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Stefpet

Programmer AND artist?

31 posts in this topic

I''m wondering... how many are there (like me) that is both into programming AND graphics? And I mean programming more than knowing basic and graphics more than drawing dummy tiles, etc. I believe it''s even more seldom at a true professional level than here at gamedev.
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I am a coder as well as a artist. Artist first, but to see my work in a "interactive" enviroment I had to learn (still learning) how to code my own stuff.
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I am a straight coder now, but I originally was an artist and a designer. The only graphics I do now is simple 2D and logos with Moray and POV ray.

Domini
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I''m deffenately both. I have a very vissual mind. That helps me "see" the flow of a program and notice where there are "bad" spots where data''s not being validated enough. It also, of course, helps me to draw. Not to brag but people are always supprised both by what I can program and what I can draw. On the downside, I have a VERY hard time with names and numbers. Almost all my programs have spelling mistakes in the interface. Programming languages have a limited set of reserved words so it''s a lot easier to remember.

I''ve noticed that a lot of the people that I know that think vissualy are good at programming and art. You need a good deal of creativity for both as well.

(of course practice is #1 for learning anything.)

E:cb woof!
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Started getting into coding when at university, but after recently getting trueSpace 3 I am enjoying getting into graphics.

It''s nice to do a bit of both.
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I don''t know if Mason agrees, but it''s also very convenient to be a programmer and also have some artistic skills. Of course having a dedicated artist may free up more coding time, but to be able to do graphics yourself for your projects I think is a plus (not talking about multimillion dollars projects).

Going from a one person team to be a coder and an artist is quite a big step and the reason to fail because of communication problems increases rapidly in my opinion.
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Ukrainian huh? My grandparents on my dad''s side are Ukrainian. (My last name''s Michalski)

I only use pirated software if there''s no way I''d pay for it otherwise. I could get some games from some friends but the games are good and they''re not that expensive so I pay for them. However, some Micro$oft software is way above what I would ever pay for it, especialy since I rarely ever use it, so I use copies of them.

E:cb woof!
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I''ve been writing code for years, and after graduating from Highschool I enrolled in an art and design school. I graduated from there with a degree in new media and a focus on conceptual sculpture. I continue to have multiple shows of my work each year as well as perform my music while being employed as a software engineer. I find certain types of companies (startups, multimedia, web, .com''s) enjoy my skills. In fact, most companies seem to be really interested in my desire to work on those two areas in tandem..

Just do whatchawantandwhenyouwantto. That''s what life should be.
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One of my biggest hold backs from becoming an artist professionaly is that I''m color blind. Sucks. It can be so frustrating being a color blind artist.

And I''m not red-green color blind. It''s almost like I''m looking through a green lense. Greens will look white (green on a stop light), yellow (like 100% green on a computer screen), sometimes green (grass), or brown (if it''s really dark).
Red almost always looks brown unless it''s a really pure, light red. Pink will look either red or gray, depending on the shade.

Needless to say, I''m dangerous behind the wheel. I''ve ran strait through stop signs before because it blends in with the trees behind it.

E:cb woof!
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Ah yes composing!
It's a hobby of mine!
Music I compose was never published, but my friends say it's good (even when they don't know it was composed by me). Styles I like are Drum'n'Base, Breakbeat(my favorite), Hip Hop, Acid, anything experimental
(mail me if want to hear something of what I have composed)

I think if you are REALLY creative, you are creative from any side, and that helps. For example when I write an easy program I quickly draw a logo for it and it momentary has a proffessional look. Cool!

When you can do everything on your own all you need is time.
Time - that is a thing that lacks to me. If I only had a time I'd create the best //put your own dream here// all over the world!

It's bad to be a color blind. . . . . I think so. . .
dog135 :> So what about your grands? If they live here, mail me, I can contact them if you want.

---------------------------------

Oh i've got one single legal (excluding freeware) program - mouse driver shipped with my mouse [ROFL] !



