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Learn both. They both are equally good. I seriously hope this doesn''t become another flame war. Also, C++ works for the Internet as well; it''s just not as integrated into the language like Java.

P.S. Try your best to never post a vs. b posts, ok.

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I agree with Floppy; a vs b posts suck. However, I am a very big fan of x vs y posts.

Fantastic doctrines (like Christianity or Islam or Marxism or Microsoft-bashing) require unanimity of belief. One dissenter casts doubt on the creed of millions. Thus the fear and hate; thus the torture chamber, the iron stake, the gallows, the labor camp, the psychiatric ward - Edward Abbey

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quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Even better, see that ''search'' icon in the upper-right of your screen? Next to ''login'', under "GDSE"? Click it and see where it takes you.



"True... true." - Budwieser Commercial(s)

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what can''t you do in "c++" that you can do in "java" (not including applets)?

To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.

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VB = garbage. learn COBOL.

To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.

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Just to speed things up here:
quote:
As-yet unposted posts:
"COBOL = refuse. Learn Perl."
"Perl = sewage. Learn Python."
"Python = drainage. Learn Ruby."
"Ruby = obscure. Learn Eiffel."
*ROOFLE*
"Learn Objective C."
"No, learn C#."
"C# sux0rs, java r0x0rs."

Whatever. Learn any language that is suitable for your needs; they fall into definite subcategories of comparable technology.

And learn more than one.

[ GDNet Start Here | GDNet FAQ | MS RTFM | STL | Google ]
Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

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C++ and Java both sucks bigtime. Everyone should use Intercal exclusively.

Fantastic doctrines (like Christianity or Islam or Marxism or Microsoft-bashing) require unanimity of belief. One dissenter casts doubt on the creed of millions. Thus the fear and hate; thus the torture chamber, the iron stake, the gallows, the labor camp, the psychiatric ward - Edward Abbey

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if you want to make a full-blown commercial game, its C/C++ that you should learn, if you want to learn about languages learn both, if you want to learn forced object-orientation (not always a good thing) learn java, generally its a matter of preference, but java is better for applications than 3D games, it just doesn''t have the speed to do the games people want to play.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I would be very critical about Abdulla''s statement about the speed of the various programming languages. He might have been correct 3 years ago, but you will have real trouble finding games today that could not have been written in Java. It should also be noted that the biggest problem for game programmers does not seem to be that their games are not fast enough, but rather that they do not finish them, and Java has been shown to make programmers more productive...

Arild, nice sig but it doesn''t warn people about the most dangerous fanatical belief of them all. Only Microsoft worship is known to cause Ballmer to dance: http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html

Henry

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I would suggest learning both, where to start really depends on how you feel about OOP. If you feel OOP make things easier start in Java. If you feel more comfortable with pure imperative programming start with C++ and then learn about OOP later on.

The whole C++ vs. Java speed thing will probably all be over in a very short time. The modern Java JIT compilers are REALLY fast and garbage collection isnt the problem it used to be(see http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1067.asp), and SUN is adding some of the 2d graphics accelleration we need for games to the core libraries(check the Java 1.4b3 SDK), and hw 3d support is available using Java3D(dont know if its good or not))

High level languages like Java(or something similar, perhaps even simpler) will naturally win out in the end, but i think C++ will hang on for a LONG time, simply because it supports so many programming paradigms and has such a large user base.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Ziphnor
If you feel OOP make things easier start in Java. If you feel more comfortable with pure imperative programming start with C++ and then learn about OOP later on.



I think you mixed up two things. There are two main programming concepts: imperative and functional.
Imperative: C/C++, Java, Pascal, Basic, Fortran....
Functional: ML, SML, LISP and a few other theoretical languages.

Most functional languages also support imperative concepts, but not vice-versa. Functional languages are very abstract languages. They are a few levels higher than Java or C++. They usually don''t bother with memory allocation or any system related stuff.

