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digitaldirt

RPG Games For Girls!!!

90 posts in this topic

quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
Not at all. But that is the attitude of a "guy" developer. They are ignorant of the famale audience in games, as they are in relationships i suppose. who knows...

I think there is a lot you can do, without resulting to "Pink" and "My Little Pony".



Sorry, was being sarcastic to highlight that the age old sexist views are still hanging around (Mary Kate & Ashley games for a start).

I don''t think the female''s lack of interest in games has anything to do with the content. Rather, society has told them (and all of us) that computer games are for little boys. Time is changing that for everyone as they become more mass-market anyway.

E

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I think a lot of you are still going about this from the wrong angle. You´re trying to guess at what girls want, and then create that.

1) It´s not about the main character, or the representation of that character. Male players have no problem playing female characters and vice versa.

2) It´s not only about catering to the "female skills" (at least this is what it sounds like when you describe them), the things female players go for are usally things which male players can enjoy just as much.
To create a good game you don´t have to go out of your way to include the mothering instinct or whatevery you consider to be a typically female trait.
Similarly, attacking the "female pride", as eng3d describes it won´t work. If you print on your box "GUYS ONLY", the potential female customers will think something along the lines of "what do i care" and pass it by. As chance has it, most products in our society which are labelled "guys only", are usually interesting to or primarily bought by guys alone.

3) I think the games girls are traditionally bad at have been stated pretty correctly above, but that distinction is NOT due to some inherent difference between men and women (someone suggested motor control, i think that´s bs, no offense intended), but because these games (2D platformers, FPSs, RPGs and martial arts games / beat ´em ups) are games which are the least attractive to the casual gamer, which women in nine out of ten cases are.
In order to be good at Quake Deathmatch you have to have a lot of 3d experience, quick reflexes and lots of practise. In order to be able to play a beat ´em up well you have to know a lot of moves.
Its not that women CANT be good at those games, I think they don´t want to, because they usually lack the background in those genres which equals the fact that they lack the training, which in turn makes those games too hard. The same thing goes for games with a high degree of realism (especially management sims), these (as the others mentioned) are hard to get into, and require a lot of time to be learned properly.
On a personal note: I´ve had a lot of fun playing games like SoulCalibur and Tekken with girls, but it only works when you pick up the game together (=start at more or less the same point of the learning curve), or find some way to bridge the skill gap.

For those of you who are really interested: THere is already a lot of literature in the field of media studies / gender studies, so it might be a good idea to pick some of those up at the local university library.
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The whole naked women ruling the planet while the men are sissies, show girls, buck rogers and so on. are guy ideas or possibly fantasies. i don't know. but yeah, someone said it right when they said "you guys sound like a bunch of 13 year old boys".

I brought this subject up, and I thank the ones who have replied with thoughtful responses, instead of ignorant "i don't undersand them." remarks. Its very interesting to see how the online game community see's the opposite side of things. I've been holding study groups with women of different ages, with presentations and content brainstorms, and so far i've held 32 groups of 16 women. From my studies, Women don't want to "see what little timmy is doing".. they want more worldly plots, not just "womens rights/voting". They really enjoy the fantasy genre more than the futuristic genre, but they have nothing against that genre. its been a 80/20 split. I've been using all of this in my game design for a new title.

It is my hope that we are making more strides to grow the female audience in interactive entertainment.



Edited by - digitaldirt on December 5, 2001 5:42:35 AM
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Haste - Ever heard of "chick flicks" and romance novels? Arn''t those aimed more at females then males?

I''m not saying a female isn''t going to be interested in guy type forms of entertainment (or vice versa)... or that certain examples in entertainment cannot "cross over"...but there are some very general stories, ideas, concepts, characters, and themes that attract females more then men (and vice versa).

Games being a form of entertainment are no different...nor should they be...


Digitaldirt - I''m just throwing ideas up to see what sticks...It''s good that you''ve included females in your brainstorming sessions, it really is...But, from your postings, you seem to be giving them two different game settings to chose from...fantasy and futuristic...Has the potential for a more modern game setting been brought up? something that doesn''t fit into the common cliched RPG game settings?

I''m also curios about the "different ages" of females you have included in your groups...what are the age ranges? do any have kids, families? in school? single, married, divorced? grandparents? teens?
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Yay, another games for girls thread

I agree with Hase here. You don't have to target women particularly. Funnily enough, just like men, women like different things. Some girls might like playing My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land, others enjoy Quake III.

