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Tab

Adult Material and Gaming

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Tab    122
We have enduring series such as Metal Gear, Quake, Mortal Kombat, and Final Fantasy, all growing tremendously in budget and scale with each successive release... But what happened to Leisure Suit Larry? How is the current consensus on games containing adult material? Hollywood can have their high-budget films like Basic Instinct or Eyes Wide Shut and not only get away with -- but succeed -- at marketing medium-core porn to the masses. Can the Interactive Entertainment Industry do this too? If so, how? If not, why?

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Symphonic    313
I speak for myself in saying that I would consider it awful and demeaning to see someone put time and energy into creating interactive porn. It is unnecessary and vulgar depreciation of the fine art that is making computer games.

George D. Filiotis
Are you in support of the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide? You should be!

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Oluseyi    2103
quote:
Original post by Symphonic
I speak for myself in saying that I would consider it awful and demeaning to see someone put time and energy into creating interactive porn. It is unnecessary and vulgar depreciation of the fine art that is making computer games.

Damn Republican ;P (fortunately he speaks for himself)

In any case, it''s just not profitable. You''d find more success doing those interactive DVD porn thingies.

[ GDNet Start Here | GDNet FAQ | MS RTFM | STL | Google ]
Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

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MSW    151
First, the films you mentioned as examples; Basic Instinct and Eyes Wide Shut couldn''t be further appart in thier treatment of ''adult material'' if they tried...

Basic Instict mainly deals with adult male sexual fantasies....while Eyes Wide Shut asks a moral question ("who is being more unfaithful?" the wife who actively fantasizes about sex with other men...or the husband who activeily seeks out sex with other women (but fails))....one film is basicly soft core porn...the other uses sex to make a point....

anyway...

Check out Gamasutra.com ...they ran some articals dealing with sex in games...

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HenryApe    120
>> How is the current consensus on games containing adult material? >>

I think you either need to restrict the discussion to the American market or provide an explicit definition of 'adult material'. The violence in at least some of the games listed in the first post is considered adult material in many countries.

Henry

Edit: Rephrasal, clarification of what to restrict.

Edited by - HenryApe on January 2, 2002 12:45:27 PM

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JOL    160
How about Lara Croft - that is a small step towards applying the same kind of sexappeal that film is exploiting to sell copies.

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by HenryApe
I think you either need to restrict yourself to the American market or provide an explicit definition of ''adult material''.

i dunno, based on some of the anime i''ve seen, i think my new RPG Robot Alien Rape Quest will do better overseas then here in the USA.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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The real question you want to ask yourself is WHY do you want such material in your game?

If it is just for the hell of it (or perhaps to make up for lousy gameplay or story), then I wouldn''t bother. You''ll end up wrestling with censors and publishers for ages, and ultimately you''ll fail, or at least lose a lot of blood over it.

A side note: the Larry series doesn''t actually have explicit visuals at all (if there are then I haven''t found them ;D), it merely deals with a juvenile subject (a loser trying to get lucky in a seedy game world), so there probably wasn''t that much trouble publishing it. It was also done as a joke, it was only meant to be funny.

Listen to MSW. If you want "serious" adult themes, not just lighthearted adulty jokes, you''d better have a good reason for it. Emphasising and enriching story, emotion, and character are all good reasons, and if argued correctly they can probably be justified to most publishers. Appealing to the porn business is not a good reason. (but they''ll probably buy it anyway, so you''ll still corner the market!)


"the difference between art and pornography is lighting"
-I forget who said that, but they were probably important.

Bear in mind, however, that unlike film or TV, there are very few age restrictions or classifications of computer games. Some games are "voluntarily rated", ie the designers themselves suggest a minimum age for playing. A very few actually have BBFC ratings (doom got a 15). But I have never, ever seen even the most reputable of shops enforce these. So just remember, if you put adult material in your games, there is absolutely nothing you can do to restrict or control it.

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micksolo    122
Is it ok to realistically portray violence in games but not sex? Violence is the biggest problem in our world, not sex.

Anger, terror and humour are all human emotions and are prevalent in many of the games we play, but why not sex?! The answer to this is that games are still perceived to be childrens toys and the people in governement and the people that vote them in (Baby Boomers aged 40-50) use games as a scapegoat to blame the worlds problems on. Any time a kid goes ballistic and kills someone ultimately computer games get blamed. What are the chances of getting sex in a game then?

Also to Symphonic...

How can you define the art of making computer games? What right do you have to include computer game violence as art but not sex?

"Make love not war, and the world will be a better place."

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Muzikus    122
Adult material I believe is best kept out of good games if tasteless.
Games like Larry though and things like sleeping with hookers in Gta3 to get more energy and general use of adult themed material can be really good.
Sort of like a wink to the gamer,I want games too be more realistic in a way,with greater emphasis on charecters and interesting content.It''s nice if you can relate to the Charecter and sex and general adult themed material,are common interests.
Plus I think a lot of the game industry is only just starting too understand what women want from games,and more serious content is one.
Porn is stupid you just appeal to the l.C.D namely 13 year olds who can''t get online or buy mags. we''ve all been there.
Light hearted , insightful ,realistic and tasteful (for guys and girls.not too cheesy,not too shallow.) adult content is another matter all together.



