Jump to content
  • Advertisement
Sign in to follow this  
t9s1n2

Complex RPG similar to Path of Exile and Diablo.

This topic is 615 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

I'm stuck. I want to make a game that feels like Diablo or Path of Exile. I think i have some of it down but i still seem to be missing a lot. All my games share a similar difficulty system. You can choose what area level you want or find a map similar to Path of Exile that lets you play a level of that area level. Either of these systems feel fine to me but i prefer the map system because it's more random and challenging. You have to use up your maps carefully. I can't really seem to figure out though what kind of item and skill system i should use. I want there to be some kind of character building but i also want there to be a lot of randomness. I think both character building and items should be random. Character building should have some non-random elements though, so you always have some decent options available at start.

 

I've played PoE for nearly 2000 hours and Diablo series for about that much as well. I don't like PoE's skill system because skills in that game are very limited. At most you can have only 1 active skill combined with 5 support skills. I want my games to feel as little limited as possible. The passive tree is also very limiting. Most builds share a similar structure and only have around tens of points that are different. Ideally the passive tree should be random every time, so builds are at least 90% different every time. This game also has the problem of forcing the player into using 1 skill. You really only have 1 skill linked with other 5 skills that is powerful. Other skills are mostly just for utility. It is good to have utility though. Having skills that let you skip attack animation to do an attack instantly, weakening enemies, powering up player and breaking status effects are all good ideas. Ideally the player should have many powerful skills they can use, this can easily be done with some powerful skills having cooldowns. Dungeon Fighter Online is a good example. That game mostly only has cooldown skills. You mostly only chain together cooldown skills and there are very powerful cooldown skills as well called awakenings. Awakenings have up to 2 minute cooldowns and regular skills have few second to minute cooldowns. The game does also have basic attacks, if you have nothing to do when all your skills are on cooldown.

 

I don't really like story in games because they often make games linear. The RPG i'd like to make would be for players who want to play the same game over and over again hundreds of times. I'd prefer if Path of Exile would start off with the player already running and finding maps from start. The less things there are that deviate from core gameplay the better. Story often makes multiple playthroughs repetitive. Doing quests you've already done many times on previous characters feels like a chore. Getting quest rewards instead when you reach a certain level would feel a lot better or there could simply be some items that are rarely found, can be used once and act as quest rewards.

 

I think RPGs should also have diversity, for example MapleStory had jump quests which were basically platformer levels but you got rewarded for completing them. PoE has labyrinth which i don't really like but it's good because it offers the player something else to do. Having a story and quests could help in this area but i feel like it gets in the way more. Maybe if quests were executed better, for example what PoE does with prophecies.

 

Everything that i say should be taken as my opinion and not a fact. Any argument might help people design games better. Even discussing obvious things can help realize something important.

 

My games:

 

 

Here i tried some status effects. This game has a system in which you get skills from weapons. It feels bad because of no character building. Status effects though do seem like a step forward because you can build around them, so for example enemy freeze duration is reduced. This one had maps. This one has a time limit for levels because then the player doesn't have to fully clear levels because it feels like a waste of time and i can make more rewarding levels because players can't spend much time in them.

 

 

Here i tried different skills. This game has a system in which you have items and are able to learn the skills you use. This feels bad because there isn't a lot of randomness involved in learning skills. I tried to make it a little bit random by making the player find skills but even then it feels like eventually player can still do whatever they want. This system is mostly similar to Diablo 2's. It has the problem of forcing the player into using 1 skill as well. In this one you could choose the area level. The problem with being able to learn what you want is also that you'll hit engine limitations quite fast.

 

 

Here i tried level generation. This feels bad because RPGs feel best in open areas. There are really only small areas in this one. This one also only had character building with no item system. This also felt bad because of barely any randomness at all. The upgrades were found randomly. This one had maps.

 

 

Something MapleStory style. Feels limited because it's basically 2d. Does have the option to have jump quests though.

 

Other things that i've made that i think are cool.

Horror game. Maybe i can add horror elements to my game?

Hearthstone. Maybe i can add a card game elements to my game?

Barbarian. Tried to model Barbarian from Diablo 2.

My 2 FPS projects. I've also had thoughts about making something like Borderlands or Hexen. Maybe FPS have advantages i'm not seeing?

Racing. RPG racing game?

