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What does your ideal 2D engine/framework look like ?

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On 8/7/2019 at 11:23 PM, g_o said:

Because I really want to believe that once permission standards on the browser are established, direct access to hardware would be even more optimized piece of a cake than it is today.

Problem with making games/applications on top of HTML documents
Adding yet another layer of abstraction on top of a text protocol meant for scientific papers (HTML) will soon reach its limit and web binaries will still face the issue of trust from the user. I wouldn't go to a random website and enable JavaScript just to play a game, so trust has to be established using publishers, stores and inspection just like with native binaries. There's also a problem of running plug-ins in the same browser that might later be used to access the bank with them still being active. Netflix support once gave me a download link to SilverLight in the Windows store, which of course contained a key-logger like everything else in there.

Solution
Nobody stops you from making a new browser with open protocols, close to how the dark net was created. This would increase performance, simplify development, allow games to easily be downloaded and played offline from a home catalogue. Pay-to-win and addiction-based games could be marked as dangerous by the pilot reviewing community. The game host can generate 1000000 random-seed check-sums for signing peer-to-peer downloads and updates using 4 random seeds picked after delivery.

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21 hours ago, Dawoodoz said:

Problem with making games/applications on top of HTML documents
Adding yet another layer of abstraction on top of a text protocol meant for scientific papers (HTML) will soon reach its limit and web binaries will still face the issue of trust from the user. I wouldn't go to a random website and enable JavaScript just to play a game, so trust has to be established using publishers, stores and inspection just like with native binaries. There's also a problem of running plug-ins in the same browser that might later be used to access the bank with them still being active. Netflix support once gave me a download link to SilverLight in the Windows store, which of course contained a key-logger like everything else in there.

Solution
Nobody stops you from making a new browser with open protocols, close to how the dark net was created. This would increase performance, simplify development, allow games to easily be downloaded and played offline from a home catalogue. Pay-to-win and addiction-based games could be marked as dangerous by the pilot reviewing community. The game host can generate 1000000 random-seed check-sums for signing peer-to-peer downloads and updates using 4 random seeds picked after delivery.

So you're saying having a better permission management is a good idea or bad idea?

And of course nobody stops anyone but while you're at it make an open source alternative for anything and fix any bug on godot etc, etc. The simple truth is that the most relevant issues are mostly already being addressed. I took a shot at one that isn't. Like them or not but firefox and brave are already trying the card of trust. And peer to peer? already been done (basically torrent based www), I actually predicted the idea about half a year before it emerged, meaning it was in development for quite a while and started way beforehand.

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7 minutes ago, g_o said:

So you're saying having a better permission management is a good idea or bad idea?

A good thing to say the least. The problem is to filter searches for content based on required permissions so that there's an incentive to require less. Practically every news site require highly dangerous permissions for ad-tracking and some block access to plain text if you deny those for safety concerns. In native gaming, we have GOG for those who reject DRM, but I've yet to find a search engine preferring sites with minimal required permissions. If everyone requests everything because it came with the JS framework, a permission system sadly won't work.

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Just now, Dawoodoz said:

A good thing to say the least. The problem is to filter searches for content based on required permissions so that there's an incentive to require less. Practically every news site require highly dangerous permissions for ad-tracking and some block access to plain text if you deny those for safety concerns. In native gaming, we have GOG for those who reject DRM, but I've yet to find a search engine preferring sites with minimal required permissions. If everyone requests everything because it came with the JS framework, a permission system sadly won't work.

What you're saying is silly. Of course no site will be immediately compatible, and some companies will push against it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make our standards higher. This is literally the idea of supply and demand. Sure news site have all the supply but the correlation goes two ways. i.e: in a free market competition will arise such that naturally supply will fit the demands. We'll have to fight for it and for sure it's not gonna be perfect at first but let us evolve into the natural progression, even if it is a battle.

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2 minutes ago, g_o said:

Of course no site will be immediately compatible, and some companies will push against it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make our standards higher.

Around 99% of websites use JavaScript as a substitute for plain HTML and CSS, which I would happily filter away from my search results and forget if I could. No need to change the world, just burry the bad sites where nobody finds them using personal security and privacy filters.

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1 hour ago, Dawoodoz said:

 Around 99% of websites use JavaScript as a substitute for plain HTML and CSS

What on earth are you talking about

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12 hours ago, g_o said:

What on earth are you talking about

This is starting to derail the topic, but try installing NoScript in Firefox and you will see that every privilege that can be granted will be used for highly unethical ad-tracking that does half the job in the next ethnic or political cleansing.

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1 hour ago, Dawoodoz said:

This is starting to derail the topic, but try installing NoScript in Firefox and you will see that every privilege that can be granted will be used for highly unethical ad-tracking that does half the job in the next ethnic or political cleansing.

This is starting to derail the topic but try turning on the computer and you'll see that every privilege that can be granted will be used for highly unethical ad-tracking

Are you ignoring my previous posts on purpose?

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@g_o Sorry mate but @Dawoodoz is right about the security issues. Even if I don't expect every site to be Javascript-free (I use uMatrix by the way) and you need at least a little Javascript for convinience (bootstrap for example), most sites have a ton of Javascript and most of it is used to earn money from their visitors. Everybody can install uMatrix or a pi-hole but it won't make Javascript a better option at all.

The main problem about web is that every browser needs to implement the standards but those standards are defined with a lot of legacy stuff in the background to keep the internet up and running, even for sites that haven't changed since eons.Same is true for Javascript, there are standards and there are standards to define new standards but all have the same history and so legacy problems like security issues. As long as this is going forward, there won't be more hardware access and browser's won't replace binary built applications.

I mean web gaming seems cool because you don't need to install that on your computer but on the other hand, if it gets more complex, then you have to swap to another technology like using Java Applets or even Flash which are both not secure too. And you need some kind of safety as long as there is phishing, scam and hackers out in the world that want to grab your money. Firefox is arming against those with every new update and restricting access to the native functions from scripts more and more, don't you think this won't change in the next 10 years?

An alternative fo your pirpose seems to be straaming. Have the game be played in a Docker Container on a server in the web and your engine just deliver I/O to the end points would seem as a more secure and viable solution than hoping that everything goes well and Javascript will be *the-shit in the future

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On 8/12/2019 at 11:20 AM, Shaarigan said:

@g_o Sorry mate

I really don't wanna comment your idiotic arguments I think quoting this is painful enough.

yeah I'm sorry too that you didn't understand my point

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