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deltaKshatriya

Trump and Russia (take 2)

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So another Trump advisor has been found contacting Russian agents. LINK. Just how many have to have a connection to Russia's government or their intelligence agencies before any real hearings are conducted?

 

It's a slow process for sure. It's become fairly clear that there are connections that are not benign/routine. Look at what's going on. There's a ton of smoke in the form of leaks and statements of US intelligence officials. Moreover, just look at Trump and Friend's behavior. Covering things up, firing people, recusals, etc. all seem to point to something going on. Even the spin is having a tough time keeping up at this point.

 

Thing is that most Republicans are still not onboard. They'd still much rather prefer to cover it up. What I wonder though is that if the best option is to cover up everything, what exactly is it that they are so afraid of?

 

 

But, people who voted or supported him were desperate and still are desperate. They're not going to be worried about future or clandestine threats while they're wondering how they're going to eat tomorrow.

Or if they're gonna have a job next month. Call Trump and his associates on his bullshit. But make sure you are actually solving a real problem that these people have. The problem being lack of jobs (well-paying or otherwise). It's what got him into the White House.

Those people are idiots. Trump's plan isn't going to work. He may as well try to put all those blockbuster employees back to work, or maybe restart the great American horse-shoeing industry. 

There is an opportunity here for jobs, but it's in completely the opposite direction. Instead of giving people shitty, dangerous jobs that will ruin the environment and fail in a few years anyway, he could be investing in hi-tech jobs in the renewable sector.

We need Elon Musk, but we've got Ned Ludd.

 

 

Trump's plan won't work. It hasn't worked so far. Protectionism, barring immigration, etc. have only worked to bring down countries and civilizations, not boost them up. Barring H1B won't do shit. Dragging companies back won't do shit either, especially if all they are gonna do is automate the plant to begin with. And as Trump himself has stated, in his book, unless you actually deliver on the goods, people will eventually catch on to the fact that they are being duped. 

However, the thing is that the people who are 'idiots' wouldn't be in the position of not having work if they could work in high tech fields. All they've ever known/can do are those shitty/dangerous jobs. Trump, Bannon (and his thinly veiled racist bandwagon, and maybe the Russians) are basically exploiting this as an opportunity to get into a position of power to carry out an agenda. Obviously Trump doesn't give a shit about any of these people at all. Point is that if they were 'smart' they wouldn't be in the position they are anyways. Not to say Trump voters are uniformly stupid (I think the term willfully ignorant applies), but if we are referring to factory workers, they certainly aren't capable of doing things like coding. 

There are legit solutions to this, but you've got a used car salesman (Trump) selling his brand of populism, throw in some racial resentment, and some pseudo-science, along with a base that's clearly more than willing to overlook some realities in exchange for the high given by this entire escapade, and voila! Trump is president! 

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https://www.recode.net/2017/4/3/15164358/trump-white-house-foreign-immigration-h1b-tech-hiring-crackdown

Trump's cracking down on H1B visas bigly already.

 

An exact quote from a developer friend I have in NC was (via text, no punctuation added for affect) "Fuck yes!!!! Does that mean our salaries are about to skyrocket back to 90's levels?"

 

Even mostly symbolic things like this will keep that support going along.

 

So, just for clarity's sake, is this just something you're using as an example of what Trump's supporters like, or is this a sentiment that you actually agree with?

 

Personally I don't really care either way, as this change doesn't touch any real use case.

 

As someone who is responsible for all our hiring we've had 7~ H1B workers all very intelligent and working at a low-senior level.

 

I don't see any companies hiring Entry level H1B workers... At that point they're better off just outsourcing labor which also isn't covered.

 

In general I think H1B's are America's strongest asset (Even comparable to our export market), and it lets  us take in brilliant people from other countries like an intelligence sponge.

 

Curious to see where the new Russian allegations go. From the description it could be anything from talking about public lectures to negotiating deals with a Russian spy network.

 

Seems most of the investigations have lost steam now? Are the only ones still ongoing the Seychelles meeting and the new one?

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None of the investigations have lost steam. They're all ongoing as part of a larger FBI Russia probe.

I'm fairly convinced someone is going to jail. I wonder who, how many, and how far up at this point really.

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None of the investigations have lost steam. They're all ongoing as part of a larger FBI Russia probe.

I'm fairly convinced someone is going to jail. I wonder who, how many, and how far up at this point really.

 

I honestly don't think it's possible to reach a conclusion like that. I think media coverage is pretty disconnected from anything that may or may not be going on in any investigation, and that's honestly probably the way it should be. Given what's been made public I have a fairly easy time imagining a wide range of scenarios.

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What conclusion do you mean? Do you mean the ongoing investigation part of my belife that someone is going to jail?

I'm gonna guess that you mean the second part, and imo, with all the smoke and cover ups, something is bad enough that the best course of action is to do an obvious cover up. There are a ton of signs pointing to there is an illegal connection here. I admit tho that we don't really know how many were involved and how far reaching it is. Granted we don't know what the investigation is doing, but there's been plenty of leaks, so we know some details.

Btw, how'd the cows aren't evil name come about? Always curious each time I see you post. PM me if you feel it'd derail the thread. :)

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Well the US just dropped some cruise missiles on Assad. Here's the thing. Trumpoo faces a lot of domestic pressure. It'd be really tough to not do anything. The other thing is that Trump doesn't have to do pro Russia stuff all the time: even destabilizing the US with general idiocy (which we have seen in these past few months) is enough.

The other thing is that Trump doesn't want to look like a hypocrite after attacking Obama for not doing anything a couple of years ago. It's probably why he did them.

In any case, we don't know a ton. There's still plenty of scenarios of Russia and Trump that probably haven't been considered.

