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kevingpo

bullet-time mode

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server variable? Bullet-time is incompatible with multiplayer games...Sure you can slow down your timing loop (exactly how you do this depends upon how your timing loop is implemented in the first place), but that would be really annoying if the whole game slows down for every user because one guy goes into ''bullet-time''.

On a seperate note, I''m sick of Matrix-inspired stuff. Great movie, but I really wish games and other movies would stop ripping it off, its getting very tired.

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kevinpo, dont even try to do this for a multiplayer game, it wont work. by altering the time system to allow a player to get better reaction time then humanly possible (the whole point of slowing time down, besides looking sweet of done correctly) is that all player game must stay in sync. slowing done one player means all players must be slowed down. now this could work well if it was some special item of some such in the level that slowed all the players down except for one giving him super speed (he would stay mocing the normal speed while everyone else gets slowed down, or just a specific person, its been done before though). just make sure that the effect is very temporary (no longer then 10-20 seconds) and can only be done every 2 mins or longer AFTER the effect wears off. otherwise you turn the game boring quickly.

naturally though you may just be doing this for a single player game. if so, you implment it as you said. just take the varible and use that to mulitply by all time related events. for instance if you have

pos += speed*frametime*sv_timescale;

frametime is the interpolation value based on framerate to ensure movement dont speed up by framerate increases (you should have somethgin like this setup already, but maybe in different form). the sv_timescale will drop or increase the movement scale based on time.

a better way in a fixed time step system is to simple modify how long a gametick is, thus easily affecting the whole game without sacrificing accuarcy due to timescale increasing (though unfortunate side effect is that the physics are run more often per second at high timescales (above 1.0)). they will be run less often at low timescales (less 1.0) but interpolation should keep nice smooth look to everything.

again this will only work well in a single player game like max payne (ever wonder why no multiplayer?).


just to let you know, bullet time style effect was in action movies way before matrix was conceived. so max payne did not rip of matrix, in fact many of john woo films or hardcore action flicks have slow motion gun battles in them. also food for though, matrx was definatly not the first film to use the multi camera time altering trick. some commercial in london did it first and was the inspiration for the matrix sequences.

on another note. i am sick of ppl complaing about how the wrong things being ripped off. especially when the thing they complain about is so broad it helps define a genre. naturally these ignorent ppl take an example of the most popular recent thing (ie effect) and assume that just because it was done differently with computers its all of a sudden something toatlly new and never done before (only partially right since matrix did use innovating techniques with the slomo effect when used with action sequences).

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Well, there''s almost nothing that is truly original. Anything in The Matrix or any other movie can be traced back to other, earlier stuff. But you''re deluding yourself if you say that Max Payne wasn''t heavily influenced by The Matrix.

I''ve watched lots of Hong Kong movies, I realize that all the stuff in The Matrix has been seen before: wire-fu, slow-motion, "bullet time" style effects, etc, but The Matrix popularized all this stuff in the US and far too many people, both in the movie and video game biz, have been riding that for a long time and its boring as hell now.

How many action movie trailers in the past 2 years have used Matrix soundtrack music? How many action movies with obvious Matrix-inspired scenes? Hell, Charlies Angels did both, it directly used songs from The Matrix in the movie during the wire-fu scenes at the end...

Max Payne is an ok game all by itself, I have no beef with it. Deus Ex is a great game, despite some obvious Matrix influence in the character design... I don''t fault these games specifically, but taken as a whole there''s just way too much Matrix-isms in video games & movies and I''m tired of it.

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quote:
Original post by gmcbay
Hell, Charlies Angels did both, it directly used songs from The Matrix in the movie during the wire-fu scenes at the end...

Spoof movies don''t count. (Yes, Charlie''s Angels was a spoof movie; it never took itself too seriously and borrowed liberally from other influences. And it was fun.)

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

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I agree that copying can certainly be bad.

However - As for Max Payne it''s unfair to say this. It was the first computer game and not only was it a graphical effect but a pretty important gameplay addition too.

As for the Matrix - When I was watching it I got the feeling I was watching a computer game (in the good sense), and I believe computer games certainly influenced it. So why shouldn''t games be influenced by film.

However I think we all agree blatant copying is crap (Charlie''s Angels).

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Just have to put forward that although people say the matrix is being ripped off, if anyone has seen Masamune Shiro''s classic "The Ghost In The Shell", they would indeed know that the matrix is one of the biggest rip off films of all time Sorry to ruin it''s parade

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thats the problem. An effect is done, and people automatically assume it was done because it was ripped from popular version ppl know. i am not deleuding myself that max payne was not at all inspired by the matrix. you do realize that nearly ALL the songs from the matrix soundtrack existed for a long time before matrix came out. just because you dont listen to techno music and hear it in a movie for the first time, dont mean it dont exist before the movie. also charlie''s angels used different music. last i recall, i did not hear smack my bitch up by prodigy once during matrix or on the sound track.

just because the popular one is doing/did it, dont mean thats why something new is doing/did it as well.

also if you think matrxi/ghost in the shell as a big rip off, try the lion king and kimba the white lion (lion king ripped off kimba big time).

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''a person'':

I was talking about "Leave you Far Behind", not "Smack My Bitch Up".

Also, I realize the music from the Matrix was around before The Matrix. That just makes my point stronger. How, you ask? Before The Matrix, none of that music (with the exception of Dragula, perhaps) was being used to promote movies. After The Matrix, nearly every action movie released had at least one song off the Matrix''s soundtrack in their trailer. All the Spiderman trailers have Matrix music in them and hell, that movie is coming out 3 years after The Matrix! Enough already!

