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61 comments, last by Promit 6 years, 2 months ago
2 hours ago, iedoc said:

i have to ask, what is Rube? Sound like lube. Is there a link to it or something? It sounds over-hyped, and we all know where hype leads.

I immidiatly had to think of Big bang theory...

"Noooo, don't ask!!!" :) ... we have had way to many confusing thread about that in the past.

 

Just search for Kavik Kang... he made some very long threads about his system. And yes, the hype was real back then, at least on his side. He claimed his ruleset could create a "god", whatever that meant.

 

Maybe he was right. Maybe somebody went through all his documents he produced and can confirm that... for me it was TL; DR

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2 hours ago, iedoc said:

i have to ask, what is Rube? Sound like lube. Is there a link to it or something? It sounds over-hyped, and we all know where hype leads. No mans sky? (I actually enjoyed no mans sky for a couple hours when it first came out, but there were a lot of unhappy people that had high expectations) 

Also whats with the "you people" stuff Kavik? are you not part of the human race like everyone else here? I'm actually curious if you think your from a country nobody else here is from, or if there's something else that separates you from us. Is it possible your failures have something to do with your attitude towards others? I get a not so faint feeling when reading your posts, that you might actually think your godlike, and every human on earth is too dumb to realize how jaw-dropping amazing you are

Rube is the end result of 300 years of evolution of games that are far more complex than the ones you make.  The first post on my blog describes Rube.  But you have no frame of reference to understand it, so it is more of a glimpse into the nature of Rube without giving it away so you can't just plagiarize me as people in your industry have done so often before.

As Gian points out, one way of describing Rube is that it is a functioning simulation of God.  The long sought after "Holy Grail" of simulation design.  There has never been any "hype", in the end Rube is actually shockingly simple.

"I wish that I could live it all again."

Again with the "you people" thing... racist. I can't help that I was born a mere human :P 

11 minutes ago, Kavik Kang said:

As Gian points out, one way of describing Rube is that it is a functioning simulation of God.  The long sought after "Holy Grail" of simulation design.  There has never been any "hype", in the end Rube is actually shockingly simple.

The only thing I might add is: what good is something nobody understands?

Maybe what you produced is so far advanced that people will only really grasp the concept 300 years in the future. Maybe you ARE the Da Vinci of game designers...

 

But unless you you want to put your idea on nice paper and store it hoping future generations to aknowledge your genius, you probably should work on a demonstration of the concept people around you can understand.

As far as I know the response to the prototype ruleset you produced was rather mixed from the few people who actually cared to try it. Maybe make it even simpler to get more people to try it, and more people to understand it?

After all, what you have at the moment doesn't look like a product that can be sold to anyone...

 

But really, is this topic just about your Rube system in the end?

8 minutes ago, iedoc said:

Again with the "you people" thing... racist. I can't help that I was born a mere human :P 

I am sure you can... ask your local friendly necromancer or vampire. They will know a cure ;)

21 minutes ago, iedoc said:

Again with the "you people" thing... racist. I can't help that I was born a mere human :P 

Are there other forms of sentient life that I'm unaware of? Please inform me man.

Tho I guess you could go with cybernetic mods... ;):P 

 

@Gian-Reto, as far as I can tell, given the history here, this probably won't get anywhere really. As others have advised, make a prototype. There are many many tools out there that can make this fairly easy. Since he won't do that, then hire someone. He doesn't want to do that, then what are we supposed to do? People seem to have gone in contortions in long threads before, and it seems to have gotten nowhere. 

 

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

The important question is...can Rube be used to power robot communism? :D

23 minutes ago, mikeman said:

The important question is...can Rube be used to power robot communism? :D

Lol, Rube becomes the central planning AI ;) 

Oh the irony of this all....