Edited by t9s1n2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement

It's really encouraging that you've made prototypes to test out your ideas. But it's not clear what you're asking here, or how the videos would help. You can ask people what kind of game they'd like to see but ultimately most "what should I make?" questions just come down to your personal preferences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really encouraging that you've made prototypes to test out your ideas. But it's not clear what you're asking here, or how the videos would help. You can ask people what kind of game they'd like to see but ultimately most "what should I make?" questions just come down to your personal preferences.

Well, i feel kinda stuck, so any kind of suggestions would help. Maybe people who are into this kind of thing can get inspiration from this as well. Maybe someone sees things from an angle i'm not and can inspire me to try something new with my projects. Really i'm just looking for like minded people to give their input. Most people like RPGs as well, so no one's points are really invalid. Maybe someone knows a feature that would really help my RPGs grow. Maybe there are some serious flaws with my projects that i'm not seeing. Something definetly feels off and different inputs would be nice. Maybe there are even games that i should look more into and could have something to learn from. Any books, YouTube videos, other posts, blogs or documentaries might also help.

Edited by t9s1n2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked POE but hated the complicated currency-system (barter and keep track of a myriad of little items instead of "coin" or "gold"). Played the hell out of diablo 1 & 2 but didnt like diablo3, it felt to streamlined.

 

But more importantly:
If you wanna do a action rpg like POS or Diablo I understand. Those are awesome games. HOWEVER: if you dont have a large experienced team this will just be frustrating. And you wont finish. It looks from your videos as you are learning still.

 

ARPG like you discribed are more or less dependant on good graphics, animation, sound and LOTS of content. It's not doable for a lone guy. I suggest trying to make (and finish) another type of game with less (not HUGE) scope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked POE but hated the complicated currency-system (barter and keep track of a myriad of little items instead of "coin" or "gold"). Played the hell out of diablo 1 & 2 but didnt like diablo3, it felt to streamlined.

 

But more importantly:
If you wanna do a action rpg like POS or Diablo I understand. Those are awesome games. HOWEVER: if you dont have a large experienced team this will just be frustrating. And you wont finish. It looks from your videos as you are learning still.

 

ARPG like you discribed are more or less dependant on good graphics, animation, sound and LOTS of content. It's not doable for a lone guy. I suggest trying to make (and finish) another type of game with less (not HUGE) scope.

 

It doesn't really matter to me if it's gold or currency. I understand why PoE did their currency system. It becomes irrelevant slower because it's useful throughout the game, for example a chaos orb is actually more useful at level 100 than it is at level 1.

 

Scope isn't the problem really. I understand it will be a lifelong project for me. The cool thing about making a game like this is that you can play it at any stage of production. Also the more you know the better game you can make for yourself and it will be a fully customized RPG just for yourself. I'd rather work on this game for tens of years than a game i like less for a few years because it's just that much more rewarding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It doesn't really matter to me if it's gold or currency. I understand why PoE did their currency system. It becomes irrelevant slower because it's useful throughout the game, for example a chaos orb is actually more useful at level 100 than it is at level 1.

 

You mean currency or barter system? (gold is currency). The problem currency becomes irrelevant later on in diablo is because its needed for nothing (best items are from drops not bought). Also repairs are pretty much free (in WOW repair costs are not free and money is NEEDED for many features such as training etc so money stays relevant).

What I didnt like about the barter system in POE was its very hard to get an overview of your wealth or the value of stuff. And in a game where you always handle your crowded inventory it becomes annoying, not fun.

 

 

 

I'd rather work on this game for tens of years than a game i like less for a few years because it's just that much more rewarding.

 

Well if it's true for you then fine:)

But for me I would rather complete a game (or even come close to a playable state) than start unrealistic super-projects. However it's always fun to dream!

Edited by suliman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant gold or PoE's currency. PoE's system indeed is annoying, if you are trying to count how much money you have and if you are trying to buy something for exact price it's really annoying to do so. Most things go for just chaos orbs, so smaller currency aren't really considered. PoE has some scaling issues as well, for example some really good items go for chaos orbs, so that system isn't perfect either. Most players just use a website called poe.trade nowadays. They type in the name of the item they want and get the cheapest result, for example you can type in Marohi Erqi and get a weapon just for 1 alchemy orb which is less than a chaos orb which is basically nothing in that game and get a weapon that you can easily farm high levels with. PoE has gotten really easy lately, so items that used to be expensive aren't worth much nowadays.