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Well the US just dropped some cruise missiles on Assad. Here's the thing. Trumpoo faces a lot of domestic pressure. It'd be really tough to not do anything. The other thing is that Trump doesn't have to do pro Russia stuff all the time: even destabilizing the US with general idiocy (which we have seen in these past few months) is enough.

The other thing is that Trump doesn't want to look like a hypocrite after attacking Obama for not doing anything a couple of years ago. It's probably why he did them.

In any case, we don't know a ton. There's still plenty of scenarios of Russia and Trump that probably haven't been considered.

 

And lets not forget, until now its just a ton of cruise missiles dropped unto a single airport... more than the Obama administration has done (which, at that time, could have done a hell lot more without risking a direct confrontation with russian military forces in syria)... clearly more than any european country has done to date.

 

Still, its just some cruise missiles fired on a single airport. That will not kill off the Assad regime, nor will it drive russia out of syria, nor will it solve the problem with SOMEONE (most probably Assad and the IS, but could also be the russians or the rebels) using chemical weapons without regards for civilian casualities.

 

I would be amazed if the russians wouldn't use that as an excuse to boast more anti-western propaganda in TV, and maybe move more russian military back to syria. Yet I don't think its going to ignite a big war between ANYONE.

Somebody f***ed up and used no-no chemical weapons big times without any provisions to cover up the thing. The russian blame on Assads planes attacking a chemical weapon factory of the rebels just shows that even the russians are neither happy about the whole thing, nor see it as something you can jsut wipe under the rug.

They basically called Assads military stupid. Completly moronic to be precise. How stupid can you be to drop bombs on a facility with chemical weapons? Best case your intel sucks, and you are just dropping bombs gung-ho. Worst case you deliberately endangered civilian lives just to make sure those weapons couldn't be used against your troops. With trying to dispose of the chemical weapons with improper means (maybe Assads troops though those bombs would be enough to destroy the chemical weapons without endangering civil lives) in the middle.

That is a very serious claim given how friendly the russians have been with Assad and his gang in the past. Of course, calling them stupid is still better than admitting them actually having DROPPED the chemical weapons they SHOULDN'T posses anymore themselves. Its the lesser of two evils. Still, it shows that Assad has gone so far as to risk loosing russian support at least in parts.

 

Now, I am not sure firing cruise missiles were a wise choice. At this point, unless you destroy all the military airports, Assad can still drop more chemical weapons, and each aggression against him will strengthen the Bond between russia and Assad anew.

As cynical as it sounds, Assads latest action are actually more damaging to him than all the cruise missiles the US could fire before the russian will stop them (either using diplomatic means, or military ones, lets not hope the latter is necessary). Russia might be pretty aggressive with their foreign politics in the last few years, but Putin is far from Gung-ho, and sadly the opposite of stupid. Assad doing stupid things like overstepping red lines like that might lead to Putin at some point agreeing on a replacement (while maybe negotiating a nice retirement home for Assad in a first class russian dacha).

 

Anyway, while Obamas foreign politics maybe where sometimes to pacifistic, until now Trumps looks pretty random and not well thought out, like a lot of his internal actions till now. Lets hope he is making wise decisions in Syria, both for the life of the civilian population in the region, and for the global peace between the east and west in general.

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It's more of a threat to Assad then something meant to dismantle his military. Trump's showing he's willing to kill people who drop chemical weapons (there's a chance even the pilot who did it personally has died, and he's surely lost some friends if not).

 

I'm willing to bet if chemical weapons are used again there will be cruise missiles fired off at Assad personally.

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Nothing new under the sun. Proxy wars are an old thing, and they're still a valid strategy because they are very good for the economy, this should not surprise anyone. The Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #34 wasn't made up, like most things in Star Trek it's not so much fiction, but a distorted parody of real 20th century history and racial clichés.

In every proxy war, the larger nations support one or the other side (sometimes both), always with most honorable justifications, and keep the conflict going for years, or decades. After all, someone has to buy the weapons you manufacture, and as long as war stays in some far-away country that most people have trouble finding on the map, it's all fine. Spain, China, Korea, Vietnam, Angola, Sudan, Ethiopia, Nicaragua, Afghanistan... did I forget an important one?

So... the question of questions... will this turn Russia and USA against each other, will it escalate to a huge war? Of course not. They have an interest in keeping this conflict going, but they have no interest whatsoever in a conflict between the superpowers. They're not insane, you know. This is about business, not about total extermination in a global war. Sure, they'll do their propaganda show, but... whatever.

You need to have an enemy and an immediate threat after all, or the whole thing doesn't make sense. How do you govern a country when there are no present and immediate threats, and your citizens are not afraid of someone? How do you make them comply with the idea of your war (which is good for business)? How do you make them comply with their civil rights being violated every day? How do you convince a random young man to go to a far-away country and die in a trench with his guts hanging out of his belly, if there is no enemy that needs to be destroyed? Sure enough, hate and fear are most valuable properties, and you need to feed them regularly. So yeah... propaganda will go on, of course. But that's just... The Show.

You never asked yourself how some random arab guy who can barely write his name managed to capture an airplane and crash it... not just in the world trade center, but right into the Pentagon? Seriously? Right into the most secured building in the country, flying through the probably most paranoia controlled airspace in the world with F18s in the air at all times? Come on, you never wondered how that could have happened? Enemy, babe... you need an enemy. And you need fear.

It's not even certain who repeatedly used chemical weapons in Syria or bombed a chemical weapon factory or whatever. Assad? Maybe. Some IS guy? Maybe. But it might very well have been US military or Russian military, too. What do we know about it? Nothing. Only what we're being told. You cannot even be sure that the so-called IS isn't in reality the CIA (it's not like they hadn't done similar before, think e.g. Operation Ajax).

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