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digitaldirt

RPG Games For Girls!!!

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digitaldirt    122
Hi, I am inquiring about the game teams on this network who are making RPG games. I have 2 questions. 1. Is your theme primarily cliche castle ages or cliche futuristic? or do you have some new idea for your game? 2. Is anyone specificaly designing their game for a girl/woman audience? As I notice, that their really isn''t any games for famales in the RPG genre. Its all boobs, guns and armor. Anything new? I''d love to hear about it.

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digitaldirt    122
Not at all. But that is the attitude of a "guy" developer. They are ignorant of the famale audience in games, as they are in relationships i suppose. who knows...

I think there is a lot you can do, without resulting to "Pink" and "My Little Pony".

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Hitchhiker90    130
We can''t program for an audience we don''t understand

Hitchhiker90
"There''s one bitch in the world, one bitch with many faces" -- Jay
"What are you people, on dope?" -- Mr. Hand

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MadKeithV    992
Favorite quote:

"Women are made to be loved, not to be understood."

As an aside - many women are attracted to MMRPGs, specially the more social ones. I just came back from surfing Salon.com, and they had an article on Diablo and Diablo II being a "virtual fashion show" because of the way your equipment interacts with the visual depiction of your character, both in real-time and in the equipment screen. This is something that can be used to attract women to the genre: the ability to make your character look the way you want it to, including clothing style and colour.

I think you do not need to design "specifically" for girls or women. Just make sure that there is a fair cross-section of characters available, and perhaps make it a little more difficult for teenage boys with hormonal imbalances to create the oh-so-typical scantily leather-clad buxom amazon. You may find you attract more female players than you were expecting.

And yes, I'm back


Edited by - MadKeithV on December 4, 2001 4:15:51 AM

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Rixter    785
I''ve always been an RPG fan, mostly console, although there are some CRPG''s that have caught my eye. Anyway, I have always thought of RPG''s as being more neutral as to who they are targeted at, but maybe I simply haven''t been paying attention. But I do have a friend who has a sister that plays more RPG''s than anyone I know, all on the Playstation and Dreamcast, but still.

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There are bombs exploding all around us!!

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Silvanis    363
I think creating your game specifically for a female audience is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, keeping in mind that there ARE female players, and that in general, they would like a stronger/more realistic version of female characters is a good thing.

Basically, I have a RPG in mind (console RPG style) that has about 30 playable characters, with half being female and a good portion of those being roles that are typically male.

I''m also designing a Zelda-style game with two main characters, a female that wants to take up the sword and shield like her dad, and a male mage type...this one is more likely to be finished, since it''s more fleshed out : )

But, in general, we need to keep in mind that most females don''t wander around in bikinis all the time in real life, so why should they in our games?

Silvanis

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Mooglez    122
1. I'm old schooled. Personally I like the blade runner/syndicate type of futuristic enviroment combined with oriental culture. But you don't always have to stick to a single cliche... find a way to make up new ones or combine them.

2. There are new possibilities that can be explored to draw more female audience. But I don't think I should be giving this kind of information out... *pulls out a huge neon flashing arrow sign behind his back that points toward sunandshadow* ^_^

quote:
Original post by MadKeithV
As an aside - many women are attracted to MMRPGs, specially the more social ones.


While I would agree that women are more attracted to MMRPG from the social interactions, this principle obviously wouldn't benefit at all toward a regular RPG.

quote:
This is something that can be used to attract women to the genre: the ability to make your character look the way you want it to, including clothing style and colour.


Here's the question, how many set of shoes, hair styles, outfits, nail polishs, etc... do you need to design to satisfy a woman ? Anyone wanna take a guess on the magic number ?

quote:
And yes, I'm back


WB

Edited by - mooglez on December 4, 2001 4:51:38 AM

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MSW    151
Interesting idea..the female audiance is largely untapped...ignored even...I imagine that if the right game came along, it could be a big hit.

