11 hours ago, SillyCow said:

On the other hand you have Rey, where there are all kinds of "clues" about her parents. And then... Nothing.Ok, was it some Sith conspiarcy that Snoke set up to trick the general population? No, it's just the writing equivalent of a jump-scare: "Haha, made you look!" . That's just lazy writing.

I don't see it as a jump scare. It's just not what anyone expected. I'd also argue that it does fit: in the context of the film, we see Rey screaming for her parents to come back while being held by the junk dealer dude. 

11 hours ago, SillyCow said:

And then look at Vice Admiral Holdo (Admiral "blue hair"). I really enjoyed this character in the beginning. Her plot line was surprising. It was supposed to aggravate you, and it did. She was supposed to ridicule 80s action heros. She was supposed to ridicule you (the viewer) for watching a formulated action film in 2017. She was supposed to make you feel small and insignificant, and make you question the very essence of the movies, and she did just that. I was like: Wow, this is refreshing, I can't wait to see what she does: Will she operate a network of spies on the enemy ship? Will she and Princess Leah invoke an Amazonian sisterhood with Captain Phasma? Will she turn out to be a Sith traitor? Maybe she has a secret weapon only she and Leah are aware of (that had to be hidden away) ? Maybe she is secretly another Jedi! The possibilities are endless. I'm on the edge of my seat, this is great!

And then once all is established, and she is given control of the plot, what does she do? The same cowboy heroics that every other 80's action hero does. She made the exact same decision Poe would have taken had she not imprisoned him. This was also lazy writing to me... You subvert expectations regarding to classic Star Wars character building, and then... Nothing.

I disagree on this point as well actually. I saw her entire plot point as another sort of meta-failure (part of the theme of the movie). She essentially failed to effectively manage the ship to ensure the planned getaway. That was my interpretation. 

11 hours ago, SillyCow said:

And that's the difference between the writing in these movies and the writing in the old movies: Things happen without a reason. Characters say stuff without a reason. Even some character's personality can change without a reason. Techonology changes without a reason (Starships crashing into eachotther, space bombers, etc...) .

And this is my own difference in opinion again: I don't regard the writing of the old trilogy to be that great. It worked for its time, but really there's a ton of stuff that makes little sense in those movies as well. 

1 hour ago, Promit said:

Looks like the Solo under-performance is having some real fallout:

Quote

Exclusive: Plans for future 'A Star Wars Story' films—including the Obi-Wan movie—have been put on hold. http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

IMO this is probably the correct outcome (and I didn't realize they were actually planning to make all these extra movies). All of them feel every bit as cynical and cash-grabby as Solo, created not so much to add anything material as to just drag more audience dollars into the theater on name recognition alone.

More than anything else I'm not sure why they made a movie on Han Solo of all people. Rogue One was interesting in that it explained a pretty critical point to Episode 4: why in hell's name would anyone build a massive, expensive planet killing weapon that has such a critical weakness in it? Where did the plans come from? That made the movie a good mix of nostalgia with some really interesting new takes. It was far darker than other SW movies typically are. Rogue One is still my top favorite new Star Wars movie at the moment.

1 hour ago, Oberon_Command said:

11 hours ago, Gnollrunner said:

Seriously.......He can stop a blaster bolt in mid air yet he can't even properly dispatch Finn. That fight should have lasted less than a second. I guess different people have a  different level of tolerance for these things.  I know it's just a movie but it should make a bit of sense.

It probably would have gone much faster if not for the fact that, in a preceding scene, Kylo Ren hadn't taken a blaster bolt in the abdomen. Given that the same weapon that hit him was previously shown to one-shot stormtroopers in armor, I think it's frankly astounding that Kylo Ren could stand, never mind fight with a lightsaber.

A lot of people on the internet seem to have forgotten that he was fighting with a gut wound. I'm not entirely sure why.

8 hours ago, SillyCow said:

Ren: Snoke humilated him in front of a girl (who is not Ren's sister/daughter or even "your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate" .) Is this the first time Snoke publicly manipulated/disrespected Ren? What's special now?

Sometimes a small thing is all it takes to push someone over the edge.

Exactly this. As I repeated before, Ren was really badly wounded by the time he fought Finn and Rey. It's not that odd that he lost to Rey and barely beat Finn. That wound was pretty bad. 

Why did Ren turn on Snoke? I'd also add that we've already seen it established that Ren wants power more than anything else. He killed his own father in the last movie. Doesn't that tell you he's a mentally unstable dude? We also keep seeing how he's obsessed with Vader and how he wants to 'finish what he started'. Clearly he's aiming to be even bigger than Darth Vader ever was. It's clear that he's got some pretty twisted aims and it makes sense that in order to be bigger then Vader he'd need to kill his master and become the Master, so to speak.

It builds his character as an irredeemable character and sets up for a good Episode 9. My opinion at least.

54 minutes ago, Anri said:

I've got to say that I'm sick and tired of those who have declared a Jihad on The Last Jedi and its cast and crew.  I was disappointed by The Force Awakens( my worst fears were confirmed ) but I didn't start sending hate mail to LucasFilm nor putting down others who thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.  Why, I've not seen such rampant fanboy terrorism since the announcement of Metroid Federation Force...

