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bishop_pass

I Challenge You Too!

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bishop_pass    109
Go on a day trip with me and come back a changed person with new insights which will fire your imagination, lead you on a new road to self discovery, and expand your mind into a zone of higher awareness. I cannot help that you will come back an ambulatory zombie and spend a day recovering though. In the end your writing will improve.

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Drizzt DoUrden    100
Sounds interesting. I don't understand though, are you going to be Ganduluf, the all knowing wizard, and drag Bilbo Baggins, the formal, un-knowing hobbit on an adventure that will make his writing better?


Edited by - Drizzt DoUrden on December 14, 2001 6:14:17 PM

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Moe    1256
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
Go on a day trip with me and come back a changed person with new insights which will fire your imagination, lead you on a new road to self discovery, and expand your mind into a zone of higher awareness.

I cannot help that you will come back an ambulatory zombie and spend a day recovering though.

In the end your writing will improve.

So... you are going to watch Lord of the Rings too?



Moe''s site

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
Sounds interesting.


Of course it sounds interesting! Just imagine, the wisdom of bishop_pass guiding you on adventure...

quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
I don''t understand though, are you going to be Ganduluf, the all knowing wizard, and drag Bilbo Baggins, the formal, un-knowing hobbit on an adventure that will make his writing better?


Metaphorically, yes.

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by Moe
So... you are going to watch Lord of the Rings too?


Ummm... No. But, many of my suggested destinations are evocative of the imagery and power conjured by the texts. Not merely evocative, but downright overpowering, elusive, challenging, fantastical...

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
Ummm... No. But, many of my suggested destinations are evocative of the imagery and power conjured by the texts. Not merely evocative, but downright overpowering, elusive, challenging, fantastical...

eh, i''d rather go see the movie when it comes out...

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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Ratman    181
>> Go on a day trip with me and come back a changed person with new insights which will fire your imagination, lead you on a new road to self discovery, and expand your mind into a zone of higher awareness.

This sounds like taking a hallucinogenic drug.

---------------
Ratfest.org

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Inmate2993    222
Actually, a field trip is a good idea. It gets you away from classroom walls / office cubicals. For example, during the development of MetalGearSolid2, Hideo Kojima scheduled a trip to a nuclear power plant, so as to give the designer a feel for how that stuff works in the real world. Ignore the fact that nobody actually went, but its a nice idea to go and learn about what you''ll some day be writing about, for any genre or medium.

:: Inmate2993
:: William C. Bubel
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by krez
eh, i''d rather go see the movie when it comes out...


In response to krez:
Pity... A two hour movie might provide two hours of enjoyment and some good conversation and maybe a little inspiration. A twenty hour trip with bishop_pass is a journey of self discovery and adventure providing memories which will shine like a beacon amongst the ordinary for the rest of your life...

quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
Forget the movie! If you go with bishop_pass, you will live the movie. Why would you need to see it?


Drizzt is a little more in tune with the potentials...

quote:
Original post by Ratman
This sounds like taking a hallucinogenic drug.


Hallucinogenic drugs are infusions into your body. Adventures are infusions of your body and mind into the unknown...

quote:
Original post by Inmate2993
Actually, a field trip is a good idea. It gets you away from classroom walls / office cubicals. For example, during the development of MetalGearSolid2, Hideo Kojima scheduled a trip to a nuclear power plant, so as to give the designer a feel for how that stuff works in the real world. Ignore the fact that nobody actually went, but its a nice idea to go and learn about what you''ll some day be writing about, for any genre or medium


Exactly right. Experience is the real thing. And stepping out to the limits is where you really discover how things play out.

I promise that my field trips are a little less academic and a lot more evocative of a serious displacement in time or space.

