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yanuart

Realtime Hair in 3D Character

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yanuart    162
Have u seen the hair that Raiden has in Metal Gear Solid 2 ?? It''s not those sharp edges hair that ussualy a 3D characters have, but really cool and smooth hair like when u use Maya to make and render hair (do I make any sense here ??) What kind of technique to implement such a cool features ?? Any information will do.. thx !!! ps : Happy New Year !!!

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Promit    13246
I don;t know how they did it, but let me say this: For computer games, forget it. ALmost no computers have the kind of sheer GPU power it will take to do that. THe PS2 carries an extremely powerful GPU. So unless you are selling to the guys at SGI or something, just don''t bother.

-----------------------------
The sad thing about artificial intelligence is that it lacks artifice and therefore intelligence.

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Moe    1256
I beg to differ.

Check out some of the latest demos by ATi. It is quite possible to do. As far as I know they are using something like a spring model for the hair. Just do a little searching for some tutorials (I know there is one on Gamasutra.com).

The new ATi and nVidia cards are really quite powerfu.

Moe''s site

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Same as grass, just model the base background. Then layer up more upon it, you don''t need each hair drawn individualy, use a texture with many hairs on it.

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a person    118
ps2 is hyped beyond belief.
you do realize the gpu in the ps2 is quite poorly designed and sony fudged the graphic numbers. 66 million polys per second? heh, only if ALL effects and lighting are turned OFF AND you are dealing with similar polygons rotated on the screen. now the reality. ps2 due to crap design of the gpu with only 4MB memory. granted you can stream data over the narrow bus, it eats the performance. this also results in less texture detail as well as other limitations due to bandwidth. no texture decompression hurts as well. all modern video cards on the pc support some form of hardware texture decompression (though not always needed thanks to boatloads of ram on the board).

(800+, geforce3/radeon 8500) is more then enough to handle nearly any ps2 game with higher resolution and better textures. as a side note, the dreamcast is technical superior than ps2. with hardware decompression of textures, twice the vram, and the swooby powervr2 chipset with differed rendering of polys (only chipset that does rendering this way, though it hurts alpha blending performance a bit).

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MENTAL    383
Moe: i think you mean string model, unless you want to use seriously styled hair .

do a search for on gamasutra for an article on spring systems. one of the examples shows you how to do a simple string simulation, and then just add in some basic collision detection with the rest of the body by testing each node of each hair with the main model. (basic point-in-poly)

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aDasTRa    122
cloth models might be more useful than strings. make a couple layers of the hair, each layer like a piece of cloth (kinda). you could get away with one layer, but you would get better results with a couple, with some blending; it''d give the hair a greater appearance of depth, and the animation could be nicer, if not more complex. the nice thing about hair is you wouldn''t need to worry about the layers colliding with one another, or with themselves like other cloth systems.

<(o)>

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
http://research.microsoft.com/~jedl

this site has a fur example and paper by Jed Lengyel. it is for fur, but should be easily altered to work with hair instead. i think the link to the microsoft xbox page with info about it ("fur overview" even has a picture of a guy''s hair done with this method. i honestly haven''t seen mgs2, so I am not entirely certain of the style you are referring to, but this shows the possibilities.

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scaught    122
quote:
Original post by a person
now the reality. ps2 due to crap design of the gpu with only 4MB memory. granted you can stream data over the narrow bus, it eats the performance. this also results in less texture detail as well as other limitations due to bandwidth. no texture decompression hurts as well.


Not to burst your bubble, but:

a) You can DMA a lot of textures across that "narrow bus" with *very little* performance hit at all - with decent dynamic texture management, you can actually get plenty of happy, pretty 32-bit textures across with no compression - and with non-processor-intensive compression, you can get oh so much more.

b) Most games with poor performance are usually core bound, not gpu bound. This results from little vu use or just non-optimized code. (finger of blame? the publishers for rushing products out the door - esp. the first gen stuff).

I actually rather enjoy working on the PS2 - sure it may be overhyped, but tell me that the XBox or GameCube isn''t.

-scott

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utwo007    122
Yeah, well, this really wasn''t a PS2vGCNvXBox debate anyway. I just don''t understand where that level of hype came from -- to make someone on the GameDev.net forums believe that it''s as powerful as any PC in existence.

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Moe    1256
quote:
Original post by MENTAL
Moe: i think you mean string model, unless you want to use seriously styled hair .


You know what I mean. You could use a spring model for the hair if you want the hair to be springy.



Moe''s site

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utwo007    122
And to add to my above post, it''s not as though every developer in the world has the time, money and energy to take complete advantage of the PS2. I think several PS2 developers are putting on a brave face about it because they know that the PS2 is where the money is. You can talk about streaming textures and 48GB/s buses all you want, it still sounds like a crap setup to me. It''s the least powerful console this generation and you have to try way to hard just to take advantage of the limited power it offers.

I mean, you have companies that have spent the first year developing the game, and you have companies (ahem -- Naughty Dog) who spent the first year developing tools to aid in development for their game. Guess who carried the PS2 during it''s first year? It wasn''t Naughty Dog.

And now we have a situation where a company can literally make a living off of selling tools for PS2 development. I don''t mean to get into a huge rant about this, but implying that other developers are lazy simply because they don''t want to tackle that behemoth of a machine when there are simpler options out there.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by a person
the dreamcast is technical superior than ps2. with hardware decompression of textures, twice the vram, and the swooby powervr2 chipset with differed rendering of polys (only chipset that does rendering this way, though it hurts alpha blending performance a bit).



If powervr were that good, we''d all be using Kyro cards instead of ATI''s and nVidias.

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