Unity What advantages Lumberyard/Cryengine has over UE4?

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I come from UE4 community , Its a great and powerful engine , very easy to learn and use and you could build nearly any type of game with it quite easily. Its main strong points are complete set of mature tools , a very strong architecture and large community support.

 

Last year Cryengine went free in the form of lumberyard, later it itself became free to use releasing as cryengine 5.

 

So I decided to take a peek into both, the latest I see of lumberyard is its going the same route as Unreal engine in its architecture (components,reflection,events etc etc) and improving tools and usability overall (might end up as UE4 clone with lua and forward renderer in a few years  :P  )

While I don't know much about cryengine 5 but it seems to be going more towards graphical enhancement route rather than improving usability and docs.

 

 

I wish to know about things that community thinks is different in CE5/Lumberyard that is something a UE4 user would desire but cannot get in UE4. Something positive that is exclusive to CE and has no proper alternative on UE4.

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Its still a bit new but a quick peek at it showed me that it supports both batching and instancing on the same level.

 

This is interesting because Unity is more batch focused and Unreal is more instancing focused, with Cryengine adopting both, on more or less the same level. Batching is better for unique 3D, making it a good choice for indie games and instancing is better for a modular workflow as used by most large games.

 

Creating assets to take advantage of both batching and instancing is a pain, the easiest is plants. Things like foliage is hard for the player to remember the exact details, if it changes it wont be noticed as often as other assets.

Considering this I think we will be seeing even more large open world games with lots of good looking vegetation from Cryengine.

 

But with its bulky interface and with how difficult it is to make assets of that level, I don't think it will be such a large contender in the indie market.

Edited by Scouting Ninja

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On using Lumberyard you need to read the license agreements carefully because Amazon made some restrictive parts in it for example you are not allowed to use an other than Amazon's or partnered cloud services and so on

 

So what the hell is the point of using Lumberyard.

Anyways... in my experience. Cryengine's Editor has a lot of problems. It's incredibly prone to crashing. it has some bad performance issues. And even some weird non-sensible glitches. It's also awkward to use at times, and tries too be too close to home with old Autodesk software.

Unreal is more modernized. I wouldn't say it's streamlined as everything is in one place. But you can easily find the most commonly used tools. And there's very little that's condoluded about using it.

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So what the hell is the point of using Lumberyard.


Lots of people are happy being tied to Amazon's cloud services.

 

yeah I don't think its a severe limiting factor or anything , also I wanted to discuss pros and not cons.

Like is there a special advantage for lumberyard renderer when compared to UE4 which can justify anyone using it instead of UE4. Or any other quality

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Like is there a special advantage for lumberyard renderer when compared to UE4 which can justify anyone using it instead of UE4.

Lumberyard should be better for large static scenes, allowing for some stunning screenshots. It is also build with networking in mind so maybe it would be better for MMO games. 

 

 

The license is maybe worth it, however that can be argued. At 5% royalty for unreal you would pay $50 for every $1000 you make, and its per product, that is less than the price of a single game.

 

If you consider that the average indie developer earns less than $750 per month, normally from more than one game, then most indie developers should be able to use any of the engines for free. Also Unity, Unreal, Cryengine/Lumberyard are all such complicated engines that no matter which of the licenses you pay for, it would be vastly cheaper than making your own engine of that level. 

 

For the license to be part of the justification for using Lumberyard you must be able to guarantee you will make more than $3000, for example if you did some crowdfunding.

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At 5% royalty for unreal you would pay $50 for every $1000 you make

Note that the Unreal percentage is on the retail price, not your own profits.

Digital retailers typically take about 30%, and the tax man typically takes about 30% in income tax.

So (ignoring the $3k threshold) if you sell $1000 worth at retail, Steam keeps $300, the tax man takes $210, Unreal take $50, and you get to keep $440.

 

For a more interesting example, say you want a decent gamedev salary of $3k per month. That means you need to sell about $6200 per month at retail, meaning Steam keep $1860, tax man takes $1302 and you keep $3038.

Per quarter, you make $9114... but your per quarter retail revenue is $18600, so subtract the $3k threshold, and Unreal want 5% of $15600, which is $780 (or $260 per month).

So your final per month income drops back down to $2778 - below our target salary of $3k.

If I go back and adjust my estimate to set a retail sales target of $6800, then you end up keeping $3042/mo and Unreal costs you $290/mo.

In comparison, Unity Pro is less than half that, at only $125/mo, and Lumber/Cry are free :)

 

So tl;dr, if you're planning to pay yourself a full time gamedev wage, the difference between Lumberyard and Unreal is ~$300/month :lol:

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Like is there a special advantage for lumberyard renderer when compared to UE4 which can justify anyone using it instead of UE4.

