• Advertisement
  • Popular Tags

  • Popular Now

  • Advertisement
  • Similar Content

    • By ShinGoukiZero
      Hello my name is Jaymie and I am new here so I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask these questions. I have a few questions regarding my education and I feel in order to get the best answers I need to elaborate some on my current situation and background so I apologize if this is long winded. (I have my questions at the bottom of this post if you would rather not read my life story or think it is unnecessary). 
      I am currently going to a community college in Virginia and I am in the process of getting my associate's degree with the intent of transferring to a 4-year school for a bachelor's degree. The school I am looking at is George Mason University and the program I am currently looking at is the BS in Computer Science. I initially was looking into getting their BS in Applied Computer Science with a Concentration in Computer Game Design however I decided to go for the normal CS degree instead due to my decision to get my Minor in Math. (This is due to the fact that the CS degree requires 4 out of the 7 classes that the Minor needs while the ACS degree only has 3 out of 7. ) The reason I decided to go for my Math Minor is due to searching what math is useful or even used in game design on this forum.(One such example here. I also apologize if I am not supposed to post links.) I enjoy math to a certain extent and I personally feel I am pretty good at it. Any game programming related courses that the ACS degree offered are available to the CS degree except for one course so I don't think I really am missing out on anything except for the 3 Art classes that the ACS degree requires. That is when I had the Idea to get a Minor in Art and Visual Technology as well to not only get those 3 courses but 2 additional courses as well. They also have a Minor for Computer Game Design and a Minor for Music Technology which are Minors I think I also would love to get.  This is where my dilemma comes in as a lot of the resources I have been looking at suggest that it is not the best Idea to go for multiple minors or two different types of career paths for my degree(i.e. programming and art). I don't necessarily feel that any of these Minors would be useless in the game design field or that they would hinder me even. I do feel however that 4 Minors is too much and I would probably be better off Double Majoring. I would love to double Major in CS and in Computer Game Design but In all honesty I would rather not be in school 2 or possibly more extra years as I am already kind of late to the game of getting my degree. (I'm 23 so I know I'm not that old but the mistakes I have made in life have led to me getting my education 6 years later than I could have and I would like to produce actual results. Maybe some time after I get a job with my CS degree I'll consider going back for another or even go to a game design school but not right now.) I realize that art and sound design are things that I probably would not encounter at a company being that I am programming focused but I still feel they would be useful skills to have and things I would like to know anyway if I work on things on my own. (Which I intend to do as well as work with others.) As of right now I am leaning in the direction of BS CS with the Math and Art minor due to it more or less being the same curriculum as the ACS just with a few more classes. I believe I am more or less set in stone on the Math Minor and on the BS CS degree, however I am fairly indecisive on taking one of the other 3 Minors and at times I even lean towards the Computer Game Design Minor. Any minor I don't take I intend to learn at least some portion of during my free time. 
      Questions(I realize that I am kind of assuming what I think the answer is with these. I know that answers aren't always yes or no but I am unsure as to how to address my concerns without asking these types of leading questions.) 
      Will employers, be they in the Game Industry or any other field, even care about my Minor or if I have multiple? Will employers write me off as indecisive if I take a Minor or even learn something in my free time that some would say is unrelated to my field? (i.e. Programming and Art or Programming and Music Technology)  As I am getting my CS degree, what are some of your opinions on the Minors I am interested in (Art, Music Technology, Computer Game Design) to compliment my degree.(I am open to opinions on the Math Minor as well however I have decided to commit to getting it unlike with the others where I am still on the fence.) Thank you in advance if you took the time to read this lengthy post or if you answer any of my questions.
      Have a good day,
      Jaymie
    • By kin kita
      Hello GameDev!
      This is an introduction to a new web app: Vitalkia.com. homepage - Vitalkia
       
      Making silly games and sharing them with friends and people online is something that is really special to me. When I was 13-14 I used to hang at various game forums a lot. I didn't really make any amazing games, but that didn't matter. What makes us love making games is sharing it with others and learn. Because of this, as a side project while I study, I've been making a new game creator tool. It lets you create cool games completely in your browser. This app will help you creating games!
      I've recently created a simple interactive tutorial that takes you step by step through creating a platform game:
      Platform tutorial
      This tutorial will teach you how to make a simple platform game and introduce you to the app.
      So far it's still very early in development, but it's very possible to create great looking games, here is an example.
       