You could argue that there are two types of women gamer:

1: Regular Gamers. These play the same games as men through choice, and are therefore unlikely to even consider My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land unless they get to frag some guys in it. I believe there are women only quake clans dedicated to fragging blokes.

2: Occasional Gamers. Most women I know fall into this category. These people generally don't play games, since they often have 'better' things to do, but that doesn't mean they are completely opposed to playing games. They certainly don't spend much money on games, preferring to play on their boyfriends/brothers/fathers computer. Thus they are very unlikely to play My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land since it is very unlikely that any guy will be seen dead with it installed on his computer. They tend to prefer games which don't take a long time to play and relatively simple controls. In otherwords, stuff which you can pick up and play very quickly. Violence isn't really an issue, neither is big boobs. For example, my girlfriend likes Kill 'em All (a missile command style game where you shoot cute bunnies with parachutes) Lemmings, Tetris, Tekken 3, stuff like that. Half of the games she likes could be written in an afternoon.

In short, by writing a game like My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land, you are not only alienating the male gaming population, but you also alienate most of the female gaming population too.

In other words, just write the game how you like. Some women will like it, some women will hate it. Some men will like it, some men will hate it.


Edited by - Sandman on December 5, 2001 8:18:22 AM
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quote:
Original post by MSW
Hase - Ever heard of "chick flicks" and romance novels? Arn''t those aimed more at females then males?


But I can enjoy a good "chick flick" now and then too! SPECIALLY with my girlfriend.

I''ve been reading this thread, and what comes to mind most clearly in the whole guys vs. girls, nature vs. nurture thing is that perhaps, on the whole, girls are simply discouraged from playing computer games AT ALL.
A good game will appeal to female gamers. But it is VERY difficult to design a computer game that will actually bring more women to the PC to play games. I take my sister as an example: she''s nearly computer illiterate - knows just enough to get on the Internet and use the word processor to type out her reports and things. She plays "Spider" (a silly card game) and "patience" while she''s working sometimes, but I don''t see her ever getting into a game that requires full attention. I don''t think I could convince her to play a full game.




People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
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quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
[...]and the girls around here spend more than 14 hours a day on making themselves look like the girls on the Jay Rule video or whatever the hell that dumb-shits name is.



God, And I thought that was only my town. I now fear for all of humanity. I know many girls who dont act this way, and respect them for that. Everyone else... Hey, if you want to act stupid, be my guest.

Z.

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quote:


Original post by Hase

but because these games (2D platformers, FPSs, RPGs and martial arts games / beat ´em ups) are games which are the least attractive to the casual gamer, which women in nine out of ten cases are.
In order to be good at Quake Deathmatch you have to have a lot of 3d experience, quick reflexes and lots of practise. In order to be able to play a beat ´em up well you have to know a lot of moves.



I would be interested to know why the 2D platform genre does not get acceptance among women. Do these not count as a subset of the problem solving genre which traditionally appeal to women?

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quote:
Original post by Hase
1) It´s not about the main character, or the representation of that character. Male players have no problem playing female characters and vice versa.


Well, maybe for single-player games, but when it comes to an online game you don''t want to fool the others by looking like a girl / a girl doesn''t want the other players to think she''s a guy.
I know I wouldn''t take a female character in an online game, and my girlfriend always takes female characters too (in Darkstone, Soldier of Fortune, Quake3...). She wanted to play CounterStrike and was getting quite good at it but dropped it because she was annoyed that there''s no female character...

But again, in a single player game, I don''t mind and I don''t think girls do either.



--
New feature - Windows users, press ALT-F4 to launch the IQ test.
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@MSW:

I´m familiar with the term "chick flicks", and I think that there might come a time when computer games along those lines could work. One of the problems is that this genre of novel or film relies heavily on characters, not actions. I think what we´re talking about here is a soap game (the sims?), which would create big problems in the way of interactive storytelling. Also the genre of the classical adventure games is as good as dead, so I wouldn´t consider doing a game like that. I also think that creating games along the lines of "chick flicks" are not what the market needs right now. It is a very specialised form of entertainment geared towards the female audience, and while it may work reasonably well with films and books, I don´t think it´s wise to make games like that right now, because usually female gamers DONT want to be classified as the rosamunde-pilcher reading stereotype.
Maybe you can integrate some of the themes into a game, but you have to be very, very careful there as the line between good narrative and cliché is extremely thin with games. And before you go for the stereotypes *again*, you´d better not do it at all.
Another consideration is the current market situation. Nobody can afford making a triple A title which is geared for an audience which is as unpredictable and unreliable as female casual gamers (even if they´d like it there´s no guarantee they´d buy it - there are only very few marktet studies... etc.)