To attact female players you would have to really explore what they are interested in...from just a surface level examination females seem to be driven by ''creativity''...from clothing, style, to makeing craft art...so a game (in typical guy fashion) that is basied around destructive actions (combat, etc..) isn''t going to win them over (or it would have already )

my little "UFO Powered" RPG idea (described in another thread) would be unusual enough to maybe intrest some female players...altho the anime cliches it parodies may not be thier cup of tea (nor most peoples)...it never hurts to at least try new game development angles...

It''s been said that the social aspects of MMORPGs have drawn female players...but there is another game out (single player) that has a large percentage of female players...the Sims...

In anycase a RPG for female players likely wouldn''t be something many guys would find interesting (even fun)...not just from the game setting (mideveil, futureistic, etc..) but because such a game really wouldn''t be basied on the same RPG cliche gameplay ideas as combat, magic, etc...

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Hase    313
I dont think that you have to design your game specifically for "girls". Actually I find the "games for girls" (horsies and pink stuff) idea pretty sexist to start with.

If you want to get at the female audience you have to look at what they like to play, and there´s lots of games which are being played by girls (and I´m not talking about Barbies little Dress-Up).
And I don´t think that its so much about characters. Women have no problem with male characters and vice versa (Larry Laffer and Lara Croft for example). I believe that it is more about the underlying game elements.

1) From my experience most of the games which enjoy a large female audience would be categorised as casual games. Games which you can play for twenty minutes, have some fun with, then put away. Puzzle Games, Card games, but also full price retail titles.

2) Games which have a strong "building/creating/influencing" component. This encompasses classical building games such as SimCity, Pharao and Settlers, with more emphasis on those where you can actually see people (Pharao and Settlers). This component is also found in hits like Diablo, which has a simple principle, is easy to learn and the typical casual game AND gives you the option of customising/influencing your players character.

3) Story and Puzzles. From what I´ve seen so far the old adventure games are very popular with the female audience, mostly so when enjoyed with others. Guys tend to sit down and play adventures alone, at least more so than women. So it could be possible to gear an adventure game to the idea of more than one player playing the game (I´m not talking about radical new things, just keeping in mind that there will probably be more than one person playing usually helps enough).

There are of course a lot of other factors which make games attractive for the female audience, but if one takes a closer look one sees that these features are not just for "games for girls", but can easily fit a general audience as well.
So the point for the future will probably not be making games for girls, but to stop making games exclusively for boys.

You can either leave all your raygun/bikini stuff in, I doubt that female players would mind that so much, as long as you have features that are not exclusively enjoyable by the male players. Alternatively you can take all the gender-specific items out of your game to make it fit everyone.

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eng3d    91
Game for ladies ?

1)using the "female" pride.

"NEW GAME, IS THE GAME MADE ONLY FOR MEN, THE WOMEN CAN''T UNDERSTAND THIS GAME!".

2)Childish games.

Puzzle Bobble for example.

3)The game that spend more time the friends, boyfriends and brothers.


In my case, my little sisters play :
unreal tournament, starcraft, kof95,96,97,98,99 (fans to kyo kusanagi), puzzle games, windows-solitaire, fifa2000, and more.


The woman''s brain is really complex

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Oluseyi    2103
quote:
Original post by Bunnz
Unfortunately this market is very very small!

A common misperception. Statistics indicate that about 51% of the purchasing population are women, though they tend to buy the games for husbands, sons or boyfriends. If you were to make a game that had appeal to them as well, they might pick up a copy for the self (or at least share in the gaming).

Lots of women play games; they just happen to stick to games that interest them like Solitaire.

Welcome back, MadKeithV!

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Drizzt DoUrden    100
Actually right now I am working on a small mini project with SDL and C++ about this:

During a time when dinosaurs exist, a small group of humans are forced to live underground in fear. Their leader is called "The Elder One." He is said to have lived for almost 225 years, which is what is thought to be the dawn of time. He is the only human who is really respected by other humans.

