The need for a more standard language

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53 comments, last by Andrew Nguyen 22 years, 3 months ago
quote:Original post by Arild Fines
"LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE! THE LANGUAGES AS THEY ARE AT THE MOMENT WORK!"

Then how come most games are published late and way over budget?


Huh? How can it be the languages fault companies under-estimate, if the companies take into consideration the language in their estimations? If they are wrong, then it's because they can't estimate very well (which is hard to do). It has nothing to do with the language.

By your logic, if I estimate it will take me 2 years to complete Quake10 using C++, but it takes me 2 1/2 years then the it's the languages fault and it "doesn't work" because I'm over budget and late.

Yet, if I estimated it would take me 10 years to complete Quake10 using language X and it only takes 9 years, then it's under budget and early, thus the language "works"?


- Houdini

Edited by - Houdini on January 3, 2002 2:07:49 PM
- Houdini
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quote:Original post by Houdini
Original post by Arild Fines
"LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE! THE LANGUAGES AS THEY ARE AT THE MOMENT WORK!"

Then how come most games are published late and way over budget?


Huh? How can it be the languages fault companies under-estimate, if the companies take into consideration the language in their estimations? If they are wrong, then it''s because they can''t estimate very well (which is hard to do). It has nothing to do with the language.

By your logic, if I estimate it will take me 2 years to complete Quake10 using C++, but it takes me 2 1/2 years then the it''s the languages fault and it "doesn''t work" because I''m over budget and late.

Yet, if I estimated it would take me 10 years to complete Quake10 using language X and it only takes 9 years, then it''s under budget and early, thus the language "works"?


- Houdini

Edited by - Houdini on January 3, 2002 2:07:49 PM

If you could implement something in a language where the *risk* of something going wrong in terms of coding is smaller, then you can more accurately estimate how long it is going to take to write.
quote:Original post by Houdini
Original post by Arild Fines
"LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE! THE LANGUAGES AS THEY ARE AT THE MOMENT WORK!"

Then how come most games are published late and way over budget?


Huh? How can it be the languages fault companies under-estimate, if the companies take into consideration the language in their estimations? If they are wrong, then it''s because they can''t estimate very well (which is hard to do). It has nothing to do with the language.

By your logic, if I estimate it will take me 2 years to complete Quake10 using C++, but it takes me 2 1/2 years then the it''s the languages fault and it "doesn''t work" because I''m over budget and late.

Yet, if I estimated it would take me 10 years to complete Quake10 using language X and it only takes 9 years, then it''s under budget and early, thus the language "works"?


- Houdini

Edited by - Houdini on January 3, 2002 2:07:49 PM

If you could implement something in a language where the *risk* of something going wrong in terms of coding is smaller, then you can more accurately estimate how long it is going to take to write.
the c++ language is not the problem, it''s how people USE the language that is - class upon class derived from each other with no clear structure, cryptic variable names, pointer management (or lack of), etc.

personally i think that c++ is actually quite an elegent language (not including templates but that''s only because I feel they remove my control over the code a little too much) once you know what you''re doing with it, and you can create consistant, clean and efficient code with ease.

And at the end of the day, any language that allows me to create a functional hierarchy (sp?) of code that looks nice (it always helps it it''s readable) and runs fast, but with 3 words, a { and a } lets me go back into coding pure ASM before resuming the normal c++ code will win me over anyday.

whoever said that c was bad because it was designed by mainly asm programmers needs to be shot (cant be bothered to find you''re name again). pure C is probably the most optimisable (not sure if that''s a word or not) language out there. Why? because you have TOTAL control over the code. nothing is hidden from you like high-level languages. to borrow an old software rendering term, you are essentially "writing straight to metal". No other modern language gives you this kind of functionality, not even Java (that would be "writing straight to the virtual machine" ).

c++ may not be the perfect language, but that''s only if you try and use all of it''s features at once. Only learn the parts that you need, and then use them PROPERLY.

mr. nguyen, i suggest you hit amazon.com and do a search for c/c++ books and learn the language properly before you come here bitching about it. If c/c++ wasn''t any good, i doubt it would be the most used language in games (and just about everything else) today, and most probably will be for the forseable future.


it''s been too long since i''ve had a good rant
quote:Original post by MENTAL
the c++ language is not the problem, it''s how people USE the language that is - class upon class derived from each other with no clear structure, cryptic variable names, pointer management (or lack of), etc.

C++ has been a major language for almost 10 years now - what makes you think people will eventually get it?



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