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

We really need to be careful when comparing "One main designer" and "Design by committee" results, and compare apples to apples. If you compare the work of a skilled, experienced, and highly successful designer to that what a group of kindergartners on excessive sugar and coffee come up with, then you're not going to have a very fair time and get a rather biased outcome, much like you would if you sat a group of seasoned designers down and compared their work with that of a single sugar and caffeine pumped kid.

Another important factor when gauging the skill of a designer is whether or not they've worked within the project budget - And that is not just a cash value thing, but also a skill issue. What are the overall skills of the team and what are they actually able to achieve? You can have the most graceful and flawless mechanic and visual designs ever planned, but they're not worth much if the team you're working with doesn't have the skills and resources to do everything to spec by launch day.

 

And of course there is the wonderful issue of design complexity, and confusing it for quality: A more detailed and more complex design is not a sign of it being superior, it is a sign of it being more detailed and complex. A mechanical power transfer mechanism with a million intermeshed pieces all working together to transfer rotational energy from a motor to some manner of tool is "Extremely detailed and complex", but odds are it is vastly inferior to a handful of suitably designed gears/cogs. 

You can run the maths and calculate out all the gravitational forces in the entire solar system to get a "Perfectly accurate simulation" of where every grain of dust will be over the next 10 years, but if all you really wanted was "Where abouts would Mars be..." then you've wasted a lot of time and effort on details that simply didn't matter. 

A huge part of a game designer's job, whether we're talking about computer or board games, is distilling out the essence of the design and using the parts that are actually needed while discarding those that are merely distractions, and doing so in a way that is readily understood and enjoyed by the player. And when it comes to board games this can become an exercise in information presentation.

The last version of RISK rules I read were a great example of "Close, but no cigar" design presentation. I'm specifically thinking of the reinforcement mechanic rules, which frankly were a mess. (Trying to relearn a game's rules when you have a 10 year old hopped up on sugar interrupting and insisting they 'know the rules' is a 'fun' holiday experience.) The information could have been far clearer if done in a more point form format with a small table, but instead they give some long and slightly awkward paragraphs describing the mechanic in a general sense that also ends up burying the minimum reinforcement rate somewhere.

- At the very least you should start off a rule's section with what the minimum standard of what a player should expect every turn, and then expand on it from there.

Old Username: Talroth
If your signature on a web forum takes up more space than your average post, then you are doing things wrong.
39 minutes ago, deltaKshatriya said:

Lol, Rube becomes the central planning AI ;) 

Oh the irony of this all....

 

Now THAT sound like a dystopia, unless his system does no reflect the writing style in his usual threads ;)

 

... yeah, I really hoped this would turn into a more productive discussion, given the OP was a half decent opener for some discussion. But alas, I probably was wrong.

 

Well, if anyone REALLY wants to discuss the importance of vision and direction in game development, I'm over there in the corner waiting while Kavik goes on about his one system to rule them all here...

2 minutes ago, Gian-Reto said:

Now THAT sound like a dystopia, unless his system does no reflect the writing style in his usual threads ;)

In which case it'll have a 50,000 page manual for operating it. Or it'll be like a "Hey Siri" or "Hey Alexa" type system.

"Hey Rube, can I have a cheeseburger please?"

"First you have to understand what a cheeseburger is in the context of this system. I all started 5 million years ago when dinosaurs invented the first brontosaurus sandwich....

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

<3 hours later>

And that is how space aliens have perverted the cheeseburger into what it is today and why it's all so difficult to comprehend"

"I still don't have a cheeseburger..."

8 minutes ago, Gian-Reto said:

... yeah, I really hoped this would turn into a more productive discussion, given the OP was a half decent opener for some discussion. But alas, I probably was wrong.

Well one can always hope,  but given how Kavik does his threads and posts...

8 minutes ago, Gian-Reto said:

Well, if anyone REALLY wants to discuss the importance of vision and direction in game development, I'm over there in the corner waiting while Kavik goes on about his one system to rule them all here...

We might need to spin off into a new thread that isn't so toxic, considering how this one is like radioactive. It's an interesting topic on its own though.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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