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Durakken

VRMMO design for novel

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Durakken    692

So I'm designing a VRMMO for novel and I want some feedback on some parts of it and perhaps some help with one part...

The game have 5 races you can select, 2 sexes, and 12 "jobs".

When you create the character you can select race, sex, and 2 jobs. These choices add up to given 60 points (Multiply by 10 for HP/MP/Stamina).

The race selection makes up 30 pts.

The Sex and 2 jobs add 10pts each adding up to 30pts.

Each level these stats go up another 60 pts based on the same factors.

You can invest a job level into any job as you increase in level. so that you can have, for example, 2 levels in fighter, 1 in defender, and 1 in sorcerer, or 4 in fighter.

Every job can learn every trait and use every weapon, skill, whatever. This makes jobs sorta pointless so I decided that each job gets a unique trait that is gotten by the first 2 jobs you select. The problem with this is that then you might select a job for 1 level and then select something else that you think have better stats. Which is fine, but this makes it so a job might start being used just for that first level trait...So I decided that after significant intervals the first 2 jobs you get to that interval gets you an additional trait...

Those interals are levels, 1, 100, 1000, 2000, and 10000. This means you end up with 10 of 60 traits that job leveling matters in.

The level intervals are as they are because those are stages of development in the game world where a person goes from a normal person to entering into mythical stature and such. Also the levels are high because of the setting. Normally I wouldn't consider such a high level, but the nature of the game world makes it so that it probably needs to be...

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now the main thing I'm trying to work out is those traits, if the current ones I have seem balanced or not enough and also I'm having trouble coming up with 60, because they have to go with the job, but can't be a specific skill. So like "cure" or "fireball" are out, but modifiers that make those stronger or act in some special way, but broadly effects things and not just those skills... Here is the list I've got so far: 

 

*trait = skill, feat, ability, technique, power, etc. All those terms fit what I mean by trait.

Fighter ===== (generic catch-all like 'Warrior' is for most games)
lvl 00001 - Attacker : Every damage dealing trait learned increases the relevant stat according to trait's level.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Defender ==== (generic tanking class)
lvl 00001 - Defender : Every Defensive trait learned increases the relevant stat.
lvl 00100 - Immovable : Nullifies forced movements of all types and most stuns don't work.
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Ranger ====== (A damage dealer that uses ranged weapons like bows and guns, not so much throwing stuff)
lvl 00001 - Sniper : Has a high chance to instant kill a target with a head shot.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Shadow ====== (The idea behind this job is like the Ninja/Warrior class from FFXI. Uses tools to be able to tank through dodging and does moderate damage)
lvl 00001 - Shadow : Can learn a trait from mirroring it several times within a given time frame.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Sorcerer ==== (Black Mage)
lvl 00001 - Elemental Affinities are increased by spell traits twice as much as normal.
lvl 00100 - Corruption - Power can be increased via sacrifices that mutate physical form and stats.
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Mender ====== (White Mage, but is healing in general, not completely reliant on magic)
lvl 00001 - Blessed - Allows any action to have healing, buffing, and Protecting attributes.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Enchanter === (Red Mage, but focuses more on actual buffing or weapons/armor than on mana regen)
lvl 00001 - Imbue - Permanent Enchantments and Gem making are twice as powerful
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Summoner ==== (Somewhat like the common summoner, but think more in line with using spirits and channeling for different effects)
lvl 00001 - Soul Link - Creates a link with a summon that allows the user to trade any single attribute with the linked Summon
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Tamer ======= (Basically uses creatures/pets to fight)
lvl 00001 - Loyalty - Control over pets extend to infinity
lvl 00100 - Pet - Allows any NPC to be turned into a Pet
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Rogue ======= (More like an opportunists and rule breaker, than 'a thief'. A crafty business man type or a pirate or a thief.)
lvl 00001 - Opportunity - Actions taken when the target is unaware have double the effectiveness.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Gadegeteer == (Creates things and uses things to do damage, heal, etc. rather than relying on martial or magical abilities)
lvl 00001 - Tool Master - Using Gadgets, Items, and Materials will produce higher quality or quantity results.
lvl 00100 - Master Tradesman - Crafting Gadgets, Items, and Materials will produce higher quality or quantity results.
lvl 01000 - 
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
Entertainer = (Bards, Singers, Dancers, etc. These characters buff/debuff through non-magical means)
lvl 00001 - Inspiration - Produces a 25% natural buff to allies, including self to all actions and stats.
lvl 00100 - 
lvl 01000 - Divine Inspiration - Once a week user's actions produce results that exceed the limits of those actions normally can attain
lvl 02000 - 
lvl 10000 - 
 
 
.... Feedback is much appreciated...Thanks ^.^

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Scouting Ninja    3968

VRMMO

Considering the limits of VR and MMO is this even possible at the moment?