This was infuriating actually and I absolutely agree with you here man. It was really sad to see that crusade against the crew. Makes me feel really sad about the state of humanity these days. Sigh, but we're getting off topic.

2 hours ago, Anri said:

I've got to say that I'm sick and tired of those who have declared a Jihad on The Last Jedi and its cast and crew

I agree. It's only a piece of pop culture. A great one, but still only pop culture. Also I was quite appalled by the amount of misogynie  I found in reviews of people who didn't like the movies. Almost made me wish I liked the movies just not to be on the same side with those sorts of people.

But I guess it's the same people that bring sleeping bags to wait in line for the premiere. It's a mass market pop product. There is no reason to be so emotionally invested. 

22 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

I wouldn't call a blaster wound to the gut "slightly wounded."

22 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

1 hour ago, Gnollrunner said:

It also brings up the point of why he was even able to get shot in the first place with his force powers.

He had literally just killed his own father. Literally seconds prior to that. Seems like he may have been a little distracted and perhaps emotionally compromised.

Exactly this. I'm not quite sure I get this complaint either. It's not that much of a stretch to imagine that he wouldn't have sensed a blaster bolt coming his way.

22 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

Furthermore, how do you know Finn was untrained?  Remember, Finn was a soldier.  He may not be experienced with a lightsaber, he may not be a force-sensitive, but calling him "untrained" is a huge stretch. I mean, our modern day armies train in hand-to-hand combat even though most of the time they'll be armed. In fact, earlier in the film, we saw him fighting in melee combat with another stormtrooper. It seemed obvious to me that both of them had melee weapons training of some kind, even if it wasn't lightsabers.

Ok, though I generally think we are on the same page, I will say that I somewhat disagree here. Stormtroopers, at least in the Original Trilogy, were famously incompetent. Now maybe things have changed, and sure, there is definitely some sort of training and we see evidence of it, Stormtroopers were pretty incompetent

22 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

For that matter, since some people have complained about Rey being able to fight Ren at all, it seems really obvious from her fight scene on Jakku that she had some kind of melee weapons training, too.

I don't know if I mentioned this or not, but this is also spot on. Rey does show some clear evidence of prior training with a weapon that isn't that different from a lightsaber.

22 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

Now, I have my problems with TFA, but everything you're saying is easily explained by paying attention and connecting stuff happening in some scenes with what happened in the scenes preceding them. There are better things in that movie to complain about than the fact that it doesn't spoon-feed literally everything so you can switch your brain off entirely and still "get it."

Out of curiosity what were your complaints? TFA for me is below TLJ, and that's primarily because of how little it does differently, and especially in the case of something that essentially amounts to a third Death Star. I still liked it, but those were my issues at least.

1 hour ago, Gnollrunner said:

To me the excuses made for the massive inconsistency in the film are a lot of hand-waving.

Well leaving aside the explanations and points already made, examine the prequel and original trilogy. Let's start first with the original trilogy. There's some serious inconsistencies there as well. We have Luke starting off essentially as a farm boy that at the end of the film, is capable of, without any training at all, fly a combat star-fighter? This is just one, and it's not exactly me saying that the original sucked, but if we sit here, I'll bet I could find a ton. My only point is that the new movies are no worse than the originals.

Then the prequels. Ughhhh. What was the trade dispute and why the hell did they invade an entire planet over it? What justification could possibly work there? Why do the Jedi have no idea that a Sith has infiltrated so far into the galactic political structure? Why in hell's name does Padme still love someone who is essentially a mass-murderer and admits to doing so??? I can go on and on, but the prequels are the worst offenders of this.

5 minutes ago, Gnollrunner said:

Again if he's moving normally doing melee combat in my book he isn't seriously wounded. This is what I mean by hand-waveing. And so is the following:

The actual footage:

Looks plenty wounded to me with that repeated thumping of his armor.

Check this out here:

Check that impact out. Looks brutal.

I agree with @Oberon_Command that this isn't stretching believability that much. He's pretty damned wounded, it's been fairly clearly established.

I get it, it's your opinion and my opinion at the end of the day, fair enough. But is this really not 'wounded' enough for you? The movie does clearly establish he's wounded in these two scenes.

This comes off a bit as nit-picking now to me.

5 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

I know stormtrooper miss rates in the movies are legendary, but that stretches believability for me. What are stormtroopers trained in if not blasters or melee weapons? Again, these are soldiers.

It's also worth noting that these aren't Imperial stormtroopers and that Imperial troopers were supposed to be really good shots. Just apparently not so much against people with plot armor - they seem to do alright against people who aren't the main characters.

Ohhh now we're getting into lore. My guess is that they were bad shots, but meant to kill with massed fire and numbers, something like the Imperial Guard of the 40k universe.

6 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

What about the scene earlier in the very same movie that showed Finn fighting hand-to-hand with another stormtrooper, who clearly had his own melee weapon that he was trained in?

This is a fair point also though. That and let's remember that Finn doesn't win either. He scores a hit against a wounded Ren.