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
In response to krez:
Pity... A two hour movie might provide two hours of enjoyment and some good conversation and maybe a little inspiration. A twenty hour trip with bishop_pass is a journey of self discovery and adventure providing memories which will shine like a beacon amongst the ordinary for the rest of your life...

i can barely stand reading your pompous garbage on gamedev.net! how could a twenty hour trip with someone who refers to himself in the third person possibly be better than a complete bastardization of one of the best books ever written?
quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
Forget the movie! If you go with bishop_pass, you will live the movie.

heh heh sure...
quote:
Drizzt is a little more in tune with the potentials...

so were those guys who followed the prophet to argentina, just to drink poisoned cool-aid...
quote:
Hallucinogenic drugs are infusions into your body. Adventures are infusions of your body and mind into the unknown...

you''ve apparently never got the good stuff...
quote:
Experience is the real thing. And stepping out to the limits is where you really discover how things play out.

see, now that is exactly the problem with you. i suppose it is completely possible that you have some talent at stepping "out of the limits", and even bringing others with you, but to me it just sounds like you are talking smack (albeit in a fairly poetical [vague] way). really, where could you possibly take someone that would make them "come back a changed person with new insights which will fire [thier] imagination, lead [them] on a new road to self discovery, and expand [their] mind into a zone of higher awareness"? the only place i can think of is your delusional fantasy world where it is more important to impress with your words than actually mean anything by them.
quote:
I promise that my field trips are a little less academic and a lot more evocative of a serious displacement in time or space.

i suspect this is only because there is nothing academic involved with making things up.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by krez
i can barely stand reading your pompous garbage on gamedev.net! how could a twenty hour trip with someone who refers to himself in the third person possibly be better than a complete bastardization of one of the best books ever written?


Go easy there tiger. We're all just having a little fun. I suspect you are in serious need of one of my excursions. More would happen to you in a day than any two hour movie ever could. I have a license to pontificate. Hopefully someday you will too.

quote:
Original post by krez
see, now that is exactly the problem with you. i suppose it is completely possible that you have some talent at stepping "out of the limits"...


Metaphors. Opportunities abound to leave the everyday world behind. You are in SERIOUS need of one of my excursions.

quote:
Original post by krez
.. really, where could you possibly take someone that would make them "come back a changed person with new insights which will fire [thier] imagination, lead [them] on a new road to self discovery, and expand [their] mind into a zone of higher awareness"?


Let's see... Participation in character building activities combined with the exploration of extraordinary places (of which I know many) which transcend time and awe the imagination do indeed heighten your senses, captivate the mind, inspire one to experience more and explore new possibilities in one's life...

quote:
Original post by krez
the only place i can think of is your delusional fantasy world


Why can't you visualize the opportunities out there?

quote:
Original post by krez
where it is more important to impress with your words than actually mean anything by them.


I'm not trying to impress with my words. I do mean everything with my words though.

quote:
Original post by krez
i suspect this is only because there is nothing academic involved with making things up.


I'm making this up? That is news to me.

It's not ME that makes the excursion have the qualities it does. It is the act of doing it.

Edited by - bishop_pass on December 15, 2001 12:43:17 AM

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Jonathon    122
There is nothing quite as wonderful as a good adventure. Everyone deserves to take the opportunity, now and then, to explore the world and his own place in it.

There is so much magic around us. Look at a tree. Visit the ocean by yourself, standing silently. What do you hear? Go screaming through the night with your crazy friend in search of homeless Elijah to hear his stories.

As children, everything is so fresh and new. Every day is an adventure. But what happens? People grow up. Good! But they grow old as well. They forget how to follow a treasure map. They don''t look up into the trees so often, and rarely climb them.

It is only natural that the practical necessities of modern life cause people to become creatures of habit. Certain routines are inevitable. But what a shame to lose one''s childhood completely!

Take a trip with bishop_pass, even if only in spirit. You need no guru (though it can be nice to have a lively friend accompany you.) But, like dragons, adventures have become somewhat rare these days. You owe it to yourself to find one, and to treasure it.


Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

"When a nation is filled with strife, then do patriots flourish." - Lao Tzu


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kseh    3840
No, a day trip with bishop_pass would be a bad idea. Judging by his posts, he is obviously evil because he makes you think and challenge your perceptions in such a way that you might learn something about yourself and others.

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by Jonathon
There is nothing quite as wonderful as a good adventure. Everyone deserves to take the opportunity, now and then, to explore the world and his own place in it.

There is so much magic around us. Look at a tree. Visit the ocean by yourself, standing silently. What do you hear? Go screaming through the night with your crazy friend in search of homeless Elijah to hear his stories.

As children, everything is so fresh and new. Every day is an adventure. But what happens? People grow up. Good! But they grow old as well. They forget how to follow a treasure map. They don''t look up into the trees so often, and rarely climb them.

It is only natural that the practical necessities of modern life cause people to become creatures of habit. Certain routines are inevitable. But what a shame to lose one''s childhood completely!

Take a trip with bishop_pass, even if only in spirit. You need no guru (though it can be nice to have a lively friend accompany you.) But, like dragons, adventures have become somewhat rare these days. You owe it to yourself to find one, and to treasure it.


Jonathon ever so eloquently echos my thoughts. His post reminds me of one of my favorites, which is actually a conjunction of two writers, both adventurers. Galen Rowell writes:

One of the shocking realizations of adult life is that most of us are not fulfilling the most closely held dreams of our youth. Instead of pursuing the dreams that were once integral parts of our personalities, we end up in one way or another fulfilling someone else''s ideas about who and what we should be, usually at the expense of our creative urges. The universal yearning to be creative is eloquently expressed in these words by Antoine de Saint-Exupery from Wind, Sand and Stars: "Nobody grasped you by the shoulder while there was still time. Now the clay of which you were shaped has dried and hardened, and naught in you will ever awaken the sleeping musician, the poet, the astronomer that possibly inhabited you from the beginning."

I have long been inspired by Galen Rowell''s work and stories. I had the opportunity to spend a morning climbing with one of his mentors, the one which introduced Rowell to climbing 45 years ago.

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
Go easy there tiger. We''re all just having a little fun. I suspect you are in serious need of one of my excursions. More would happen to you in a day than any two hour movie ever could. I have a license to pontificate. Hopefully someday you will too.

ok, ok... ima sorry if i came across as being rude... i tend to get carried away sometimes... but regardless, i am perfectly capable of taking my own excursions! nobody has a license to pontificate as far as i am concerned; you remind me of a [lousy] english teacher i had in high school, who was more interested in impressing with his language than teaching anything useful (or even making sense). it is fun to speak in such a way sometimes, but when you do it too often (or all of the time) it loses it''s charm.
quote:
Metaphors. Opportunities abound to leave the everyday world behind. You are in SERIOUS need of one of my excursions.

oh, i understand metaphors... but you take it too far (into the realm of give-me-a-break-already)...
quote:
Let''s see... Participation in character building activities combined with the exploration of extraordinary places (of which I know many) which transcend time and awe the imagination do indeed heighten your senses, captivate the mind, inspire one to experience more and explore new possibilities in one''s life...

while spending time with you, even in the most beautiful of all places, would definitely build my character, i''d rather not deal with the pain. there are some nice spots here in new jersey, although i must admit that none of them transcend time or any of that...
quote:
Why can''t you visualize the opportunities out there?

i still don''t understand what opportunities you are talking about?! as far as i can tell, you are bragging about your ability to find a pleasant spot and ramble about how much you like metaphors.
quote:
I''m not trying to impress with my words. I do mean everything with my words though.

quite vague for someone who cares so much about words... maybe it is one of my own personal shortcomings, but i don''t think something should be said dogmatically, and simply accepted because of the quality of the circumlocution involved. i will always feel this way, unless perhaps you fax me a certified copy of this "license to pontificate"?
quote:
I''m making this up? That is news to me.

no, you''re not making anything up. you describe reality as perfectly as is possible. my bad.
quote:
It''s not ME that makes the excursion have the qualities it does. It is the act of doing it.

heh heh you should write a book, "Self-Discovery Excursions for Dummies" for people like me...