       
      More info:
      The app lets you create games anywhere, anytime. Since it's cloud based, it doesn't matter which computer you use. All code and resources gets stored in your own personal web space associated with your account. Your account can be from Google or a new Vitalkia account if you want.
      You don't need to know how to code. The engine allows for direct Javascript coding but also the use of code blocks. The code blocks makes it easy to quickly create something that works.
      After you've created your game you can easily export it. It makes it directly available to everyone with an internet connection!
      There are still many things to do. For example more code blocks needs to be added, and some bug fixes, but I am looking forwards the future of the app and what people will be able to create with it!
       
       
    • By Alex Snyder
      My university class this term is prompting me to ask a few questions, and hopefully you guys could help me out. I'm supposed to crowdsource ideas and techniques on how to "sell" my prototype asset. For context, my prototype is a procedural weapon generator similar to the one used by the Borderlands series.
    • By ilia.glushchenko
      Hello everyone!
      I found my self recently in a dire need of a dedicated game physics discord server. The reason is I would really love being able to talk or chat with people who have some real experience in the field, such as people that I could find here. I really struggled to find one. So I started one myself. If you have any knowledge that you could share or you would like to learn something or just chat, we would be happy to welcome you there.
      https://discord.gg/QF9wVwu
    • By Vito Morlino
      Greetings, all!
      I am in the beginnings of my journey to become a gameplay programmer. I'm looking at current job listings and conducting a gap analysis for myself so I can see what I need to work on and develop a plan to improve my skills where they are lacking. I am comfortable working with multiple languages including Java, JavaScript, Python, C#, and a few others involved in game development, and I am most experienced and familiar with C++. Comparing the lists of skills required in gameplay programmer listings to my current skills, what I lack most is experience developing for consoles. Many of the job postings required experience developing for consoles (Xbox One and PS4). I looked around the internet and the only way I could find to get experience was to register with Sony/Microsoft as a developer, but that could only happen if I was already employed (or at least self-employed). Perhaps I was just looking in the wrong places - using the wrong keywords in my searches.
      Is there a way I can get some experience programming for these and future consoles as a student?
      How should I go about furthering my skills developing for consoles once I have access? What should I learn specific to these consoles (that I am not already learning from programming for PC)?
      How different is programming for Xbox/Playstation from programming for PC?
      Thanks!
      -Vito
  • Advertisement
  • Advertisement

Master's at CMU vs. Digipen's Bachelor

Recommended Posts

Hi I'm a diploma student that graduated from Singapore. Going over my choices for university/college, other then the ones in Singapore, I am applying for both Digipen's RTIS and CMU's Master's in Entertainment Technology, both in USA.

(I graduated from, http://www.nyp.edu.sg/schools/sidm/full-time-courses/game-development-and-technology.html , notice at the bottom that it says I can have direct entry to the Master's at CMU)

Part of my research, is to know the benefits and demerits of going to either. Unfortunately, I have not found many places that details CMU's MET course in detail, and from what I see on its website it seems to be a much more, higher level topic that goes beyond programming.

My main concern is that I am not skilled enough for the Master's at CMU. While I am confident in my C++ (used it for around 4 years), I am not confident enough to say that I can create a Game Engine myself (given infinite time). Given that I am not a US citizen but I want to work in the US, I'm not sure if a Master's is very helpful compared to Digipen's network and exposure.

Digipen's Bachelor Degree in RTIS seems to fit my bill as it allows me to breakthrough to the industry while setting up my foundations properly. 

What I'm looking for is advice as well as determining which is more suited for me. A bit more about me, I'm generally more interested in actual programming rather then the game design or the game itself. Being able to efficiently optimize an algorithm or having a clever solution to a programming issue, for now, gives me more highs then balancing a delicate game.

I'm currently serving my National Service (compulsory uniformed service) and am finishing it next year. So while I have already secured a placement in Digipen Singapore, I would like to look into the US since I do believe more opportunities lay there.

Also, 2 years at CMU compared to 4 years at Digipen.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
5 hours ago, HunkofSteel said:

What I'm looking for is advice as well as determining which is more suited for me.

Only YOU can make this determination. It's YOUR LIFE decision, not ours. You can make a simple Decision Grid and figure this out for yourself. It will require some research, but doing that research yourself is the only way to make this decision about YOUR life. 

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson25.htm

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/m70.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tom Sloper said:

Only YOU can make this determination. It's YOUR LIFE decision, not ours. You can make a simple Decision Grid and figure this out for yourself. It will require some research, but doing that research yourself is the only way to make this decision about YOUR life. 

