8 hours ago, Vilem Otte said:

University isn't the only way how to get knowledge

But it only way to get it fast and get a complete set of knowledges and skills required to research/get in any field in wich software have to work, instead of non-linked mosaic of videos from youtube .

7 hours ago, Oberon_Command said:

It takes university (or equivalent studying) and work experience to become a genuinely good developer.

Can make and will make is a litle different claims. Also locally began from 3-rd year its 2 month of "industrial practice" each year where student can take a some expirience on real IT departaments. Anything depends from student's desire to learn.

30 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

and work experience

University able to give both. For example my diploma project has been involved to real scientific researches. Most of diploma projects of my classmates has been put into production in real IT departaments. Ever university web site has been done as one of diploma projects. Some of semester projects has been used as training software in university cources for next years and other faculties. Is it not a real expirience or not a real software products?

36 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

One thing to note is that, at least in North America, universities are research institutions

Locally its a education institutions that train a qualified engineers and scientists. Of cource professors, docents and ever students usualy involved into some kind of researches (of cource engineer can not become to candidate to doctorate that required to be a docent, and then to Doctor that required to become a professor without actual researches), but most of researches done into other kinds of institutions called "scientific research institution"

6 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

on projects of at least 50-100 thousand lines of code

100 thousands lines of C++ code able to summon the Devil  and than make a exorcizm to cast it out. University education intendet to help to sove tasks without involving a misticism.

4 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

Engineering programs might be a bit better at the actual teaching part, but "software engineering" isn't really "engineering" according to the engineering faculties, so stuff that's software-related is usually left to the math or science faculties.

It looks like a language issue. Here Engineer a qualification that require a 5-year of univercity education, so used in much wide sence than in English-spoken countries.

27 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

The faculty of computer science is in itself a scientific research institution

Really development of any software product is kind of scientific research of its field, designing of architecture and implementation by code. And any of its stages can not be avoided. Hardest of its part is research of field, so qualified Engineer-programmer is a good scientist that able to describe task mathematically for first, implement it in shortest possible code for second, and so lazzy so able to build architecture that make illusion that computer invent reuired math themself for main. Of cource faculty that train it kind of specialists have to have a scientists as trainers. For example on our branch of Applicative Math and CS all lecturers and assistants has real expirience of researches into scientific research institutions prior became to university trainers. (I has study in 1995-2000 years, so little early - prior to 1991 - government scientific researches institutions was a only institutions that has developt a complexive software, industrial IT/FA departaments has only provide support and required adoptation of ready software  )

50 minutes ago, Oberon_Command said:

so stuff that's software-related is usually left to the math or science faculties

Nowadays on my university branch of Apllicative Math and CS has been enlarged to IT faculty and branch of High Math that make lectures to any other faculties students shifted to structure of IT faculty. Also here any faculty of technical university usualy have word "Enginering"  or "Technological" into its name. For example Engineering-Economical faculty,  or ever Engineering-Pedagogical faculty.