 

The power creep in that game is also insane. You can get one of the best weapons in the game just for 2 exalted orbs currently on average called Starforge. Items that powerful should easily be worth 100 exalted orbs at least in my opinion. The game itself is unbalanced at the moment as well. Life builds are a lot weaker than energy shield builds and enemies mostly die instantly even with average items. It's all about trying to go through maps as fast as you can instead of actually wanting to build your character for stats. 1 exalted orb is worth 65 chaos orbs at the moment. I miss the days when PoE used to actually be a challenging game.

 

Gold isn't perfect either. The problem with gold is that later on in game you find it a lot more, so things that can be bought earlier on in the game feel almost as if they are for free. In my game i prefer something similar to gold but as the player levels then things also get more expensive to counter things getting too cheap to buy. Diablo 2 solved it by having gambling and by really having nothing else of importance you can do with gold. Gambling scales prices according to your level and there's a chance to always gamble for something good. You can even gamble the best items in the game, if you get lucky for a decent price.

 

I don't really like the idea of buying potions and arrows, for example. In PoE they have arrows that don't run out and give you stats. They also have reusuable flasks with special stats. Maybe buying these things feels important early game when you don't have much money but later on in the game they are basically free and just a waste of time to get. I'd prefer if Diablo 2 didn't have arrows and you just had unlimited ammo. Maybe a passive skill that makes you use up less arrows would also help.

 

I also don't like things that clutter inventory like charms and arrows. You need to keep a lot of arrows in inventory, so you don't run out in the middle of fighting something and if you also have charms you don't really have space for arrows. For charms they should've had extra equipment slots. Maybe a 3*3 grid in which you can fit charms of different sizes, for example 1 grand charm, 1 large charm and 4 small charms. Diablo 2 expansion brought a lot of power creep with it too, for example charms, new powerful items and runes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diablo gold system would have been less meaningless if cost for these (somewhat essencial) stuff/services went up with your level:

-potions

-ammo (i agree ammo can be anoying to manage in a ARPG, so maybe better to skip it)

-repair equipment

-other town services could be needed, such as restoring hope etc. These could make gold meaningful in high levels.

 

Does it make sense that cost for blacksmith repairs goes up when you level up? Nope, but it doesnt matter. Making needed items/services expensive enough makes it more of a survival game and makes gold/currency more important (and thereby more fun to collect, and less meaningless).

 

I dont think gambling for items were a good solution to sinking gold in Diablo. It felt cheap and unfair to me as a player.

 

I agree charms were kind of annoying too. They were useful but at a cost: inventory annoyance. You shouldnt annoy the player:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does it make sense that cost for blacksmith repairs goes up when you level up? It actually could make sense. Maybe townspeople see that the hero is getting stronger and expect more money for their services. Also, more powerful items should cost more to repair, since they're made out of things that might be more difficult to fix and find spare parts for.

 

I think games kinda need a fun gold sink though, like gambling. Gambling is fun because you basically get loot without killing anything and have a chance to gamble a lot, if you have money. This also enabled gold finding builds. Do you have any ideas for a fun gold sink?

 

I don't really like gold finding and magic finding though. Equipping weaker items simply to magic find, for example feels really stupid. You don't even get to use your best items because your magic find items are more valuable because they allow you to find something extremely good. Why play normally, if you can simply magic find until you can go through next content really easily and then magic find again when you get stuck?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you say you are stuck and you would like to make a game like D or PoE, then start to analyse their core game.

 

The core game mechanism of both game is pure combat, that is all. The satisfying and fun part of the game is to mow through hords of monsters.

 

Then you have features which support the core game mechanism, gear, skills,progression system etc, all which just make you better to mow through harder hords of monsters.

 

Then you have features which support the support features, like a barter/money system to get more interesting gear etc. You get the hang.

interactive combat (core)
- gear
-- buy/sell
--- auction system
-- crafting
-- enchanching
-- inventory system
- skills
-- skill tree
--- skill map
-- character classes

So, when you are stuck, start with your core game mechanism. THIS must be perfect, combat must feel right, must feel fun. Everything else is not important as long as you dont have a perfect core game mechanism. Once you get your core game mechanism down, add your most important support features, and eventually, once you have them right too, add more smaller support features.

 

The gear, barter, skill, spell system would be absolutely dull, if D or PoE would have a boring combat system.

Edited by Ashaman73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Advertisement
×

Important Information

By using GameDev.net, you agree to our community Guidelines, Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.

We are the game development community.

Whether you are an indie, hobbyist, AAA developer, or just trying to learn, GameDev.net is the place for you to learn, share, and connect with the games industry. Learn more About Us or sign up!

Sign me up!