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson25.htm

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/m70.htm

I understand that which is why I put that there. However, while information abounds for Digipen RTIS, I can barely find any info regarding CMU's master course. Which is why I've posted here hoping I can get some information. This is part of the research I'm doing; seeing other people's perspective and arguments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

You're lucky:). Singapore-based NYP DET/Digipen RTIS alumni here. It really depends on you - the subsidies provided by the local institutions is great, if you're intending on working in singapore it might be good to make a head start on local ground; Digipen's been making a splash. That said, I've known both CMU and Digipen students now working in Ubisoft Singapore; end of the day it's all up to the individual. As a Digipen student, I can tell you it's going to be hard and rigorous, but you'll have more projects under your belt than CMU I believe. And it's not necessarily 4 years, I think you can take classes during the break semesters - I was in the earlier batch where the course was 2+ years, do check.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, unless something's changed, I believe there's a semester where you get to go to Digipen USA for a student exchange, that's the time where you've to work your opportunities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Among the many items on your decision grid, make sure you include the difficulty of a game-specific degree if you choose to change careers.

Although the definitions are always a little vague, tech workers tend to change jobs about 15-20 times over their lifetime. Various management sites I frequent suggest people change careers (with varying definitions of what that means) 2-5 times over their lifetime.  Talk to parents and other old people about how their life ambitions have changed.

While you might want to be developing games now, and you might want to be developing game ten years from now, always consider that your life situation may change. Age discrimination in games is very real, and many developers struggle to find new jobs starting around age 35.

Having a degree that is not game-centric will help if you want to stay in the software field but are either unwilling or unable to work in the game industry.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/2/2017 at 1:04 PM, ddengster said:

Hi,

You're lucky:). Singapore-based NYP DET/Digipen RTIS alumni here. It really depends on you - the subsidies provided by the local institutions is great, if you're intending on working in singapore it might be good to make a head start on local ground; Digipen's been making a splash. That said, I've known both CMU and Digipen students now working in Ubisoft Singapore; end of the day it's all up to the individual. As a Digipen student, I can tell you it's going to be hard and rigorous, but you'll have more projects under your belt than CMU I believe. And it's not necessarily 4 years, I think you can take classes during the break semesters - I was in the earlier batch where the course was 2+ years, do check.

 

I've checked this, and while the course before was an accelerated course, the current one is no longer like that. Not too sure about taking classes during breaks, but I did check and find the Digipen USA student exchange you were talking about. It happens for one semester. So here is a concern, I'd rather find a job in USA then Singapore, and its harder to get a job when the degree is done overseas. Could I possible spend 3 years in Singapore doing the degree, then swapping over to Digipen USA to finish it?

 

9 hours ago, frob said:

Among the many items on your decision grid, make sure you include the difficulty of a game-specific degree if you choose to change careers.

Although the definitions are always a little vague, tech workers tend to change jobs about 15-20 times over their lifetime. Various management sites I frequent suggest people change careers (with varying definitions of what that means) 2-5 times over their lifetime.  Talk to parents and other old people about how their life ambitions have changed.

While you might want to be developing games now, and you might want to be developing game ten years from now, always consider that your life situation may change. Age discrimination in games is very real, and many developers struggle to find new jobs starting around age 35.

Having a degree that is not game-centric will help if you want to stay in the software field but are either unwilling or unable to work in the game industry.

 

This is also why I am asking on these forums. I do not know how much a Master's at Entertainment Technology would help me compared to a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science and Real-Time Interactive Simulations. What my brain is telling me, is that people would be relunctant to hire a Masters holder without sufficient experience. Moreover, it seems to me that M.E.T is focused solely on, well, entertainment systems.

In contrast, Digipen's degree is first a degree in Computer Science, then an Real-Time Interactive Simulation (RTIS). RTIS could mean anything in a computer, from an OS to each program. So it seems to me that this degree is more far-reaching then CMU's. Am I correct in this assumption?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, HunkofSteel said:

This is also why I am asking on these forums. I do not know how much a Master's at Entertainment Technology would help me compared to a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science and Real-Time Interactive Simulations. What my brain is telling me, is that people would be relunctant to hire a Masters holder without sufficient experience. Moreover, it seems to me that M.E.T is focused solely on, well, entertainment systems.

In contrast, Digipen's degree is first a degree in Computer Science, then an Real-Time Interactive Simulation (RTIS). RTIS could mean anything in a computer, from an OS to each program. So it seems to me that this degree is more far-reaching then CMU's. Am I correct in this assumption?

Vague words here. What is 'more far-reaching'? You can reach far in many directions. You can be a hack but be surrounded by the right people you've met at any varsity. You can be a programming guru but have bad social skills. A piece of paper will only take you so far.

Not many can detail out the all differences between CMU and Digipen courses. I can only tell you about the high number of game projects Digipen puts you through. Also, I think you have the option to apply to skip a few courses (you'll have to take a written test I believe).