I feel it's to soon, even a normal MMO has a lot of problems, with lag as the main and constant one. Then there is the VR, how do players move?

I don't think there is even a one player game that works with every VR set available at the moment.

*trait = skill, feat, ability, technique, power, etc. All those terms fit what I mean by trait.

lvl 00001 - Shadow : Can learn a trait from mirroring it several times within a given time frame.

So the shadow can also use the Fighters general stat boost?

Why would anyone use any other character, if they could have 60 traits in one?

now the main thing I'm trying to work out is those traits, if the current ones I have seem balanced or not enough and also I'm having trouble coming up with 60

60 Is a lot, even if you could implement one a day it's still going to take around two months just to implement them. Making a game with these many traits is going to be hell to balance and take years to even get a demo going.

I think you should stick to the classics: Warrior, Ranger and Wizard. Take the traits you have and divide among these and add in new characters only if needed for a update.

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Durakken    692

You seemed to misunderstood a bit...

VRMMO is an MMO that uses true VR, not the garbage that is being called VR presently which is just an HMD. True VR does not exist currently and VRMMO is a term the originates from light webnovels which is what I'm planning on writing, which is what I'm asking for, not to actually make an MMO.

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The 60 "traits" are unique to their jobs. That's the point of what I explained. These are unique traits that cannot be gotten in any other way. This is part of the problem with not having adequate words and me using notes to relay information here. The ability to Mirror and Clone a trait is referring to any trait that isn't one of these 60 and can be "mirrored" so passive traits cannot be cloned. Without this ability those would rely on special events, skill books, etc. to obtain.

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Scouting Ninja    3968
True VR does not exist currently and VRMMO is a term the originates from light webnovels which is what I'm planning on writing,

These manga, anime and webnovels don't follow game design rules, with a reason, in fact Baka and Test was the only anime that had well designed games; that is because the games are events separate from the story like battles are.

You should have made this clear and posted in the lounge as it has nothing to do with game design. What makes a game fun to play doesn't make a good story.

 

My advice is not to bother with 60 real game like traits anyway, most of them would be useless in a story. Instead build your traits around the tropes you plan on using. http://tvtropes.org/

Remember that the magic system in stories are valued on how they drive the story and add dimension to characters.

 

For the shadow's trait make it "Deus ex Machina", it can teleport him out of any situation, if it's a low level. You could also make it the last ability he learns and then it resets the world.  I mean it isn't as powerful as "Divine Inspiration" but it is more flexible.

 

For the Entertainer give him the "Save the Girl" trait, every time this type saves a female character they level up. That way the hero can use his Shadow's shadow to mimic it when he saves his love interest from the villain, gain unexpected power and win.

Edited by Scouting Ninja

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Durakken    692

Baka and Test is not a VRMMO. It's an AR game so faras I saw. There are plenty of these that are decently well designed for what they are.

I stated in the first line of the first post and made it tthe title of the topic. That's pretty clear... As far s putting it in the Lounge I might have, but that is not  a link in the main drop down menu and I usually forget the main board is there to and I haven't ever seen the Lounge... also this is about game design, not writing the novel. So it is still in the right place because despite the "what makes a game fun doesn't make a good story" thinking, which I don't find to be true, I intend to try make a realistic design as possible for the situation...

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Also... the character does not get the unique trait of the job unless they raise the job to that point and are 1 of the 2 to reach that point... In other words. When you create your character you put levels in Fighter and Defender and get Attacker and Defender traits... then when you level up, if you level up say, Mender, you're not going to get Blessed. You only get 2 of each set of 12, which totals 10 of 60. at lvl 10,000.

 

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it isn't as powerful as "Divine Inspiration"

 

You think this is powerful?