I understand your point, but I still stand behind my argument 100%.

All of this stuff existed before The Matrix, but its the success of that movie that has caused people to overuse every effect/music bit/costume design/whatever that appeared in The Matrix. And even in a bizarro world where The Matrix never existed and the mainstream still became aware of ''bullet-time'', etc, I''d still be sick of it, its overused! Do something else!

And one last point to show how The Matrix really does fit into this, whether you admit it or not... When asking how to do this effect, what did the original poster call it? "Bullet time". Yes, the effect has been around before The Matrix, but they are the ones who started calling it "bullet time". Having everyone call it "bullet time" now just proves that it fell into the mainstream via The Matrix.

If you go back and read my posts you''ll see I was never trying to give The Matrix credit for inventing all of this stuff...I was just trying to discourage people from reusing it over and over (and over and over) just because they saw it done in a cool way in The Matrix.


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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by gmcbay
''a person'':

I was talking about "Leave you Far Behind", not "Smack My Bitch Up".

Also, I realize the music from the Matrix was around before The Matrix. That just makes my point stronger. How, you ask? Before The Matrix, none of that music (with the exception of Dragula, perhaps) was being used to promote movies. After The Matrix, nearly every action movie released had at least one song off the Matrix''s soundtrack in their trailer. All the Spiderman trailers have Matrix music in them and hell, that movie is coming out 3 years after The Matrix! Enough already!




Dragula started in commercials with the matrix. Hollywood generally gets a free license to use music for promotion after it''s been on a soundtrack the first time with the right kind of contract. If a certain studio doesn''t like to pay for new action movie music very often, it gets re-used in trailers for quite a while. This is a cheap-out phenom, not a Matrix clone phenom.

quote:


All of this stuff existed before The Matrix, but its the success of that movie that has caused people to overuse every effect/music bit/costume design/whatever that appeared in The Matrix. And even in a bizarro world where The Matrix never existed and the mainstream still became aware of ''bullet-time'', etc, I''d still be sick of it, its overused! Do something else!




Heh. Watch some middle to late seventies movies, and checkout the extremely frequent and gratuitous use of split screen effects. ''Bullet time'' over-use can''t even compare.

quote:


And one last point to show how The Matrix really does fit into this, whether you admit it or not... When asking how to do this effect, what did the original poster call it? "Bullet time". Yes, the effect has been around before The Matrix, but they are the ones who started calling it "bullet time". Having everyone call it "bullet time" now just proves that it fell into the mainstream via The Matrix.



The many-camera approach to spinning a shot was new to the Matrix, I''m pretty sure. At least, the effect was done in the matrix by the guy who invented it. (That I do know for certain) So he got to name it bullet time if he felt like it.


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"Bullet time" was *not* new to the Matrix. I''m not sure if the ealier comment about it being first in a commercial is true (seems an expensive innovation for a commercial), but I know it was seen in the TV movie Merlin before the Matrix. It was also not done for the Matrix by the guy who invented the technique. Here''s an article that provides some more info about the roots of the effect: http://www.debevec.org/~debevec/Items/SoftImage1999/

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Ok, I half-takeback one of those points. I guess the guy credited with inventing the effect is the head honcho at Manex but he''s not credited with directly doing any of the work on The Matrix. As far as I can tell they had nothing to do with Merlin so I''m trying to find out more about how the effect made its way into that.

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"Bullet time" and what the commercial did are two different effects. The effect in the commercial is when a person jumps in the air and the scene freezes while the camera rotates the view.B Bullet time is not totally frozen, just super slow.

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the concept of the effect is the same, the matrix just uses more advanced technology to get a better end result. the only main difference is that in the matrix they have to deal with high speed cameras and mucho cg effects. on the flip side the london commercial used less cg (if any) but looked more course. the technique after reading that link seems very different due to using cg for the backdrop vs filming everything live.

also on the point of the music. you must realzie it is a cummilation of things that introduced fast paced techno vs using rock in movies. techno and electronic music in general are associated easily with computers and other high tech things. thus it stands to reason why it was chosen for the matrix (and it was cheap since techno is not mainstream pop yet). though by your line of reasoning, i could say that the only reason the matrix used techno music was because hackers did (oops i guess other movies did use techno to promote themselves). you cant say just because the matrix was popular that it is the only reason that movies use techno music.

face it, techno music has become the new "alternetive" style cool music, like alternitve rock was (or maybe still is). since it is associated with hackers in the publics eye (and the internet very much used by ppl). i know its troubling because all the "cool" popular ppl are starting to use some music from the once more underground music scene. heck, are you saying demos (graphics demos, not game demos) use techno because of the matrix? (that was a sarcastic joke since they have been using it since back in the day of amiga and c64).

also one more thing. it sickens me when ppl think that neo came from the matrix (well the ignorent ppl at least think thats where i got the nick from). i use that nick while playing games online, and its beyond annoying (i used it way before the matrix was ever concieved or even before aol was considered evil sine it competed with prodigy and compuserve). for all those ignorent ppl. the dictionary defination of neo:
quote:

Neo- \Ne"o-\ [Gr. ? youthful, new. See New.]
A prefix meaning new, recent, late;




i will no longer debate on this topic however since this is not helping kevingpo.

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quote:
Original post by gmcbay
On a seperate note, I''m sick of Matrix-inspired stuff. Great movie, but I really wish games and other movies would stop ripping it off, its getting very tired.


well the matrix ripped off the bullet time effects from john woo.. hes been using it for years and he''s often referred to as one of the greatest action directors of all time.. the matrix just made it popular...



Get busy livin'' or get busy dyin''... - Shawshank Redemption
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