At one point, The Elder One has a dream of you, a 14 year old girl, killing the dinosaurs and bringing human life to the surface. Of course, you highly doubt you can do it, and there will be tons of emotional garbage like your father attempts to murder The Elder One to bring you back under ground, etc.

Basically, the game is on a guy and girl level but the main character is a girl. Of course, the chance of this game being publish is just about zero. . It is a 2D game.

Right now, the game is not much. But after I put some enemies in and do make the abilities I shouldn''t have much of a problem finishing it.

As for female RPGs, I say why not. I don''t know many girls who play video games, but that is because I live in New Jersey, and the girls around here spend more than 14 hours a day on making themselves look like the girls on the Jay Rule video or whatever the hell that dumb-shits name is.

I think I would still play the game. I played Resident Evil 2, and I only played the girls disk(her story was more interesting). If you mean girl ideas, then I still say why not. Maybe girls will start playing video games more often. Awsome!

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Dragonskin    122
Games that interest them, huh?

My girlfriend must be kinda odd...her favorite game is DOOM.

Hrm...maybe I SHOULD have been afraid when she held a BIG kitchen knife up to my nose the first time I visited her place.

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Girls and games, hm. I know one or two girls who are big Sid Meier fans, but the whole turn-based empire-building genre is pretty non-gender-specific. One girl I knew played a lot of FF7 and FF8...

In my experience, the girls I know are not very good at the games I play: 2D platformers, FPSs, RPGs and martial arts games. Of these, three require very quick reaction time and fine motor control. I think games aren''t made for girls because girls can''t play the usual games well, so they don''t play them, so they don''t buy them. Meanwhile, games that girls can be good at and which might appeal to girls lose financially, because girls don''t buy games, so they don''t buy those games, and guys won''t buy games built for everyone over games built for them. Curse me to my grave, but I do like my fan service...

I suppose it''s sort of a vicious cycle isn''t it? Of course, I could be wrong.

And although I don''t believe I know you, because everyone else is saying it, welcome back MadKeithV.

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sunandshadow    7426
I suppose I''m obligated to reply to this, seeing as how Mooglez has pointed a big neon arrow at me. *chuckle*

Hmm, how to attack this topic...

1) Girls are not that different from guys, really! We are certainly not incomprehensible - If I can understand both girls and guys, you should be able to to, with a little study of gendered fiction and sociology of gender roles and stuff.

2) Girls are a little different from guys, and the differences are fairly predictable. Girls are raised to think they are socially obligated to be pretty/stylish/fashionable, while all humans are naturally creative, this tends to be discouraged in boys. Female creativity is what all you poor guys would have had you not grown up in a gender-stereotyping society that treats women as more ornamental than men. To answer the question of how many hairstyles/clothes/etc would satisfy a girl, I think if you had a thousand possibilities (for all the categories together) that would be sufficient. Mush more practical to design into an MM game than a singleplayer, but any game can use a color selector to let the player customize things.

3) Girls tend to be more extroverted (people oriented) then boys, I''m not sure whether this is nature or nurture. So girls like games where NPCs have strong and dramatic personalities, and the player is asked to make choices that have social value, like dialogue choices. Japanese ren''ai games are the place to look for examples of this.

4) Girls are taught that some of the worst thing you can be are callous, indiscriminately violent, unfeeling, etc. This is one reason girls tend to react poorly to games where the player must slaughter monsters or aliens, or games where there are scream sfx and blood splatters. There''s also the fact that monster battles are really boring because they have no social or artistic element at all, and very little strategic element.

5) Girls are taught to be mothers. What do mothers do? They fix problems and injuries, give gifts, provide comfort and advice, create various things (meals, clothes), arrange things (laying out a garden, interior decorating). Look to Harvest Moon and Microsoft Bob, as well as most adventure and pattern/puzzle games for ideas about things like this.