So, while I think that there may come a time when games like that are possible, I doubt that it will be within the next few years. I´m talking about full retail titles, not some cheap budget games - There would probably be an option there, but personally I wouldn´t want games to go that way. If we make games for girls, we should do it to the best of our abilites, not some crap which sells because it´s pink and has ponies in it.


@Sandman

agreed on all points, especially alienating the audience.



@MadKeithV

Sure you can enjoy a chick flick with your girl, but the situation is a bit different. If you have a game then you want someone to actively buy and play it, not consume it passively.

So maybe all we can do is make the games we would make anyways, and just make them a little bit more attractive for girls?



@AP (2)

The 2d-platform genre is as good as dead anyways (at least on the PC), so I don´t think it would be very fruitful to pursue that path. I don´t think that these games are a subset of the puzzle solving genre, as you don´t have to really solve anything, if at all, the puzzles are more about finding the right location, with a lot of running around in between. The puzzles women tend to go for are more immediate and direct, there is no context or environment you have to put it in.


@Fox Mc Cloud

I don´t think that it´s much of a problem in online games, as its all about playing a role. If someone wants to be a barbarian, you can do that and nobody will be upset if your gender doesn´t correspond with that of your character. It´s true, the deeper the immersion goes (MMORPGS), the more the players tend to choose characters which share traits with them. But including the options of female player characters isn´t really that much of a bother, and putting some gender-related gameplay issues in won´t make that much of an extra effort.

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quote:
Original post by Hase
So maybe all we can do is make the games we would make anyways, and just make them a little bit more attractive for girls?



I think that''s indeed all we can do. Perhaps get some female programmers on our teams, some female testers, artists, etc.
And ALWAYS keep in the back of your mind "what would my sister/girlfriend/wife/mother think about this feature?". Doing it that way, you will simply create a good, enjoyable game that is not blatantly sexist and therefore doesn''t scare off the female players.




People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
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quote:
Original post by Hase
Also the genre of the classical adventure games is as good as dead, so I wouldn´t consider doing a game like that.

That nearly no new adventure game is being developed doesn''t mean it wouldn''t be a good idea... I miss those games so much ! why doesn''t anyone make games like these any longer? Sam And Max and Day Of The Tentacle must be my favorite games ever
The latest (major) adventure game must be Grim Fandango from LucasArts (THE masters of the genre)... Any others apart from that?
I think it''s a genre that suits female well too.

(by the way, my girlfriend''s favorite games are real-time strategy... Total Annihilation, Total Annihilation Kingdoms etc... I guess girls rely more on reflexion than us and our "me-see-me-kill" quake-likes )

--
New feature - Windows users, press ALT-F4 to launch the IQ test.
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btw: "Chick-Flick" is just another ignorant guy term. Say a new movie is a love story, like "Serendipity"... oh no... another chick flick. Its not marketed as a chick flick. thats kinda just a slang term that has appeared by beer drinkin, football watching, guys... (I must point, those 2 examples are also stereotypes..)

The reason Fantasy and Fiction are so pleasing, is becuase they are "unknown" and that appeals to a lot of people, to discover a new land... If you did an RPG game based in a normal everyday society and the year is 2002... well... first off, try to create that world will ya... too big. In fantasy realms, the artists can really do whatever they want to do, making for a more intersting story, landscape and characters. as apposed to a suburban neighborhood and your main character is a skateboarder who has to steal homework from jimi''s house and work up the urge to ask a girl across the street to a dance. not too fun for guys or girls. just silly, like that powerranger pop-star idea. (not saying its bad, just not too fun.)

Space Quest and Kings Quest were even fun and they were both on the opposite ends of the RPG genre. excellent games though.

Btw: A genre of game that is equally enjoyed by both male and females is side-scroller games like super mario brothers, commander keen, and so on.

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Okay I just want to add a little personal note on this one.

(I''m jusing man/woman here)

Okay I''ve tried to write something here, but came up short since it all sounds like it came from a beer drinkin, football watching, guy, and if these one thing I ain''t then its that (I don''t drink and sport is something you do not watch on TV, if I had one).

You say that Commander Keen is fun or at least enjoyable, but who want to make/play those any more. I mean they were great for their time but that''s more than a decade ago.