CE was intended to have only dynamic lighting, while UE used mainly baked lighting.

I don't know if CE supports baked lighting nowadays, but if not this point might be the most important.

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So tl;dr, if you're planning to pay yourself a full time gamedev wage, the difference between Lumberyard and Unreal is ~$300/month :lol:

 

I agree, however you should factor in the value in productivity gained from using the engine, plus the small army of developers already skilled in the engine that you can potentially tap into (note that lumberyard and for the most part cryengine do not have this large, established userbase to recruit from ...yet :rolleyes:).

 

That $300 may be worth it to you, if you'd have spent more than that $300 of time and/or budget per month making something comparable to UE4 and constantly enhancing and maintaing that code as the industry changes. As UE4 has millions of man-years of development behind it, chances are this is a reasonable trade-off unless you're an AAA studio with the budget to write your own engine.

 

Just my own personal experience and 0.02p.

Edited by braindigitalis

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So tl;dr, if you're planning to pay yourself a full time gamedev wage, the difference between Lumberyard and Unreal is ~$300/month

Well if you put it that way maybe the price should be considered, if you feel that a good interface and user base isn't worth $300 or more then using Lumberyard is the better deal.

 

I Downloaded Lumberyard again, a pain as it is huge and there are a few hoops you have to jump before it runs, just to see how it is again, underneath it has almost everything Unreal has, I would go so far as to say that they are infact on par with each other.

The size is annoyingly large Unreal is >15 GB and Lumberyard is > 40 GB Most of that is pre-made assets that will be great for testing; but developers never use these for there actual games just as no artist sells a model with the 3ds max pre-made materials attach.

 

Underneath it has most of the same things Unreal does, there is nothing that I feel justifies switching.

 

 

Digital retailers typically take about 30%

How is that not considered theft, 30% for retailers 30% for tax, you get less than half of the money you earned.

As a artist our retailers gets a 10% cut, even then we consider it too much.

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How is that not considered theft

 

Doesn't matter what you consider it, since you can't really change it. You can distribute for free via itch.io or similar but the value of the stores (physical and digital) is as much about exposure as it is about anything else.

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So tl;dr, if you're planning to pay yourself a full time gamedev wage, the difference between Lumberyard and Unreal is ~$300/month

Well if you put it that way maybe the price should be considered, if you feel that a good interface and user base isn't worth $300 or more then using Lumberyard is the better deal.

 

I Downloaded Lumberyard again, a pain as it is huge and there are a few hoops you have to jump before it runs, just to see how it is again, underneath it has almost everything Unreal has, I would go so far as to say that they are infact on par with each other.

The size is annoyingly large Unreal is >15 GB and Lumberyard is > 40 GB Most of that is pre-made assets that will be great for testing; but developers never use these for there actual games just as no artist sells a model with the 3ds max pre-made materials attach.

 

Underneath it has most of the same things Unreal does, there is nothing that I feel justifies switching.

 

 

 

 

Digital retailers typically take about 30%

How is that not considered theft, 30% for retailers 30% for tax, you get less than half of the money you earned.

As a artist our retailers gets a 10% cut, even then we consider it too much.

 

 

 

What I see is that lumberyard and UE4 are nearly same under the hood , but the Edge Ue4 has is it takes 100x less effort than Lumberyard or CE to get the same thing done. For example the animation system in UE4 . Also CE and lumberyard are less performant than Ue4.

 

Also Lumberyard seems to be taking a direction to improve its usability and toolset, while CE5 is still focusing majorly on Graphics performance. 

 

The one edge I see here is that rendering of hard metallic surfaces seems a bit better in CE/Lumberyard while everything inherently looks plastic or teflon in UE4. But again that depends on the assets and how they're used.

 

Does anyone thinks that CE/Lumberyard being a forward renderer has some advantage?

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Careful on saying 'free' for any engine - especially Lumberyard. If you host on AWS, you better have in-game purchases designed into the game because you will need serious cash to keep it online if it's successful. There is a free tier on AWS, but that will probably support 2 or 3 people playing online to test it. If you're true MMO with 2000+ concurrent users, you're in for a world of hurt when the massive bill comes. Now, keep in mind, a company like Supercell made $924M in profits on $2.3B (yes, B is for Billion) in revenue in 2015 on just 3 games. They can afford the infrastructure to support the game. If you are not immediately making sales, stay on a hard server ISP rental until you get going. If your app flies, you will not be able to exist without AWS cloud services - nothing can scale like they have proven they can.

Edited by devfingers

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