 

 

 

"Save the Girl" trait, every time this type saves a female character they level up

maybe not level but something else. I like this idea ^.^ just not for the reason you probably like it :P

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Edited by Durakken

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Scouting Ninja    3968
Divine Inspiration - Once a week user's actions produce results that exceed the limits of those actions normally

It's a limit break, it can in theory make all stats 999999; it's as good as it gets.

 

It's an AR game so faras I saw. There are plenty of these that are decently well designed for what they are.

True, still the only one I even considered for using as a game mechanic. 

 

also this is about game design, not writing the novel. So it is still in the right place because despite the "what makes a game fun doesn't make a good story" thinking, which I don't find to be true, I intend to try make a realistic design as possible for the situation...

Then consider all your abilities:  

Attacker: has a limit break on strength. 

Defender: has a limit break on defence.

Sniper: has a above 50% chance of instant kill, no limits.

Shadow: has all abilities. Is the perfect counter for each type.

Sorcerer: Has a magic limit breaker with a condition. Can double there magic power instantly.

Mender: Gives any action a healing effect, you should know that healers are the hardest to balance in a fair game.

Enchanter: Gives the party an edge over other parties, doesn't need to even be in a team.

Summoner: Extends the traits over 60, a game changer if there ever was one.

Tamer: Same as summoner and can also change the stats and traits of others.

Rogue: The most under powered character in the game, can double there traits; except they have only double.

Gadegeteer: same as enchanter.

Entertainer: Master of all, can not only limit break all stats of other players, will also jump it up 25%.

 

My team: Entertainer, Warrior, Mender and shadow.

Shadow counters all, I keep him alive with Mender and if the other player only has shadows I use my shadow on the warrior.

The team of only shadows can only mimic my own so it's a battle of levels. Any other battle I just use the shadow and healer to keep healing while the warrior defends and the Entertainer boosts our stats higher than the opponent.

As a game most of these traits are broken, they cause unbalance.

 

These types of stories don't make sense as real games, they can't, games have breakers; people who play the game only to find exploits.

Take Accel World it's a good story except the game has a huge exploit. 

People fight for accel points because the only way to get points is by defeating other players, each player starts with a 100 points, they forget everything once they lose all points.

Simple, all you do is invite new players, defeat them get there accel points and repeat. That is a easy 100 points for every noob, they forget it all and can't return to fight you later. The rules for the story creates the perfect exploit, no developer would ever do something this simple.

 

Games don't make good stories, you don't want to listen to a player describing his every League of legends game.

In games it is developer and player, working from opposite ends to make the game, feuding creator and maker. In a story the writer tells the story, a lonely god.

What makes games fun is the player, in a story you are a observer; only to experience never to use. So the rules work as the story teller says, in a game the player can prove you wrong.

Edited by Scouting Ninja

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Durakken    692

Attacker: has a limit break on strength.

Defender: has a limit break on defence.

 

Nope. They don't. I don't know where you're getting that.

Those traits are for example, if you have a skill for Sword Mastery lvl 1. It adds +2 to Stength. It's not a "limit break"

 

Sniper: has a above 50% chance of instant kill, no limits.

It takes skill to execute. If you can't physically pull it off it is worthless, more or less, for you. Also I didn't give a %, just said a high chance. What that means I can determine later.

 


Shadow: has all abilities. Is the perfect counter for each type.

 

No...It just makes it easier to learn skills that your oponent has learned. It's not even at the same skill level.

 


Sorcerer: Has a magic limit breaker with a condition. Can double there magic power instantly.

Corruption is a gamble. The higher the risk, the higher the reward. You can use it and it may cause your stats to instantly drop to 1 and make the power boost completely worthless.

 

 

Enchanter: Gives the party an edge over other parties, doesn't need to even be in a team.

It gives "permanent" enchants double the effect. It's not doubling all enchants and not the ones you are using in battle.

 


Summoner: Extends the traits over 60, a game changer if there ever was one.

Tamer: Same as summoner and can also change the stats and traits of others.

Just, no. You are still not understanding. There are not 60 traits in the game. There are 60 traits accessed solely in this 1 ways to make jobs mean something. And what the heck makes you think they can change the stats of others? Tamers can't do that that and Summoner is using just switch Strength for Strength with the summon and it is a temporary thing. If used wisely it is useful but if not the summoner can't make use of it at all.