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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bishop_pass    109
What is it with the words? Where am I speaking with big impressive words? I may be speaking a little metaphorically, and a little over the top, but I sure as hell am not trying to impress anyone with words here.

I actually get a little bit of a kick out of the ones here who don''t get it. Those are the ones in need of it (a little adventure).

One of the reasons I avoid actually describing the specifics of my proposed excursions is because words do not qualify to relate the experience to those who have not experienced something similar. It''s not about a hike in the woods, or a trip to a national park overlook, or an excursion to climb some piece of crap crag just outside the city.

As for the crack pipe, I need no such artificial drugs to get a high.

krez,
As for my license to pontificate about these things, if you would like to compare notes and experience regarding adventure, I''ll be happy too.

As it turns out, my initial post was a genuine offer to take anyone here along on one of my excursions. Such offers are the result of truly wishing to share awesome experiences with others. I would even suffer krez''s company, as he would most benefit from one of my excursions.

Why even the anonymous poster (the poor soul) accusing me of smoking crack could probably learn a thing or three.

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TechnoHydra    122
No offense bishop_pass but the 3 hours I spent at the theater last night watching Fellowship of the Ring was better then any 20 hour trip you could have offered to us. Kudos to the director of Lord Of The Rings, may his next two be just as enthralling.

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by TechnoHydra
No offense bishop_pass but the 3 hours I spent at the theater last night watching Fellowship of the Ring was better then any 20 hour trip you could have offered to us. Kudos to the director of Lord Of The Rings, may his next two be just as enthralling.


Possibly so, who knows? One thing is certain, the characters in the Lord of the Rings ventured forth into the unknown, sometiemes sublime and sometimes frightening and faced challenges and adversity which tested their character and provided memories which would last them a lifetime. You, as a movie goer, observed a 3 hour compression of this on a 2 dimensional screen.

On the other hand, my 20 hour excursions will have you venturing forth into the unknown, the sometimes sublime and sometimes frightening and will have you face adversity and test your character and provide you with memories which will last you a lifetime.


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krez    443
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
What is it with the words? Where am I speaking with big impressive words? I may be speaking a little metaphorically, and a little over the top, but I sure as hell am not trying to impress anyone with words here.

i never said big words... and i never said they were impressive either... i said... oh, read my previous post properly then come back to this!
quote:
I actually get a little bit of a kick out of the ones here who don't get it. Those are the ones in need of it (a little adventure).

a little smug for someone who can't even explain himself in plain english in the "writing" forum... guess what? if i were the type to confuse illiteracy and metaphore [*ahem*] i could start rambling "a little over the top" and then smile smugly at everyone who wouldn't pretend that i was making sense. but i'm not like that (i prefer making sense at the expense of not sounding psuedointellectual).
quote:
One of the reasons I avoid actually describing the specifics of my proposed excursions is because words do not qualify to relate the experience to those who have not experienced something similar. It's not about a hike in the woods, or a trip to a national park overlook, or an excursion to climb some piece of crap crag just outside the city.

try me (yes, i'm calling you out on this one).
quote:
As for the crack pipe, I need no such artificial drugs to get a high.

hey, crack is natural! it is a form of rock! (sorry couldn't resist)...
quote:
As for my license to pontificate about these things, if you would like to compare notes and experience regarding adventure, I'll be happy too.