If I should create a game that was made with women as the target group, I would ask them what they want to play. After reading through the responces I would properly come to this conclution:

A multi path adaptive story, with a dynamically changing environment that focused on character interaction and nonviolence (Or at least without all the blood and body parts)conflicct solving, using realistic situations. (Actually sounds interesting)

Where as íf I asked a male group:

Monsters, Great FX, fast.

I could do the first thing, but that would take me like a decade to write that, or the second, which could be done in less than a year.

The problem isn''t that it can''t be done, it''s just that it''s too complex.

Well that was just my thoughts on that.

-- Sturm

P.S.
What is a good game for women, in your oppinion?

---------------------------------------------------
Life after death? No thanks, I want to live NOW
--- Sturm 2001
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Yes I agree with you very much. the football/beer thing is a classic american depiction... thats all it is.

Commander Keen and Super Mario Brothers will always be fun games. The problem is, The big companies who make video games don''t see a point in making games like that, becuase even if you did, they wouldn''t sell for very much or even make the company money. You ask any new game company what they are making and no matter what genre, they all want "cut scenes"... those magical movie-like character building "cut scenes". And just by adding this little movie-isque feature into your game, you can sell it for atleast 39.99 upon initial release. Blizzard is perhaps one of the most successful companies at the whole cut-scene cinematic escapes.

But if you look at your options, everything has been done. I rack my brain for ideas of a new genre of game, and fall short. Ever since 3D came out, we''ve boxed ourselves in this reality that says... "ok... it has to be 3D, becuase its new and ''state of the art''". The whole 2D-sprites thing has also been done a million times over.

If you look at it in the whole picture of things. All industries are like this. They reach a peak in their development, where they cannot go any higher, just faster, more effects. It depends on the platform. We have yet to see a game that is fully rendered 3d action. I''m not talking about the texture, light, smoke and blood effects of the Quake III engine or Unreal2. I''m talking about serious movie quality 3D Rendering. Close to life, such as what ''Square Pictures'', did for that Final Fantasy flick.
Even that, could use a lot of improvement. But it depends on the hardware. If we all had Cray Systems or SGI setups, then we might stand a chance. But we''re stuck with our puny 2Ghz systems. hehe.

Anyway, I just wanted to further thank everyone who has been involved in this topic/discussion. It has been an interesting ride, and appreciate all the input. This posting gamedev.net community is awesome. Despite a few posters who post the outright dumbest things, this has been a wonderful community to be apart of.

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quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
btw: "Chick-Flick" is just another ignorant guy term. Say a new movie is a love story, like "Serendipity"... oh no... another chick flick. Its not marketed as a chick flick. thats kinda just a slang term that has appeared by beer drinkin, football watching, guys... (I must point, those 2 examples are also stereotypes..)

ignorant guy term? my sisters, mother, girlfriend, and several female friends all use the term (like when i ask how some movie was, they tell me it was a chick-flick, and i know not to bother renting it). it is just a fact of life that some movies appeal only to women (not all women, but enough) and guys who are about to get some action because they took their girlfriend with them and are (pretending to be?) sensitive. so, i think it is ignorant to discredit a perfectly valid term just because you don''t like it. what do you call those types of movies?
quote:
Space Quest and Kings Quest were even fun and they were both on the opposite ends of the RPG genre. excellent games though.

they''re adventure games, not RPGs... but yes, those were great games (it sucks because i own them all, but on 5-1/4" diskettes so i can''t install them)...
on a separate note, why do people like to throw around the phrase "so-and-so genre of games are DEAD"? i can see if you mean "commercially unviable", but then you should say it that way. not everyone loves quake or the newest RTS... and no matter how excited about it you are, there are still other people out there that would rather play pong or metroid or space quest.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)
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Hehe. Yes, It is so cliche now that it has become a ''valid'' term. Though, the real term would be whatever movie genre it is in. for instance, "Serendipity", a chick flick? no... A Comedy/Love Story.

and why do you know not to rent a film just becuase it is a chick flick? hehe.

anyway, just keeping it real.

you have some valid points. Adventure games rock! I have not played Grim Fandango. but I did play the demo to another LucasArts game.... The Dig... which was truely a fun game. The music, was cool too.
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quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
Hehe. Yes, It is so cliche now that it has become a ''valid'' term. Though, the real term would be whatever movie genre it is in. for instance, "Serendipity", a chick flick? no... A Comedy/Love Story.