6) The one demonstrable way that girls are naturally different from guys is their taste in people''s appearances. Get a female artist to design some of your characters. Look at one of the characters so popular with women that many have written fanfics about him: Sephiroth from FF7. Women generally like bishounens (pretty boys), sparkly things, fluffy things, slinky things (e.g. a siamese cat), and dramatic color displays (e.g. a peacock). Women also seem to be more sensitive to fractal-type things than men - examples are feathers, flowers or just petals, lightning bugs, clouds, ripples in water, spiral patterns like in a seashell or a DNA, the rainbows an oil spill makes. Shoujo anime is the area to study to learn about this.

7) It is not true that girls are completely non-violent. Girls can find violence appealing if it is individualized, romanticized, poetic justice, or creative revenge with an element of humor involved.

Did I miss anything?

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GalaxyQuest    122
First, i gotta say some of you sound like 13 year old BOYS with the pink and fluffy nonsense.

The STAR TREK series often had worlds where only women ruled, also, Buck Rogers had many roles where women where the leaders, such as that HOT N SEXY brown haired queen in the huge space ship (queen amadala??), along with planets where the women where in control and the men were the sissy's.

MMRPG's include female roles to play, such as in everquest and others. They make kick ass wizards or whatever. Although, I havnt seen much attempt to bring them together. There are a lot of female characters in everquest, at least in character!

Maybe to bring the women together, introduce women leaders(such as a queen for the empire as NPCs), where to be a royal guard, you must first be a women, then secondly an expert in protection(spells, melee, etc). Men also protect the queen. Just take a look at history.

Another idea, as I mentioned, is to define a planet, a guild, or a region of territory, where the women can begin playin there characters TOGETHER. Hopefully, this would spawn more women, in game, and out, to play.

But yes, it hasnt been done correctly, probably because most, if not all, developers and project managers and corporate $$ is run by men who havnt thought about the other half and what to do with them.

Edited by - GalaxyQuest on December 4, 2001 6:42:16 PM

Edited by - GalaxyQuest on December 4, 2001 6:43:55 PM

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MSW    151
sunandshadow - well put

Question: From a female perspective, what role would female players like to play in an singleplayer RPG?...I don''t meen a typical D&D type midevil fantasy basied RPG...but a RPG that takes place in a more current setting...

here is a idea for a RPG:

Imagine a singleplayer RPG that takes place in Chicago around 1923-24...Players control a young female school teacher...in a time when women had recently been granted the right to vote...in a time when Jazz was king and silent movies only cost a penny to watch...lots of interesting story, charactor and setting potential.

The young students in the players class would..in a way...represent the players ''stats''...the better the students are doing the higher the related stat...thins would allow for some ''side quest'' elements...like "why is Timmy doing so poorly?" and the such...allowing players to express some of thier mothering insticts...

Then add in the larger setting where America is just starting to come to grips with how women fit into society as the industrial age is in full swing...again lots of potential






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Drizzt DoUrden    100
quote:
Original post by sunandshadow
I suppose I''m obligated to reply to this, seeing as how Mooglez has pointed a big neon arrow at me. *chuckle*

Hmm, how to attack this topic...

1) Girls are not that different from guys, really! We are certainly not incomprehensible - If I can understand both girls and guys, you should be able to to, with a little study of gendered fiction and sociology of gender roles and stuff.



I agree that understanding the other gender should not be hard, but I guess for some people it just is. Those who believe it is too hard to understand usually are those who are unwilling to understand it.

quote:

2) Girls are a little different from guys, and the differences are fairly predictable. Girls are raised to think they are socially obligated to be pretty/stylish/fashionable, while all humans are naturally creative, this tends to be discouraged in boys. Female creativity is what all you poor guys would have had you not grown up in a gender-stereotyping society that treats women as more ornamental than men. To answer the question of how many hairstyles/clothes/etc would satisfy a girl, I think if you had a thousand possibilities (for all the categories together) that would be sufficient. Mush more practical to design into an MM game than a singleplayer, but any game can use a color selector to let the player customize things.