Main Entry: 2pon·tif·i·cate
1 a : to officiate as a pontiff b : to celebrate pontifical mass
2 : to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way


well, either you are claiming to be an episcopal bishop, or you are admitting to #2 above. as we all know, dogmatic means "characterized by or given to the use of dogmatism":

Main Entry: dog·ma·tism
1 : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant
2 : a viewpoint or system of ideas based on insufficiently examined premises


sorry, but maybe you should pick a new "impressive" word to put on your license, unless you really mean that everything you say is based on insufficiently examined premises (and thus worthless), and that you express it in a pompous way.
quote:
As it turns out, my initial post was a genuine offer to take anyone here along on one of my excursions. Such offers are the result of truly wishing to share awesome experiences with others. I would even suffer krez's company, as he would most benefit from one of my excursions.

don't you understand? you have nothing to offer, and i am one of the few people who are willing to tell you that! the rest are just playing your game. how could i possibly benefit from being a captive audience to your "metaphorical pontification", when that is one of my least favorite things to do? and please don't tell me it'll build character...
quote:
Why even the anonymous poster (the poor soul) accusing me of smoking crack could probably learn a thing or three.

unless he already knows how to grow his own dope.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on December 21, 2001 4:42:11 PM

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TechnoHydra    122
Hmm, I think everything we see in the world outside the movies is in 2D. The 3rd (depth) is just a perception which is carried over to "2D" movies. But I admit that excursions out into the real world use more senses (5 to be precise, 6 if you believe in them) then "watching" movie (2, sight and sound).

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bishop_pass    109
quote:
Original post by krez
i never said big words... and i never said they were impressive either... i said... oh, read my previous post properly then come back to this!


Hmmm, you explicitly said I reminded you of someone who liked to impress with his use of language. Now you are saying something else entirely, yet being vague about it.

quote:
Original post by krez
a little smug for someone who can't even explain himself in plain english in the "writing" forum... guess what? if i were the type to confuse illiteracy and metaphore [*ahem*] i could start rambling "a little over the top" and then smile smugly at everyone who wouldn't pretend that i was making sense. but i'm not like that (i prefer making sense at the expense of not sounding psuedointellectual).


Wow. I'm not trying to sound intellectual. Forgive me if you think I am.

quote:
Original post by krez
try me (yes, i'm calling you out on this one).


Try what? I assume you are actually calling me on the notion that I don't actually have within my capacity the ability to share with others the way to powerful destinations which transcend time, places which humble and sometimes humiliate, places which present fantastical vistas which awe the senses, excursions which test one's resolve and in the end build powerful memories?

Unfortunately krez, you speak as if you do not believe it is possible to gain such an experience on this Earth in this life within the realm of practical reason. This harks back to another thread I created where I psoposed the question of whether certain places have an intrinsic romanticism over an extrinsic romanticism.

Why don't you try a day trip to the moraine in front of Keeler Needle amidst a thunderstorm as you contemplate the 14,000 crest of the Sierra rearing up in front of you like some high mountain palisade blocking entrance to Tolkien's Mordor? How about venturing over the gabled crest of Kearsarge Pass to look down upon the verdant green meadows and scintillating lakes in the paradise like basin below? What about journeying over Lamarck Col into the Evolution Basin or venturing into the Evolution Basin via the Keyhole? How about a trip down Buckskin Gulch? How about walking along a ridge at 14,000 feet looking a thousand feet down a sheer wall at the highest lake in the U.S. on one side and two thousand feet down a sheer wall on the other side to another set of lakes?

The above are places I have ventured to many times or (in a few cases) failed to reach due to circumstances. They always challenge the body, provide a puzzle to the mind in the form of route finding, electrify the senses, awe the imagination, and always exceed one's expectations. They are the preferred venue of many world class adventurers, beckoning to such individuals over and over again even after they have ventured to such remote place like the Himalayas or the poles of the Earth.

To quote Gordon Wiltsie: These are the mountains that kindled a love that has lured me to some of the wildest ranges on Earth. But nearly everytime I have struggled halfway around the globe to the Himalaya, the Alps, the Andes or Antarctica, I've found myself wondering why I hadn't just stayed home.