Edited by - Maluke on 2/1/00 4:16:29 PM
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Where do you guys get your slightly illegal software. I need a graphics program, but I can''t afford any of them.

Sorry this is off topic.
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did you know 3D studio MAX cost $10,000!? That''s crap. I have a pirated copy of it, Adobe Photoshop, and Paint Shop Pro. Where to get them? I''ll pretend like I don''t know. (www.new-warez.com has warez and links to other sites) but you didn''t hear that from me. ;-)
I compose my own music, I don''t know if there''s a genre for it, but I forte at dreary, bleak, keep you at the edge of your seat music. I suck at graphics. I either steal those or have my talented friend create them for me.
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3D studio max cost $3500, about $1000 if you are a student..
www.ktx.com


-Syntax
-dieraxx@iname.com
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Everyone can afford Paintshop Pro, Animation Master 2000, Nendo, Bryce 3... etc, etc...

People that take their calling seriously should invest in their software, it''s not only the decent thing to do, but it also helps you in your endeavours. When you''ve parted from some money you make damn sure you get your investement worth - thus you work more.

Where do you think all those sucky MAX guys come from? www.warezdudez.com
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Stefpet - that''s true, I agree... if your artist isn''t talented and can''t work without guidance, it''s often easier to do it yourself.

RANT: As for piracy - it doesn''t matter if you can''t afford it, or if it''s not available where you are. Piracy is stealing.

I hope that you pirates either %(*$&ing grow up and pay for the software that you use, or that you end up in jail like all the other theives.

Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios - home of Quaternion, 2000 GDC Indie Games Fest Finalist!
www.spin-studios.com
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I''m really curious how many of the people who claim they are artists & programmers actually have FORMAL ARTISTIC TRAINING. I used to believe I was both when I was majoring in CS, however I transferred to art to study computer animation and discovered what I never before realized. the world is full of people who think they are artists but really aren''t (i even used to be one of them). I used to think I could draw, but it was nothing compared to what formal training has offered me. anyone can use graphic software (i.e. the picture above), very few people are sensitive enough to create good design and composition. being artistic enough to wow your friends is not being an artist. I would estimate that MOST programmers think they are artists, everybody who has ever created a sphere in Max, drawn a person on notebook paper, used a cheesy photoshop filter, or created a web page thinks that, but really how many of the people here actually have had figure drawing classes, or truelly studied proportions, perspective, lighting, color, composition, design and balance.
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Yes ''anony'' you''re right, but ''pic above'' was created without ANY filters - just brush strokes. Do you think everyone who create something good (for ex. in art) must have studied that? I think I''m good at programming and I KNOW I can TEACH any of my teachers of programming in university. They are ''old'' (mostly 40+) and think Delphi is the way Windows works, when they see my really clear API cone (no VCL) they can''t understand what''s that and say not to use any ADDONs !!! Sucks!
So an artist has to study rpoportions. What if I''m an mathematician and know what is proportions and what is perspective better than any artist that should teach me? You think that to compose music you must study how to do it. I say that I SEARCHED teacher to show me up how to create really good breakbeats, sure I haven''t found any. I started experimenting and now SIX months later I can say I''m a PRO in breakbeats for sure!! Sure studding helps, but the only way of studding I think is good for creative jobs is EXPERIENCE EXCHANGE !!! Thats why all we love I-Net and GameDev ! (most of us)

I hope most of YOU do support me. Please confirm.


[Cause nobody can do it like mixmaster can]-+-+-{BEaSTy BOYs}

Maluke [MLKent@mail.ru]
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I''ve noticed my first message was deleted. Sure I should have not pasted my image into message, sorry.

About pirating. YES it''s a crime. But if someone uses 3D MAX illegally to gain experience and then past some time buys it and makes money with it is it bad? Or he should guess that 3D MAX is good tool buy it, try it, discover he can''t make use of it and put on the shelf? Or hear 3D MAX is a cool tool but not to buy it cause it''s too expensive for him and he doesn''t want to risk buying tool he never tried?

