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CocoaColetto

Do game demos usually cost a lot to build?

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5 minutes ago, CrazyCdn said:

A prototype is typically a playable version of the game with very poor or programmer like art.

A demo is typically a playable but very small part of the finished or nearly finished game.

An alpha release is a slightly more polished prototype typically.  Usually used for bug hunting, balance issues, etc.

A beta release is typically a rather polished, nearly finished (sometimes limited in scope as not to give away the whole game) much like the alpha but with hopefully fewer crash bugs or balance issues.

Released game.

You can make the prototype a demo also.

Typically if you're seeking money, you'll need to be an established developer to have much of a chance to be honest though.  Even then they're often not successful.  Just trying to make sure you have realistic expectations.  Though I hope at the same time you're the exception to the general rule.

Thank you for this. I built a detailed prototype on 3ds max and maya (lots of content, LOTS of custom UV's) and took so many pictures from so many angles. It's just not playable because of what it was built on but when it's time to develop.... the artist and programmer will have a very nice foundation to build on because of the prototype that I built if that makes sense! I figure if I put even more work into the prototype and truly make the pictures splash and pop and grab attention, as well as deliver everything I wrote about the game (that can be implemented into the game) in a very intriguing manner I'd have a good chance on kickstarter. I appreciate your interest and your input, whether good or bad, I truly do. Thank you! 

6 minutes ago, Bradley Latreille said:

I agree with crazy here while you could consider them close to the same some key factors the demo has that a prototype doesn't is your demo needs to convey the games purpose and story as well as adding extra weapons or cooler monster than usually seen in the starting levels of the actual game. This way your demo seems fun, but also shows some of its mechanics later down the line and not just in the first level, massive world games have this easy because they can just release a finished game with limited level/item/quest selection and call it a demo. My experience with demos comes from a lot of my own experiences as I'm no marketing expert but it seems this is what the games are aiming to do when they release a demo, do correct me if I'm wrong but it also seems very logical to do it this way in a sense. 

Agreed, but see building all of that takes a programmer and designer and basically money I no longer have. As I spent my savings forming the company. So Im looking for the best route for a chance on kickstarter basically. I truly believe there's a chance, but I just don't have the financials. 

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11 minutes ago, CocoaColetto said:

Thank you for this. I built a detailed prototype on 3ds max and maya (lots of content, LOTS of custom UV's) and took so many pictures from so many angles. It's just not playable because of what it was built on but when it's time to develop.... the artist and programmer will have a very nice foundation to build on because of the prototype that I built if that makes sense! I figure if I put even more work into the prototype and truly make the pictures splash and pop and grab attention, as well as deliver everything I wrote about the game (that can be implemented into the game) in a very intriguing manner I'd have a good chance on kickstarter. I appreciate your interest and your input, whether good or bad, I truly do. Thank you! 

Agreed, but see building all of that takes a programmer and designer and basically money I no longer have. As I spent my savings forming the company. So Im looking for the best route for a chance on kickstarter basically. I truly believe there's a chance, but I just don't have the financials. 

Well I am no game developer, but I am a business owner, and I would suggest you take this as a good learning experience for your next vision :) I would suggest ensuring that you start things non-profit (assuming you don't have much money to go into the business) and with as little effort as possible, then you can actually look at what areas of the game require more attention and deserve your money. You need to be careful with your money in game development because it can go down the drain REAL FAST for things you didn't actually need in the future. Use as many free resources as you can and don't think this means your games gonna lack anywhere :) 

 

Today KickStarters require a lot more than they used to simply because back then everyone was funding peoples ideas only to later realize they weren't being refunded or their money could have been put elsewhere, essentially everyone funding your game becomes an investor and you have to essentially treat them this way. In Canada, Ontario specifically, we have Government funded business' if the Government sees that your idea can generate profit and be stable, it's also kind of a way for them to make money off peoples failed ideas (You'll end up paying back interest if you go negative). But I've seen this work very well from my buddies Grass Cutting company to some famous twitch streamers who stream their development. This is just a solution to not having to deal with the back lash of mad "investors". I'm not trying to call you out on anything here but I would suggest reading a lot more about how to succeed with KickStarter and open yourself up to other solutions :) 