Here in the spacious wilderness stretching between Mt, Whitney and the Sawtooth Range, lie most of my fondest climbing memories, as well as my closest brushes with elements far more powerful than I. This landscape has humbled me and it has almost killed me. But mostly, it has inspired me to come alive .

Who could not become enraptured after wrapping fingers over the Sierra Crest? Nowhere else will I ever find more joy than watching vast panoramas unfold below my feet on the Swiss Arete, Cathedral Peak or Charlotte Dome. And to every horizon, high above sparkling lakes and iridescent meadows, are endless other granite highways, with cracks and chickenheads leading straight into a sky so clear and blue that the sun is just a pinpoint.

These are mountains we can meet with just a rucksack and a ropemate, but they're also not to be taken lightly, looming with every element of personal challenge we might seek from the sport. I've learned many a frightening lesson from the bergschrund on Palisade Glacier, from runouts on long, blank faces, and from rocks that have teetered and tumbled when I expected them the least. And benevolent as Sierra weather might usually be, I've felt my hair stand on end from lightning, and staggered miles through surprise summer snow. But even the worst, endless bivouacs, when cold and a distant dawn gave rise to my deepest fears, I've never questioned why I climb there.


So krez, as Wiltsie has experienced, so have I gazed upon some of the most soul-stirring panoramas that I have ever seen. I have felt the wrath of a summer thunderstorm which sounded like Armageddon as I ascended to University Col in rain and sleet. I have wrapped my fingers over the crest of a peak to discover grand views opening up and down with dizzying force. I have walked a ridge high above a granite basin of desolation. I have walked in a day from the hot sandy desert floor to the snow drifts of a high mountain pass bathed in a chilling wind. I have been sick, humiliated, scared, and forced to walk out in the dark mustering all the strength I could.

It is here that I walk in the footsteps of the intrepid and visionary, including explorer Clarence King, naturalist and mountaineer John Muir, writer Mary Austin, photographer Ansel Adams, mountaineer Norman Clyde, mountaineers John and Ruth Mendenhall, big wall climber Waren Harding, adventurer and climber Royal Robbins, photographer and adventurer Galen Rowell, and the list goes on and on.

The high altitude of the High Sierra brings with it a sky incredibly deep blue and clear. At night, one revels in the blaze of lights stretching across the heavens. It is there that I have witnessed the most meteors streaking across the sky with amazing regularity. It is there that I have seen satellites move across the sky more than any other place. It is there that I found the moonlight to be enough to hike by at midnight because the thin atmosphere doesn't dim the moon's illumination.

Ansel Adams wrote: All the early morning the sky was thronged with cloud and a sharp wind beat upon the crags. Before noon an eager arm of cloud clutched at the sun, and a sigh of shadow came over the mountains. Rippling patterns of wind flashed on turquoise waters-ice fields became cold gray as the moon before dawn. It was good to be buffeted by cool and fragrant air. And one must ever bow before the deep benediction of thunder. We sat for long under a rocky shelter while the storm moved over the pass and roared down canyon to westward. High summits were veiled in massive clouds that swirled and blended above us.


Edited by - bishop_pass on December 21, 2001 9:22:57 PM

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bishop_pass    109
I have sometimes been asked what charm there can be in the higher levels of the Sierra, when the forests are gone and nothing remains that is not dead and forbidding, the bare crags and the snow-fields. To such a question the surest answer would be an evening spent in such a camp as we had that night. Such a scene!-wild, desolate, cold, forbidding, fascinating! White granite for miles, black shadows in the canyons and clefts, glistening snow, and tiny lakes sparkling in the moonlight: jagged, fantastic peaks and pinnacles with alpine intensity of light and shadow, masses of ice and snow clinging to the gentler slopes. And withal the intense quiet and lonliness of the place, a seeming new world on a new planet, where man and and his works are nothing. The thrill of it all comes even now, though months have passed, and will remain through the years to come.

--A quote from Lincoln Hutchinson, 1903, as quoted in The High Sierra, Wilderness of Light.

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