?

 

The game: Caveman v3.0 - a FPSRPG / person sim hybrid - stone age setting.

 

I recently added dual wielding for single handed weapons.

 

Just today it occurred to me that the code doesn't check to see if a weapon is a missile weapon.

 

So at the moment it allows dual wielding of one handed throwing weapons such as throwing rocks, throwing knives, throwing hatchets, javelins, and even atlatls, bolas, slings, and nets.

 

Should you be able to do this? perhaps with some small random error thrown in to the initial trajectory? or reduced initial velocity? or both? or just for the second one thrown, and only if they are throwing both at once? or only for the smaller weapons? no dual wielding big stuff? dual wielding things like slings, nets, bolas, and atlatls with any hope of accuracy seems a bit far fetched. knives and hatchets, sure, i could see that.  maybe even twin javelins. but i'm not so sure about bigger stuff.  but then again, I don't know - slings might be doable.

Edited by Norman Barrows

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I'd probably disallow things that would be exceedingly difficult to perform in real life. I can't really imagine dual-wielding atlatls effectively. Readying an atlatl spear one-handed would be tricky and probably defeat the advantage of being able to throw one spear from each arm in rapid succession.

For things like knives, it would be more managable, but the thrower needs practice throwing with both arms. I'm right-arm focused myself and I doubt I'd have any proficiency throwing with my left arm unless I practiced a lot. Edited by Nypyren

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I wouldn't allow that. Not only is it something that may quite possibly lead to "abnormal", unbalanced gameplay, but it is also highly unrealistic.

Atlatl is definitively a two-handed weapon. No way you can use it with one hand, let alone two of them at the same time. Same for slings.

Throwing axes, I've actually tried during a boring week alone in the woods back around ca. 2000. While it seems easy, really... forget it. Well, unless you're a thousand times better than I am or unless you have 5 years to practice every day, maybe.

On my dominant (right) hand, it took about half a dozen attempts to mostly figure it out, and another dozen attempts to be pretty sure about hitting 90-95% of the time, with care. After that, new axe hilt needed.
With the left hand, it took me half a day and a dozen axe hilts (bought a whole stock after breaking the first since the tool store was 30 mins by car... luckily they're cheap) to be somewhat sure about hitting... kinda, mostly.
So, of course, I bought a second axe... only wusses throw one axe at a time! I missed every single time (with bot axes!) until I gave up because it really wasn't fun.

Never tried knives with the non-dominant hand, but imagine it's similar. Javelins? Not sure how that would work. Have you ever done athlethics, and thrown a javelin? I'd say throwing another one with the other hand (simultaneously or right after) is a very unnatural movement to say the least, if not impossible.

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Have you ever done athlethics, and thrown a javelin? I'd say throwing another one with the other hand (simultaneously or right after) is a very unnatural movement to say the least, if not impossible.

 

I've had to do a bit of experimental archaeology as part of the R&D for the game, so yes, I've put in a bit of time with primitive javelins. Dual wielding is much like throwing a large ball over your head. But your range and accuracy are greatly reduced because you can't put your whole body into either throw, its mostly just shoulder and upper back muscles. You can't get that torso torque thing going on, almost like a golf swing.

 

I guess maybe it should be limited to knives and such at high skill levels, or not allowed at all.  And even then it should probably be a more limited range / lower velocity throw.

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I think it makes most sense to just skip it altgether.

Since your game is a fairly realistic (historical) simulation why include a fantasy concept like duel-vielding? It was not used historically for either melee or throwing weapons (sword plus dagger was used in some medieval and renaissance dueling (not in warfare), but then the dagger is mostly for parrying and act more as a shield. This is not the same as "game duel-vielding"). In a prehistoric setting, duel-vielding would be VERY wierd.

 

If the gameplay doesnt really NEED you to dual-vield, it only works for high-fantasy games like WOW. Oh, and hollywood movies; those guys duel-vield ALL the time.

 

Ps

Do you have shields? Maybe they appear at earliest in the bronze-age? For a one-hand weapon (even thrown one-hand weapon) people always used a shield in warfare if available. To have another weapon instead of a shield would just be stupid (in a realistic game that is, in fantasy games you can add whatever you like).

 

If no shield is available, another sword/javelin would reduce the effieciency so much its just better to skip it.

Throwing hatchets/axes are not historical as far as I know. Mostly myths. Even throwing knives were hardly used to any extent and are mostly from legends of ninjas etc. Javelins was used a lot though!

 

Rant over:)

Edited by suliman

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I think it makes most sense to just skip it altgether.

 

Yeah - that's what i ended up doing - hand weapons only - no dual wielding of single handed missile weapons.

 

Do you have shields?
 

 

Yes, both wood and hide shields.   

 

Maybe they appear at earliest in the bronze-age?

 

That would be metal clad wood shields - most likely bronze.  circa 5000 BC?  Neolithic - too new.

 

Throwing hatchets/axes are not historical as far as I know.

 

Actually not uncommon amongst native americans.  There may be further examples from the south pacific / australia / new zeland / new guinea regions as well.  The boomerang for example is a famous ancient throwing weapon.   Unfortunately, i never figured out a good "catch" mechanic, so i never added them. OTOH, you only have to catch it if you miss your target.  Right now i'm shopping for a new PC to do the graphics. Right now i'm using a 1.3Ghz laptop board with onboard graphics.  So there's still time to add things like boomerangs.

 

Even throwing knives were hardly used to any extent and are mostly from legends of ninjas etc.

 

Shiruken are an ancient weapon. Caveman features sharpened throwing rock similar to them. 

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