Is that hinting that you like Baldurs Gate''s character creation ability Are you giving away the secrets of what makes games that females enjoy!? lol.

quote:

3) Girls tend to be more extroverted (people oriented) then boys, I''m not sure whether this is nature or nurture. So girls like games where NPCs have strong and dramatic personalities, and the player is asked to make choices that have social value, like dialogue choices. Japanese ren''ai games are the place to look for examples of this.



I like games where NPC''s have "strong and dramatic" personalities, and I am sure other guys do, too. I don''t think this can be limited to females.

quote:

4) Girls are taught that some of the worst thing you can be are callous, indiscriminately violent, unfeeling, etc. This is one reason girls tend to react poorly to games where the player must slaughter monsters or aliens, or games where there are scream sfx and blood splatters. There''s also the fact that monster battles are really boring because they have no social or artistic element at all, and very little strategic element.



This also can not be limited to females. I hate games like Rainbow Six and Counter Strike, or other games the promote terrorism, etc. I do, however, like to kill Orc and Ogre''s and Ogrillons. So I don''t know

quote:

5) Girls are taught to be mothers. What do mothers do? They fix problems and injuries, give gifts, provide comfort and advice, create various things (meals, clothes), arrange things (laying out a garden, interior decorating). Look to Harvest Moon and Microsoft Bob, as well as most adventure and pattern/puzzle games for ideas about things like this.



Guys are taught to be fathers. Watch football, work, drink beer, order their wife and kids to do things for them, etc. Every once in a while a boy will break out of that fatherly teachings and become something more.


quote:

6) The one demonstrable way that girls are naturally different from guys is their taste in people''s appearances. Get a female artist to design some of your characters. Look at one of the characters so popular with women that many have written fanfics about him: Sephiroth from FF7. Women generally like bishounens (pretty boys), sparkly things, fluffy things, slinky things (e.g. a siamese cat), and dramatic color displays (e.g. a peacock). Women also seem to be more sensitive to fractal-type things than men - examples are feathers, flowers or just petals, lightning bugs, clouds, ripples in water, spiral patterns like in a seashell or a DNA, the rainbows an oil spill makes. Shoujo anime is the area to study to learn about this.


??? Are you saying that I am a girl because I like clouds, and Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 I mean, these things are just more stereotypes of what these guys think girls are. I guess it is just because all the girl-friends (like friends that are girls, don''t get the two confused ) I have like everything I like, and do most of the things I do. (The ones who I am not friends with wake up at 3 A.M. to put on the makeup needed for school at 7).

quote:

7) It is not true that girls are completely non-violent. Girls can find violence appealing if it is individualized, romanticized, poetic justice, or creative revenge with an element of humor involved.

Did I miss anything?


See thats more like it. What you said in the beginning: "Girls are not that much different than boys, really!" was enough. There are too many different types of personalities, and so many different types of people, noone can really say what is different.

Some people do, some people don''t.

That statement is as general as it gets.

Everyone should note that that statement doesn''t say:

"Some girls do, some girls don''t." or "Some guys do, some guys don''t."

It says people. People are general.

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sunandshadow    7426
quote:
Original post by MSW
sunandshadow - well put

Question: From a female perspective, what role would female players like to play in an singleplayer RPG?...I don''t meen a typical D&D type midevil fantasy basied RPG...but a RPG that takes place in a more current setting...



Hmm... A school teacher could work. If it''s the ''20s... how about the costume designer for a club with showgirls. The costume designer acts as a mom to the girls, and defends them from the boss and customers, and manages gangsters so they don''t destroy the club...


Drizzt - I was trying to convey the idea of a statistical difference between males and females, you know, when there''s a curve representing males and a curve representing females and the 2 overlap by 70% but you can still tell that the mean, median, and mode are all further to the right for one gender than the other.

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