Edited by Bradley Latreille

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2 minutes ago, Bradley Latreille said:

Well I am no game developer, but I am a business owner, and I would suggest you take this as a good learning experience for your next vision :) I would suggest ensuring that you start things non-profit (assuming you don't have much money to go into the business) and with as little effort as possible

 

Could you reiterate with the first sentence? My apologies but Im not sure I understand it correctly. As for the rest, its a little to late for that 😂😂😂 I already spent $4K forming the company. So Im not giving up just yet 🤣

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I was just saying that Im not very experienced in game development but from what I understand you have essentially failed yourself by running out of funds before the game was even developed (And great! We fail 10 times before we succeed once and we learn more from our failures). So I'm saying you can take this away as a great learning experience for your next, or still even current project :) 

And I don't think its too late at all :) Take a look at where all of that 4K went and ask yourself if it was worth spending? You'll take away a lot from seeing where you THOUGHT money needed to go and where money ACTUALLY needed to go. You don't need to spend a bunch of money to make games anymore and that's the truth.

Harsh reality is: 

If you wasted 4K getting this business to where it is now, what do you think another 4K from kickstarter is gonna help you do? I say you learn from the mistake and try and struggle through making the game without spending too much more money.

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36 minutes ago, CocoaColetto said:

By prototype, I meant the game's main location was built with maya and 3ds max. It's very full, nice and detailed (lots of custom UV's and more) and I spent a lot of time building it. But because it was built on maya and 3ds max you can't play it. Because of the type of game it is I was able to build a detailed prototype of the main area with maya and 3ds! But the pictures are extremely vibrant and full because of the detail I put into it!

Oh and thank you so very much for replying. I genuinely appreciate your interest and opinions, whether good or bad!

OK so what do you actually need the money for?  Can you program are are you hopping to hire a programmer?  You can get tools like Visual Studio and game engines for free. and there is plenty of other stuff that isn't quite free but is low cost.

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4 minutes ago, Gnollrunner said:

OK so what do you actually need the money for?  Can you program are are you hopping to hire a programmer?  You can get tools like Visual Studio and game engines for free. and there is plenty of other stuff that isn't quite free but is low cost.

Yes I would be very interested in seeing the summary of that 4 grand, for educational purposes of course. 

Edited by Bradley Latreille

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53 minutes ago, CrazyCdn said:

A prototype is typically a playable version of the game with very poor or programmer like art.

A demo is typically a playable but very small part of the finished or nearly finished game.

An alpha release is a slightly more polished prototype typically.  Usually used for bug hunting, balance issues, etc.

A beta release is typically a rather polished, nearly finished

As I read this thread from top to CrazyCdn's quote, I was wondering what Cocoa meant by "prototype" (I assumed it was either a playable paper prototype, or a playable digital demo (not up to the level of "vertical slice"). As GnollRunner said, a lot of us equate "prototype" with "demo" if the terms are not defined when introduced. 

An alpha build is supposed to have all functionality and assets, but probably contains a lot of bugs and imbalances. Maybe the title screen and main up-front menu are placeholders. 

A beta build is "finished but we need outside eyes on it" to identify incompatibilities with untested hardware/OS setups. 

 

30 minutes ago, CocoaColetto said:

Could you reiterate with the first sentence? My apologies but Im not sure I understand it correctly. As for the rest, its a little to late for that 😂😂😂 I already spent $4K forming the company. So Im not giving up just yet 🤣

Well, you may spend some more on it ($4K isn't a lot in game biz terms) - make sure you don't follow the "sunk cost fallacy" (google it) too far. 

As for the initial question about cost, the only possible answer is "it depends." It depends on what kind of game you're making, for what platform, of what genre. It depends on how many people you need to make your demo. Then simply multiply the monthly pay to those people by the number of months it'll take to go through a learning process (assuming non-professionals) and then make the demo. Note that the demo needs to incorporate the core gameplay of your game concept, and to look like what you want the finished game to look like ("vertical slice" - but note that as with "demo" and "prototype," and "alpha" and "beta," there are a lot of interpretations). 

