Action points or not?

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37 comments, last by Noddy92 5 years, 6 months ago

I would prefer max 10 ap, but i like things to be distinct.

If you have 100 ap, things will cost like 30-40 AP (for an attack) so that could just as well cost 3-4 ap (with max 10 ap). It would mean the same thing but clutter the interface more/force the player to do more math. You only need higher numbers if you plan to use the extra detail level such as having one attack cost 30 ap and another one cost 34 ap (but i would advice aginast that).

The worst application of number inflation is seen in many (often asian) mobile games where you have atrocities like:

"Super awesome fighter stats"
ATT: 3473
DEF: 2194
SPD: 4381

And then you level up and gets +573 to some stat. I mean who needs all those decimals! (compare to level up 5.73). Those games also like to spam those long numbers on the screen like it somehow makes the game look advanced or somehting. Terrible.

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I totally agree with that numbers that go to tens of thousands are ridiculous, but I can see the appeal to do that sort of thing to show how badass the player is. Anyway, the reason I am thinking of implementing the 100 APs, is because I want to have a large variety of weapons, and since weapons have the same caliber, I want to balance it somehow. I don't want to have just one or two pistols, two shotguns, etc. You get the picture.

But thanks for the advice anyway.

Yeah, but then you force the player to figure out whether a weapon that costs 56 AP to fire is better than the weapon that costs 59 AP to fire.  And the thing is, the difference is really negligible at that point.  Unless you get a gun that costs < 50 AP to fire.  Which would then be the better gun, unless its 48 vs 47 again.  It's forcing the player to make a mostly busybody calculation in their head, as the granularity isn't really bringing anything meaningful to the table.

You could try other ways to distinguish weapons than by how much AP it costs to fire them.  Accuracy, ammo capacity, burst fire, damage, jam chance, etc.  Though I think you should revisit your initial premise, why do you want to have a large variety of weapons that are the same caliber?  Why do you want nine pistols that are all 9mm?  

FWIW the "two action" system used in the newer X-COM games had some clunky issues relating to skills/perks that would refund actions or grant bonus actions, because not all actions were "equal".  IE: "Implacable" which granted a free "move" action after getting a kill.  Could you shoot with that action?  Use skill "X"?  What about when combined with "Run and Gun" which allowed using both turns to move and then still shoot, but implemented by granted a 3rd action?  The interaction of these abilities is *really confusing* and causes even players with hundreds/thousands of hours into the game to sometimes second guess how things will actually work.

There's also the weird fact that shooting cost 1 action.  But only if its your second action.  If you don't move, then it cost both.  Weird.

Summary:  The "simpler" 2 action system can be....not.  Depending on implementation.

@ferrousyour right, now that I think about it, I started this project thinking how to simplify an already complex system, but not dumb it down. I didn't think that things like damage, or jam, should affect AP, because I wanted damage to be connected to the ammo being used. But I will try to find some other way to do this. To answer your question about more guns with the same caliber, it's because I wanted it set in the modern world and had something like Jagged Alliance and other games in mind. For example look at this:

https://fadden.com/gaming/ja2/weapons.html#S012

And that's just from vanilla game, and already you can see 9mm, 5,56mm being repeated over and over. In games like XCOM, your standard gun does 5 damage, laser 6 damage, etc. I wanted to avoid this, because I didn't wanted to give the player just two assault rifles, or pistols to chose from.

@CombatWombat I understand your problems with the game, but for the XCOM that they created it works well doesn't it, at least when I played. I guess I'm trying to find the balance between the two.

I don't want to necro, but while working on the project I stumbled upon a problem, that I can't find good enough equation for the AP. This brings me to my next question while looking for other games that used this system, I found several:

Fallout - http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Points

Jagged Alliance 1 and 2 - For 2 http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&amp;goto=255990&amp; For the JA1 - https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/565057-jagged-alliance/faqs/2091 just search for "action points"

Divinity  Original Sin - http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=512981

My problem is that looking at Fallout's system it seems to short, and JA's seems to complex, and also someone pointed out that equation doesn't match.

If anybody has any solution, please tell me how I can fix this. Thank you

I think most points has already been made. You might need to just test it for yourself, and change it if you dont like how it feels. But again, having a super high number of AP (or a high number of ammo types for that matter) doesnt mean that the game becomes more skill-based or there is more choice for the player. There is often less.

Thanks for the reply and the advice. I think I will stick to what is best for the player.

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