OOP is just a paradigm, usually only used in imperative languages. The imperative concept may include OOP. C++, Java Pascal... actually realize OOP. Plain C does not.

greets cruz

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jave = slow, useless, bloated, lazy garbage.

To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.

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"OOP is just a paradigm, usually only used in imperative languages. The imperative concept may include OOP. C++, Java Pascal... actually realize OOP. Plain C does not. "

You might be right there, its just i had a uni teacher(who worked with Prolog) who used ''imperative'' in the sense i just used it(or maybe i just minsunderstood him. What would you call an imperative language which doesnt have any support for OOP? There must be a name for the class of languages that contain C++/Java etc but not C/ASM/Basic etc.?
Still i hope my point came across okay:
Like OOP -> Java
Dont understand OOP/dislike OOP -> C++


To Jenova:
"jave = slow, useless, bloated, lazy garbage. "
I hope that was a joke, or else you really should read that article i referenced above. Some parts of Java ARE bloated and poorly programmed(ie Swing GUI system is slow as hell), but that doesnt mean the lanuage in itself is.

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quote:
Original post by Ziphnor
What would you call an imperative language which doesnt have any support for OOP? There must be a name for the class of languages that contain C++/Java etc but not C/ASM/Basic etc.?
Still i hope my point came across okay:
Like OOP -> Java
Dont understand OOP/dislike OOP -> C++ ´



All these languages (Java, C++, C, Fortran) are imperative languages. The term "imperative" has nothing to do with whether they support OOP or not. Languages that support OOP are object orientated languages (C++, Java, Delphi...), languages that don''t support it are just called "procedural" languages like C or Fortran. VB is something in between as it still doesn''t fully support OOP.
Some information on functional programming languages (SML):
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/stg/NOTES/node3.html

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quote:

Ziphnor
What would you call an imperative language which doesnt have any support for OOP?


Crap? (As mentioned above, they're called Procedural, and are gear towards Modular programing.)


AP
C++, Java Pascal... actually realize OOP. Plain C does not.
UnshavenBastard
Its language is pascal with oop stuff added.

Pascal is a procedural language - the language of Delphi is called Object Pascal (which is a very good modular language, but is a deficent OO language, a-mon-avis - not nearly as bad as VB6 though).



Like OOP, Don't know how to implement it effectively -> Java
grok OOP -> C++


quote:

Why is one better than the other. I dont understand.


This is becasue the question is not Why one is better than the other, but Where and When.
e.g. Java is better ten years from now due to optimizing JIT compilers and MDMI-SMP computers. Or Java is better when you don't understand pointers. Java is better when your writing buggy memory-leaking code. Java is better when you don't understand multiple-inheritence. Java is better when you don't know how to use C++ templates. C++ is better when you only want to support one platform (or similar platforms, like 9x/NT, BSD/Linux, etc...).

People often say that Java is more portable, and to some extent it is. It depends on your criteria for portability. If you just want it to run everywhere, Java fits perfect. If you want it to run *well* everywhere, you have *alot* of work ahead of you and Java isn't going to help.


Magmai Kai Holmlor

"Oh, like you've never written buggy code" - Lee

"What I see is a system that _could do anything - but currently does nothing !" - Anonymous CEO

Edited by - Magmai Kai Holmlor on December 13, 2001 12:37:45 PM

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Ziphnor: yeah, i was j/k. but seriously, a good programmer can be just as effective with c++. stuff like garbage collection is really unneccessary and leads to lazy programmers. how hard is it to code a destructor that cleans up after itself.

To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.

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it really depends on what you want to do. Each language has it''s benfits and flaws. They are very different and server different purposes. That is why all these lanaguages exists. Better yet learn about the concepts of programming and software development in general and then you it would just be a mater of looking up how to express your concepts and ideas in a language. It also depends on what paradim you are look to work in; for example functional, object-oriented.etc......If you want to learn functional programming don''t expect to try and learn it in Smalltalk, Java or Prolog. Again it all depends on what you want to learn and what you want to do.

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