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17 minutes ago, Bradley Latreille said:

I was just saying that Im not very experienced in game development but from what I understand you have essentially failed yourself by running out of funds before the game was even developed (And great! We fail 10 times before we succeed once and we learn more from our failures). So I'm saying you can take this away as a great learning experience for your next, or still even current project :) 

And I don't think its too late at all :) Take a look at where all of that 4K went and ask yourself if it was worth spending? You'll take away a lot from seeing where you THOUGHT money needed to go and where money ACTUALLY needed to go. You don't need to spend a bunch of money to make games anymore and that's the truth.

Harsh reality is: 

If you wasted 4K getting this business to where it is now, what do you think another 4K from kickstarter is gonna help you do? I say you learn from the mistake and try and struggle through making the game without spending too much more money.

LLC Formation $400+, business licenses and permits $400+ (I made a few registration mistakes so add another $300+ fees to fix it with the government), logo $400+ (yes I admit that one could have been cheaper), first logos that were #*@!ed up $145, company name trademark search and filing $600+, purchase of website name and 2 extra extensions for a few years $120+, professional email $70, ok maybe I didnt spend it all on business lol I did spend it on a lot of other shit too but I spent a lot nonetheless! 

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22 minutes ago, Tom Sloper said:

As I read this thread from top to CrazyCdn's quote, I was wondering what Cocoa meant by "prototype" (I assumed it was either a playable paper prototype, or a playable digital demo (not up to the level of "vertical slice"). As GnollRunner said, a lot of us equate "prototype" with "demo" if the terms are not defined when introduced. 

An alpha build is supposed to have all functionality and assets, but probably contains a lot of bugs and imbalances. Maybe the title screen and main up-front menu are placeholders. 

A beta build is "finished but we need outside eyes on it" to identify incompatibilities with untested hardware/OS setups. 

 

Well, you may spend some more on it ($4K isn't a lot in game biz terms) - make sure you don't follow the "sunk cost fallacy" (google it) too far. 

As for the initial question about cost, the only possible answer is "it depends." It depends on what kind of game you're making, for what platform, of what genre. It depends on how many people you need to make your demo. Then simply multiply the monthly pay to those people by the number of months it'll take to go through a learning process (assuming non-professionals) and then make the demo. Note that the demo needs to incorporate the core gameplay of your game concept, and to look like what you want the finished game to look like ("vertical slice" - but note that as with "demo" and "prototype," and "alpha" and "beta," there are a lot of interpretations). 

I assessed the building of the game and because of the type of game it is, it definitely wont be as much as others game's to make a pretty demo, as some of the content doesnt even need to be made I can get it from free3d.com. The prototype I built is very detailed because I put a lot of work into decorating it but I built it in 3ds max and maya so its unplayable. I would just need artists and programmers to make a more polished, playable demo of what I already created basically. But they still need to get paid and I cant afford that right now. So Im basically searching for an alternative way.  

Edited by CocoaColetto

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27 minutes ago, CocoaColetto said:

I assessed the building of the game and because of the type of game it is, it definitely wont be as much as others game's to make a pretty demo, as some of the content doesnt even need to be made I can get it from free3d.com. The prototype I built is very detailed because I put a lot of work into decorating it but I built it in 3ds max and maya so its unplayable. I would just need artists and programmers to make a more polished, playable demo of what I already created basically. But they still need to get paid and I cant afford that right now. So Im basically searching for an alternative way.  

Ok, I just want to clarify some things here.

You keep saying that you have a prototype or demo.  But in reality what you have is a detailed 3D model of your game environment built in Maya.  You also have some kind of design document.  Correct?

You have no experience making games.  

You do not actually, right now, have a working game at all.

You dont have any programmers working on this game.

You have spent $4k on starting a company to make this game.

Are all those things accurate?

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