 

 

Rogue: The most under powered character in the game, can double there traits; except they have only double.

Unless you think about what "unaware" means and realize that those aren't "limit breaks" like you seem to think

 

 

Gadegeteer: same as enchanter.

Yes, but also consider that item effects could be weaker than magic effects and therefor this balances out.

 

 

 

Entertainer: Master of all, can not only limit break all stats of other players, will also jump it up 25%.

25% boost may be too strong, but the limit break in this case is fine as it is a once a week thing. Using it like you seem to be thinking is a waste. If I was in a guild with an entertainer and they used it to make a single attack limit break I'd be upset with them. You can't abuse this trait without a fully prepping and planning very far ahead simply by dint of the speed of leveling.

Edited by Durakken

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Scouting Ninja    3968

if you have a skill for Sword Mastery lvl 1. It adds +2 to Stength. It's not a "limit break"

It's weaker now that you have defined it, however it is still a limit break.

Consider if the max strength is 99, a player reaches that level (say level 50) then uses this. It adds +2 for every level, that is strength of 99+ (2*50) = 199. They past the limit into a point where other types can't.

Lets say you stop this by maxing the strength at 99, then the trait is useless to anyone that isn't a low level. Removing one-fifth there traits.

No...It just makes it easier to learn skills that your oponent has learned. It's not even at the same skill level.

Doesn't matter, all that does is force the players to use the shadow to learn traits then after they have all the traits they can focus on leveling, once max level they have the max character.

Reminds me of Fallout's endurance.

It doesn't change the fact that the shadow has all the traits, there is also the same exploit here as in Accel World. The player opens one profile of each type, then they learn the traits of these classes. Even in a VRMMO only two people would have to swap profiles to have all the traits.

The only reason to use other classes is so that the shadow can learn there traits.

Corruption is a gamble. The higher the risk, the higher the reward. You can use it and it may cause your stats to instantly drop to 1 and make the power boost completely worthless.

Why are you nerfing the only skill with a condition. Now this skill has such a huge risk no one is going to use it when you compare it to other skill.

It gives "permanent" enchants double the effect. It's not doubling all enchants and not the ones you are using in battle.

How does the change any thing? Don't you use the resources you gain outside battle to craft weapons for battle?

Can't you buy healing potions and mana potions?

Any enchants increases a effect, that effect leads to a bonus that bonus the player can use for combat. There for any enhancement in crafting, mining, alchemy, social etc. leads back to combat.

Just, no. You are still not understanding. There are not 60 traits in the game. There are 60 traits accessed solely in this 1 ways to make jobs mean something.
 

You said skills, abilities and basically anything can be a trait. I since all summonings also need to mean something, they will have traits.

If the summonings don't have traits then they are only unique in element, meaning you have (summoning * element) in a normal rpg that is 6 elements so 6 summonings. Making the warrior class the strongest short term to use, while you improve your shadow.

"unaware" means and realize that those aren't "limit breaks"

Unaware has nothing to do with limit breaks, unaware is a defined condition. So lets say unaware is checked by the view of the target, when the Rouge attacks outside the view of the player they do double damage.

Not a over powered skill, week even. However if you now gave the Rouge a skill like traps, he could keep doing double damage while remaining out of view.

Giving the Rouge a skill that drains the players life by 50% could lead to a skill that does 100% damage. By not setting limits this could be a over powered skill, although at this moment it doesn't even stand against the others.

Also limit breaks are part of any game, you just need to balance them.

Yes, but also consider that item effects could be weaker than magic effects and therefor this balances out.

Not the problem, it's a class that functions outside of the main game. Players that use this class can only buff other parties and not play with them, they are not needed in a team and so will be kept out of battle. 

In a story this provides the whole teamwork thing, in a game this just separates players from others.

25% boost may be too strong, but the limit break in this case is fine as it is a once a week thing.

How is this weak. Say it can only be used once, that is a instant 25% boost over a team that doesn't have this character. If it can repeat, it's just a matter of keeping players alive until your stronger than the opponent.

Any limit break skill is powerful, look at MMO perfect builds they focus around limit breaks.

You can't abuse this trait without a fully prepping and planning very far ahead simply by dint of the speed of leveling.

That is what MMO players do.

Micro transaction games depend on this planing, the players focus so hard on getting the most out of the game, they fails to see that there isn't even much of a game.

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