 

EDIT: You're asking for specifics here. Email directly to Digipen's contact email address, they'll have most accurate answers.

 

Edited by ddengster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Story time:

I had a co-worker who attended a game-specific school for their bachelors degree.  After working in the industry for about two years he applied to several of the graduate schools nearby in the hopes of getting a masters degree in computer science. He took the GRE tests and scored mediocre results. All three local universities he applied to turned him down. He appealed to the one he most wanted to go to, and they said the game school was not rigorous enough around theory and mathematics.

I recalled my own experiences entering grad school about the math and theory courses, and quizzing my co-worker friend I could tell his skills in both were far below what mine were entering the program, and mine were barely adequate. He forwarded a copy of the university's response to his game school, and the department heads said that my co-worker friend was at the top of his class in their theory and math classes, and also appealed to ask why the university would reject him from the program so easily.  

Taking the appeals seriously, the school agreed that if he could get passing marks on the senior-level mathematics and theory courses they would let him in to the program. The Monday after he took the tests, he came in and told me there was no way he passed the tests, he had no idea about most of the concepts and the math was far beyond him. He only knew the statistics relevant to game development and failed the rest, had no clue about most of the discrete mathematics, and struggled with calculus. While he could handle most of the data structures, he couldn't even understand many of the questions being asked in the CS theory tests.

He said the end of the next week that his game school professors were surprised that he did so poorly on the tests, and he relayed that one suspected the university was setting him up to fail with extra-hard tests. But given my own experiences with their graduates, while game school graduates have adequate skills as coders of game algorithms, most are woefully under-skilled at any tasks requiring pure computer science.

 

I've worked inside and outside the game industry.  There are some jobs where it really doesn't matter. If a game school graduate were to apply to many business programming jobs they could probably do fine; there may be some learning curves to pick up SQL and similar, but they are easily learned. However, if the job involved more of the science side of computer science skills, I would not trust any of the game school graduates I have known. 

 

And finally, regarding the masters degree, when hiring I personally see the degree as roughly similar to six months of work experience focusing on a topic, and a slightly higher than normal drive to focus on the details. The grad students themselves (including me those many years ago) see their accomplishment as far greater than that.  The sad truth is that many industry veterans can design and implement similar algorithms and techniques within a few weeks that take PhD candidates months or even years to develop.  It won't have the same mathematical rigor nor as many references and citations, but the work of the veterans is usually as good or better and implemented in a small fraction of the time.

Students compare themselves to other students. Among other students the oldest and closest to graduation compare favorably to those with fewer years. Among each other some students are stellar.  But when they enter the workforce even the most stellar student discovers they are still entry level, possibly comparing favorably to other junior developers with a year or two of experience, but no higher, and certainly not comparing favorably to those with a decade or more in the trenches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2017 at 1:35 AM, frob said:

Story time:

I had a co-worker who attended a game-specific school for their bachelors degree.  After working in the industry for about two years he applied to several of the graduate schools nearby in the hopes of getting a masters degree in computer science. He took the GRE tests and scored mediocre results. All three local universities he applied to turned him down. He appealed to the one he most wanted to go to, and they said the game school was not rigorous enough around theory and mathematics.

I recalled my own experiences entering grad school about the math and theory courses, and quizzing my co-worker friend I could tell his skills in both were far below what mine were entering the program, and mine were barely adequate. He forwarded a copy of the university's response to his game school, and the department heads said that my co-worker friend was at the top of his class in their theory and math classes, and also appealed to ask why the university would reject him from the program so easily.  

Taking the appeals seriously, the school agreed that if he could get passing marks on the senior-level mathematics and theory courses they would let him in to the program. The Monday after he took the tests, he came in and told me there was no way he passed the tests, he had no idea about most of the concepts and the math was far beyond him. He only knew the statistics relevant to game development and failed the rest, had no clue about most of the discrete mathematics, and struggled with calculus. While he could handle most of the data structures, he couldn't even understand many of the questions being asked in the CS theory tests.

He said the end of the next week that his game school professors were surprised that he did so poorly on the tests, and he relayed that one suspected the university was setting him up to fail with extra-hard tests. But given my own experiences with their graduates, while game school graduates have adequate skills as coders of game algorithms, most are woefully under-skilled at any tasks requiring pure computer science.

This is exactly what I'm more worried about. I know Digipen's course is very rigorous and daunting, but I do not know how it compares to other universities CS. Thanks for the sharing though, it was very informative! What your post has more or less convinced me is that getting a Masters degree is not as good as it seems simply because I do not have the experience to back it up, and thus am more of a liability then an asset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Advertisement