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jkuehlin

Hey audio guys...how are your coding/programming chops?

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Might get a bit off-topic here, but regarding DIY hardware, I highly recommend the GDC talk of Mick Gordon, speaking about his hell machine:

 

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On 9/10/2017 at 9:26 PM, jkuehlin said:

A lot of musicians seem to want to avoid the coding, scripting, and programming end. Does anyone else here find the design or logic end of the game world just as much fun and intriguing as playing your instrument? 

It can be very helpful to know how to implement audio when working in games. I have to help prep files and implement them into Unity but I cannot program a full game myself. I can read some code, do some simple Json or XML but I'd never really call myself a coder. But I can work with middleware or certain proprietary programs that certain developers use. 

It gives you as the audio content provider more direct control over how the sounds and/or music behave within the game. It can increase your odds of being able to make your audio vision come to life. 

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I'm a bit late to this thread I think, but maybe I'd count as a sound guy with programming chops.  I'm a programmer in terms in education and my job, but I'm also a self-taught audio guy- as in I occasionally do mix/master jobs for bands.  It's once or twice come in handy for projects where we needed music for small web games or something, so I'd throw together a quick song or two, do a super quick mix, but then I was also the one integrating the audio into the game.  I don't think that happens very often, so I think it was cool to be able to do the whole process from songwriting to coding the audio into the game.

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11 hours ago, nsmadsen said:

It gives you as the audio content provider more direct control over how the sounds and/or music behave within the game. It can increase your odds of being able to make your audio vision come to life. 

I got on a design team a while back (which has since fallen apart). I was basically the idiot in the group with a bunch of fancy audio gear, but it at least helped me realize what I needed to learn. It came down to the lead guy asking me 'can this be done or not', and the answer was always 'let me find out'. And then when it came down to the GDD and triggering dialogue/sfx on certain cues, I really really needed to know more about what I was looking at in order to know what was triggering what in the game.

But since I've spent the last 9 months re-focusing my career into learning Unity and taking as many C# classes as I could find online (Udemy has been amazing), at the last local game-dev meet up, I was able to at least follow questions that were being asked and discussion around the table much better. If anything, I had really felt the need to be able to speak the same language as other developers. Because ultimately, the service industry component of any audio business is understanding someone else vision. I felt terrible holding the other guys back because they had to re-translate every sentence as if they were talking to an air headed drummer lol.

In the meantime, I finally got my new audio facility open (lost the last one two years ago in a nasty fire). Have 3 staff and intern now, getting ready to launch a killer webpage, and  keeping the lights on with a steady stream of commercial music, advertising and broadcast clients while I'm making the transition to games. 

 

Ps....Nate, and immensely grateful to you and Brian (the Game Sound Con guy) for your pointers a year ago how to get started in this biz...I've followed your guy's recommendations as closely as I can. (Though I haven't touched middleware yet, because I'm still working on getting grounded in the basics for now). Thanks again!

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1 hour ago, jkuehlin said:

when it came down to the GDD and triggering dialogue/sfx on certain cues, I really really needed to know more about what I was looking at in order to know what was triggering what in the game.

IMO in order to do sound right in a game, you need either a programmer with some audio knowledge, or an audio person with some game dev knowledge, so that at least one person involved can be the bridge between those two worlds.  Someone needs to process the audio and get it into a useable shape for the game (in terms of dynamics compression, splitting it into the sound queues, exporting to the right formats and locations, etc.)- and it's my opinion that if the person doing this doesn't have some audio/mixing experience, the results can be less than stellar.  Weird stuff like inconsistent volumes for similar sounds, voices getting buried, subbass getting out of control, overall volume being too low, nothing ducking under other sounds properly, etc.

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On 9/27/2017 at 12:04 PM, trjh2k2 said:

IMO in order to do sound right in a game, you need either a programmer with some audio knowledge, or an audio person with some game dev knowledge, so that at least one person involved can be the bridge between those two worlds. 

Who gets paid more? The guy who designs it or the guy who implements it?

Lets say between 2 guys both working on the same project...one who has a basic knowledge of audio but thoroughly understands the process of implementing it. The other who has a tremendous knowledge of all things audio (tracking, mixing, editing, design, composition, foley, and dialogue), but has a only a basic knowledge of middleware and not a whole lot more.

If they are BOTH on the same project, who is most likely getting the bigger paycheck?

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I have no idea or opinion as to who gets paid more- but what does that have to do with anything?  What's more important, the pay scale or the quality of the output?  Ideally, I'd want BOTH of those people on the team, so that they can meet eachother half way, be able to speak the same language, and produce the most appropriate result for the project.

 

Edit:

I guess better way to put it is that there's any number of reasons why one might get paid more than the other, but both are probably cases of "you get what you pay for".

Edited by trjh2k2

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7 minutes ago, trjh2k2 said:

but what does that have to do with anything?

Your awareness of the demand for certain skillet specializations has enormous impact on your marketing, business strategy, career path, direct competition, and what you can or can't offer a team.

9 minutes ago, trjh2k2 said:

What's more important, the pay scale or the quality of the output? 

Thats like asking what's more important, an ignition or a gas pedal. Both the skill set and the pay scale are necessary parts of a system, and if the engine lacks either it doesn't run. You get zero output if you pay zero dollars.

14 minutes ago, trjh2k2 said:

Ideally, I'd want BOTH of those people on the team, so that they can meet eachother half way, be able to speak the same language, and produce the most appropriate result for the project.

Great. So do I. The original question is which is worth more money.

16 minutes ago, trjh2k2 said:

I guess better way to put it is that there's any number of reasons why one might get paid more than the other, 

Such as?

 

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