"There''s so much too do, and a lot of you are wasting time.
This is ART dagnammit! get creative or get buried."

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Mooglez    122
quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Damn Republican ;P (fortunately he speaks for himself)


Man, I had you pegged as an independent.

quote:
How is the current consensus on games containing adult material? Hollywood can have their high-budget films like Basic Instinct or Eyes Wide Shut and not only get away with -- but succeed -- at marketing medium-core porn to the masses.


Sure... if you can find some big name people like Will Wright to produce the thing. As for the rest of us little shrimps, fat chance.

The keyword is "interactive", not "porn", and not "story". So that also means adding a great awesome linear storyline and dialogs that could rival FF's would actually benefit the game to sell a tiny more only. And that is why Leisure Suit Larry died out.

Funny thing is I can actually name quite a few H-games that are more fun to play than Dai____.

Edited by - mooglez on January 3, 2002 6:03:45 AM

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Apex    122
<< Is it ok to realistically portray violence in games but not sex? Violence is the biggest problem in our world, not sex. >>

I think violence has done a lot of good things for society: World War I, World War II, every Superbowl...

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HenryApe    120
Both violence and sex have affected our societies in dramatic ways. If it wasn''t for porn, the internet would probably still be a small university network in the US

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digitaldirt    122
To the original poster... I think you need to find a girlfriend or someone you can have a "serious adult" relationship/theme with. If your looking for self gratification in games, I think your looking in the wrong place. Go buy a magazine or a video... if it turns you on to watch little cartoony animated figures screw eachother... then I think something went wrong with your childhood...

What would you do if PacMan started screwing Ms.PacMan? I''m sure if would be hilarious for a second, then it would get very old.

I play games to escape reality. To go into a new world. adding sex to games if done in the "porn" sense is tastless. RPG games like Fallout have some elements of sex but they are not tastless. Baldur''s Gate would not work well with that theme.

So I take it you want an updated version of Liesure Suit Larry, with more graphically enabled cut scenes and pornographic audio/music?

Sierra''s intent was never to make a porn game. It was a joke. Hell Space Quest and Kings Quest are much better adventures with a sense of completion.

take it or leave it.

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krez    443
digitaldirt:
the original poster never said he was looking for "porn" or "self-gratification". don''t be so quick to start questioning someone''s "girlfriend-having status" or their childhood or their masturbatory habits based on what other posters said in reply.
just as a pointer, if you scroll down while replying the original post is right below what you are typing; reading this before clicking "reply" might make you look like less of a fool.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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Xanthen    115
No joke, Go buy or rent a porno. If you want to watch polygons screwing, just go make some paper cutouts and animate it yourself.

Who would want a game where you''d only play 5 minutes, wack off and then get bored, or sleepy. heh, sounds like a hard game to finish.

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solinear    145
The real question is what adding adult content to a game would do for the game.

I don''t think that it would do much for the game. Sure, it would add a little realism, but if you think about it, sex isn''t usually that ''out in the open'' in normal society (at least here in the Americas), violence is to some extent.

Movies put it in to deal with complex issues in ways that will garner them the uber bucks. You think that putting a little T&A scene in a game is going to do much for it? Nope, it will probably kill your game if you''re not careful.

Yeah, it wouldn''t bother me to see some T&A in a game, but I could buy some adult DVDs if I''m going to buy a game for that.

Sure, I like the tongue-in-cheek tease that I get behind a wood elf in EQ and in many other games where sexuality is emphasized, but I don''t really want to see sex in any game. It''s (sex) not really a spectator sport, IMHO.

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GoofProg    127
Remember video games can be created like movies. Some good and some bad. I think sexuality into a video game can be good, but just ranchy stuff will not go anywhere. I am sure there are ranchy games on the 'net, but I guarantee they are not making someone rich off of it.

sexually suggestive material is good especially for some character development, but I would not base a whole game in just sex.

Edited by - GoofProg on January 3, 2002 1:45:14 PM

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digitaldirt    122
krezisback,

I never said anything of the sort. I think you take everything out of proportion. Coming from someone with who posts things like this. I can see why...

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=72992

I was merely commenting on why todays games are good the way they are. To the first poster, you have my apologies, as this was mainly directed at this topic in general. though movies and games are really still 2 different productions. Movings can get away with more sexual content, becuase it is based on real people, relationships, drama, romantic comedy, love... while, most people still find it hard to relate to a polygon-based lifeform. (i.e. the final fantasy movie was just a fancy demo reel... her eyes didn't even tear up.) People relate to people. not machines.

take care.

p.s. and not to mention, krez, your Robot Alien Rape Quest? thats pretty pathetic.