"chick-flick-ness" is a quality that defies the bounds of movie genre... not all comedy/love stories are chick flicks, and some other movies (in genres you would not expect to find a chick flick in) are chick flicks (i can''t think of any examples because those that i saw i forgot about quickly)...
quote:
and why do you know not to rent a film just becuase it is a chick flick? hehe.

because i would rather spend those $3 on a pack of cigarettes and smoke them outside in the freezing cold for the two hours
quote:
Adventure games rock! I have not played Grim Fandango. but I did play the demo to another LucasArts game.... The Dig... which was truely a fun game. The music, was cool too.

yah i remember the dig... that was great...


--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)
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Honestly, there are low-tech games that would be very popular among girls - take Harvest Moon, let the animals be bred for color variation like Creatures, cross it with a Ren''ai game, people it with bishounen, give the main character a tamagotchi-like pet, voila, instant marketing success. Make it cheaply, sell it cheaply, market it as simple, fun and encourage girls to compete with each other to see how well they could do in the game. It would be fairly easy to program and runs on even old PCs. Gotta get decent artists though...
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sunandshadow is right...low tech games can really rock...Deer Hunter is a perfect example...it targeted a largely ignored market and succeded very well (no matter what you think of the game...it sold lots of copies)...something like 6 years ago Pokemon first appeared on the gameboy and launched a phenominom...heck, Tetris (so low tech even programing newbies can program a clone of it) was a big hit.

Digitaldirt - again, what age range were the females in your group? What video game playing experience have they had?.....also - I never said my popstar parody RPG was the answer...I only said it may be unusual enough to intrest females...and no matter how cliched you may think it is...when was the last time you saw such a RPG?

Most women I know are between about 22 and 56 years old...Of those interested in playing games...they want something that is easy to learn, can be played in short time frames, simple and direct control systems, and features some aspect that directly relates to them personaly or through personal experiences...aggressive, violent, and verbaly offenssive games are not what they are looking for...but they do want adult content games (if you are over 18 and believe "adult content" must alway include graphic violence, extensive swearing, and nudity...well you are clearly in a state of arrested adulensence)...of the 130 or so 22-56 year old women I know...around 70% of those who would be willing to purchase such a game aimed at females are over 35 (90% of these women have played both Solitare and Myst...with about 40% haveing played the Sims...only about 8% show any intrest at all in Ultima Online))...their biggest beef with games today are that they are clearly aimed at boys and so players are forced to "play like boys" (notice...boys...not men).
Most women I know under about 40 have little intrest in playing games due not just to family constrants on thier time...but also because they use computer all day long at work and have no desire to do so in thier off hours.

but as they say...I can only listen with guy ears....

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From a female’s point of view, a lot of what has been written is very sexist. When I play a game it is not because it has pink, ponies, nurturing characters and babies in it.

It is because something has caught my eye, whither it be graphics, pre/reviews, theme, or story line. To say the girls aren''t able to play games that aren''t specifically created for us as good as males, due to psychological differences perpetuates the myth that girls always crave the sensitive non-violent path of pacifism. I mean yes there are some psychological differences but there is a danger in going into major stereotyping. We like to shoot things too.

One reason I would guess that many females don''t play games, is not because we don''t have interest, time or reflexes (females have just as good reaction time as men, sometimes better ), but more likely that it is not advertised enough to us, or rather improperly advertised. You wouldn''t necessarily need a female character to draw a female audience, but you do need something more then just guns, tanks, and boobs over and over again. Its the initial imagery. Take for instance magazines, or commercials for computer or video games, typically they feature a bimbo on the front with guns, tight outfit ect. That’s if, there is a female figure on the cover at all. Many games with female characters look like the girls are from porno''s, lol. This is bound right off the bat, to alienate at least some of us or bring into mind that computer games are for men''s enjoyment. Just an initial observation
That is not to say we won''t play these games, but maybe more to the point that we bore of seeing the same type of game & image over and over again. Or that a potential player wont give the game a second thought because of first impression. I''ve noticed one game come out, then someone else will create a similar one, and then a third company will make another...the only variation being graphics or slight twists. The thrill of seeing big jugs doesn''t translate to girls like it does to guys.
You wont see adds like that in magazines targeting a girl audience. If you pick up a magazine that’s aimed towards girls, like say for instance your sisters copy of Sassy, you won''t see any adds for games or computer junk inside besides a copy of Cosmopolitan Make Over. That’s it. Now I suspect that if casually Game Advertisements were thrown into these magazines, that were pleasing or at least presented in a less male-esque manner, ie.boobie free or boobie controlled (without changing the game itself, just the presentation or packaging if you prefer) you might see a peek in female interest.

I don''t honestly believe that girls won''t play games which feature a male character, simply because its male, but more likely because of the perception that they won''t have any interest in playing. Or the game is just crap or because they just don’t know about the games existance. Don''t make a game just for girls, or pandering to us, make one that is enjoyable to everyone, like a good movie or book. I''d also bet why girls play solitaire, sims, and puzzles is because they can be drawn into them easier, without being confronted by a dude firing guns at Amazon space chicks in leather thongs, with no plot to back it up.

I used to go over to my cousins house who was practically glued to his Nintendo playing fighting games, and while he''d ask if I wanted to take up the second controller, he''d automatically pick Mario cart racing or something with the least violence for us to play, unless I insisted on trying out something like Mortal Kombat. And I still remember his little cry of surprise when yes, I was in fact able to do a combo. *gasp* My uncle introduced me to adventure games, and since then I''ve gone on to blowing things up gleefully, puzzles, sims, ect. If it weren''t for him, I doubt I would have played anything because I wasn''t aware of games beyond games like FreeCell, and Solitares existence. Because I wasn''t made aware of it.

But I bet the best way to draw a wider audience is to write a solid, imaginative story. If you can do that, with a wide variety of even NCP''s who don''t pandered to over done stereotypes, it''ll get played by both boys and girls.
(and yes I was being sexist myself )
The ideal character would be some sort of genderless creature, but hey as a last resort why not put hello kitty on duke nuke''ems guns and a nice handbag.
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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
From a female’s point of view, a lot of what has been written is very sexist...

...I used to go over to my cousins house who was practically glued to his Nintendo playing fighting games, and while he''d ask if I wanted to take up the second controller, he''d automatically pick Mario cart racing or something with the least violence for us to play, unless I insisted on trying out something like Mortal Kombat. And I still remember his little cry of surprise when yes, I was in fact able to do a combo...

...The ideal character would be some sort of genderless creature, but hey as a last resort why not put hello kitty on duke nuke''ems guns and a nice handbag.


Whoever posted this email me please. I would really appreciated if you can discuss some in-depth design from the female perspective with me; particularly on the 2d fighting related things. I am working on designing the battle interface for a game with a few people on here. But unfortunately they don''t have a clue... *ducks under the incoming fry pan* ...a few clues when it comes to fighting games. ^_^ So email me please.

mooglez@hotmail.com
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To all,

Okay, some correction on my part is in order. I made an unwise statement in a previous post that could be read to say that FPSes, fighting games, and platformers are not played by girls because they lack the twitch reflexes necessary to play them. I''ve been called on the carpet numerous times by various posters who noted, correctly, that this is BS. What I should have said, and what someone already said for me, is that these games require not only a good natural reaction time but reaction skills learned by playing the game. Thus, as was noted, these are not games in which a beginner can play well right off the bat, so a person (boy or girl) who has just picked up the game will probably do rather poorly and quit in disgust.

Lord knows there are many, many female people who flat out beat me in every physical and mental contest. At the very least, I wouldn''t consider myself better than anyone based solely on their gender. I''m sorry I sounded like a jerk, and I hope this clarifies things.

On a related note, it seems the basic problem may not be that nobody is making games for girls, but rather that nobody is making games for non-gamers, and most gamers are currently boys. Thus in order to play current games one must have played previous games, and more boys played previous games, so they have a head start in the market now. I''d say one way to bring girls into gaming is to create a whole new genre of game where previous experience with other games helps you not at all, and market it in a non-gender-specific way. Then guys and girls will start out on a level playing field. Just an opinion folks.

---------------------------------------------------
-SpittingTrashcan

You can''t have "civilization" without "civil".
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Hey,why dont you do it yourselves?

(Im a boy as from my name)

Yes, I said it, why the hell do you ask us? I live by the motto, ''If no one else is doing it, but you need it, do it yourselves.'' Therefore, do it yourself, I mean this IS gamedev.net after all!

Yes, it''s true,
there should be
a Java-Python-C++ language called Japyc
or (Jah-PIC)
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A lot of what I''m reading is a misconception or borderline sexist. Women play tons of games, especially MMORPGs. Also, do you think the Sims is selling so well because hardcore game players are buying it? Even in the most hardcore FPSes, you''ll see women players. Creating fluffy pink games is not what women want (as far as I know). It seems like women like games with social aspects and characters they can relate to or get attached to (things that male game players like a lot also.) Don''t think that women are anti-violence, or even necessarily strongly against sex. I know tons of girls that play games, even though they may not be as hardcore as a lot of the male players I know are.
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