Edited by - digitaldirt on January 3, 2002 2:08:42 PM

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HenryApe    120
Why would the sex in games have to involve polygonal models? I remember old strip poker games for the Amiga, and even earlier computers, that just used digital photos.

I believe the success of adult-themed games has a lot do with markets, in the US an overly sexual game is not likely to reach any wide distribution for political reasons and in Germany an overly violent game is likely to be banned. In Australia they seem to ban everything (judging from their censorship laws against online sexual content and their recent ban against GTA3) while they seem to be very fond of sleeze in Japan (an article about a successful arcade game where you poke a fake finger up a fake ass: http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,48438,00.html ).

Ernest Adams wrote two articles on the subject for Gamasutra and at least he seems to be taking the subject seriously.

Edit: Rephrasal

Edited by - HenryApe on January 3, 2002 2:37:23 PM

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krez    443
quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
krezisback,
I never said anything of the sort. I think you take everything out of proportion.

true, i do blow things out of proportion sometimes. but, read the first paragraph of your previous post:
quote:
To the original poster... I think you need to find a girlfriend or someone you can have a "serious adult" relationship/theme with. If your looking for self gratification in games, I think your looking in the wrong place. Go buy a magazine or a video... if it turns you on to watch little cartoony animated figures screw eachother... then I think something went wrong with your childhood...

what exactly did i "take out of proportion" this time?
quote:
Coming from someone with who posts things like this. I can see why...
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=72992
...
p.s. and not to mention, krez, your Robot Alien Rape Quest? thats pretty pathetic.

obviously you don't share my sense of humor. either that, or you have never seen any japanese cartoons (oh, and you must love the police too).
[EDIT]HenryApe posted as i was typing:
quote:
they seem to be very fond of sleeze in Japan (an article about a successful arcade game where you poke a fake finger up a fake ass: http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,48438,00.html)

i guess my "Robot Alien Rape Quest" joke was right on the bat, huh?[/EDIT]
quote:
To the first poster, you have my apologies, as this was mainly directed at this topic in general.

in that case, you are at fault. you miswrote your thoughts; i didn't misread them.
stop trying to make me into a bad guy for defending some random person from your accidental insults.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on January 3, 2002 2:39:55 PM

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Punk    122
I''m an aspiring filmmaker, so I won''t say smack about sexual content. It sometimes helps with the storyline and emotional effects the producers want people to have. What I am sick of are movies, commercials, and games that have F#!$ me written all over them. It''s all a matter of where to draw the line.

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digitaldirt    122
krez,

I am not going to take this any further. and I won''t edit my first post. I made a mistake in directing my comments to the first poster and openly admit that. I will not cover it up. It was aimed more at the masses in general who want filth in games. Again, Tab, I do apoligize. (for the 2nd time).

Anyway, I don''t like getting pulled over by bored cops as much as you don''t. but overall, I am glad that we have law enforcement in this country. Just imagine if someone came to your house, and killed someone you loved. and you couldn''t tell anyone, becuase noone cared. LAW is good. Killing cops or any group of law abiding "people" is not something I enjoy in video games. all those cops and firefighters who died to protect this land that you take for granted deserve so much more than to be killed or shot in video games.

all this qouting... krez. I must have really struck something for you to want to do all that work. Anyway, lets leave all this at that. I''m done. Good luck in your quest.



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krez    443
quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
all this qouting... krez. I must have really struck something for you to want to do all that work. Anyway, lets leave all this at that. I''m done. Good luck in your quest.

now, if you were a true krez fan you would know better than to say that... i almost always quote before i respond, it helps when the first poster has a problem with remembering what he said (*ahem*)...
quote:
Anyway, I don''t like getting pulled over by bored cops as much as you don''t. but overall, I am glad that we have law enforcement in this country... all those cops and firefighters who died to protect this land that you take for granted deserve so much more than to be killed or shot in video games.

you seriously must lighten up. when i was talking about "my sense of humor" i just assumed you would make the mental connection "humor -> joking". my bad... i will explain myself: IT WAS A JOKE!
quote:
I am not going to take this any further. and I won''t edit my first post. I made a mistake in directing my comments to the first poster and openly admit that. I will not cover it up. It was aimed more at the masses in general who want filth in games. Again, Tab, I do apoligize. (for the 2nd time).

it''s all good. i never said you should "cover it up" or that you hadn''t apologized (i never even said you meant it, i was just repeating your words exactly). but
(apologized != never happened) 
... that is why i pointed out that you had said something of the sort.
stop being all pissy and just read what i write rather than getting defensive.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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Knights of Xentar

This was a fun anime-style (hentai) RPG put out, I believe, in '95 or '96. The game was basically a standard RPG, but the graphics were ... suggestive. You could also buy an NC-18 add-on if you were so inclined.

I found a review at http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/knightsofxentar/Knights_of_Xentar.html

Maybe you could make two sets of graphics, dialogues, and cutscenes and sell the "updated" version as an add-on like they did?

-Steven

Edited by - Spinal Confusion on January 3, 2002 4:39:09 PM

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