[Cause nobody can do it like mixmaster can]-+-+-{BEaSTy BOYs}

Maluke [MLKent@mail.ru]
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Check this:

ftp://ftp.unicyb.kiev.ua/pub/

That''s my faculty''s OFFICIAL site. You can find a lot of pirated software and only pirated software there.

If you have a proggie but don''t have a reg. key try hack it on your own, it''s challanging. You can find tools for reverse engeneering at:

www.neworder.box.sk

If you can''t do it on your own, can for sure find it there:

www.astalavista.box.sk


BUT IF YOU MAKE USE OF ANY PROGRAM -- CONSIDER BUYING IT !!!
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Hello
I''m just another case... A programmer who does both, development and gfx. Unfortunately though, my artistic skills are not just awful.... ( if you wish a good nightmare, tell me to make some gfx for you )

Looking for a teamate??? You got me

BTW: If anyone has any intresting idea about some game or something, and needs a second programmer in the team let me know. But only a 2persons team.

X-treme DevTeam
http://www.x-treme.gr/
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I get all my free software from my mom when she upgrades to the newer versions. She gives me the old disks. I never use any of them for professional reasons, I only play around with them just because I have them. All my compilers I have I pay for in full. Right now I''m saving up $400 for CodeWarrier professional version. I COULD get it for free, I know some people with it. But it''s a program that I need so I''m going to pay for it.

If I have software that has a key on it, I normally hack through it. Even though I''ve payed for it I get sick of having to look in the book for some value or stick in the CD each time I want to play the game. I did this to one of my games because my laptop doesn''t have a CD player and now, when I finish the first level, it just sits there with the timer running down. Hmm, I need to see what I did wrong. (BTW: When I hack a program, I just hack in strait hexadecimal. I have a program that''ll let me view the code, but I have to change it in Hex. I have notes on the binary values of assembly commands.)

I wish I could write music. I''m tone deaf as well as color blind. I can get around my color blindness easily enough by just using primary colors and shading over the top of that. (Or pulling the colors off of a picture or another drawing) But there''s no way to get around being tone deaf when writting music. I''ve tried before to make a song with a MOD editor but it turned out horrable. I''m not even good at getting the timing right. When I finish my game, if I want to add music, I''ll have to pay someone to make some for me. At least I can do all the programming and graphics myself.

In my opinion, some of the best art/programs I''ve seen have been by people who were self taught. As long as you know what to study and keep pushing yourself, I think you can become very good very fast if you''re self taught. In the case of art, someone can easily find pictures to study proportions and see for themselfs the ratio between different body parts. There''s also a lot of books and tutorials which you can learn from. I''ve never been in a class that taught me more then I could learn on my own. No to mention classes often teach things you don''t WANT to learn. (ie: School art class teaches painting when I wanted to learn more about drawing)

E:cb woof!
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I''m a programmer and artist. I''ve always loved drawing. Then I got into programming. Then I got into graphics programming. Then I used that theoretical knowlege to better use the 3d animation and 2d image programs.
I remember once I was arguing with this one guy who thought that a UV editor was a part of a program that let you paint textures Then I explained what the variables U and V were. He was rather annoyed at being prooven wrong by a 15 year old
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Responding to the original topic:
_I''d say I''m about 80% artist, 20% programmer. Can make great ANSI [text-gfx] art [at least me and my friend think so], do some decent composing, and model 3D [kind of stink at textures though.] Basically, I''ll try any type of art on the computer.
_My programming skills are rather basic [pun intended.] I can understand a language [line Java], understand the code and even write pseudo-code, but I''ve never had enough patience to finish a project [except my Bin-save loader and yes, debugging takes 90% of my programming time.]
_I think a good goal for artistic programmers is to make visuals that don''t repulse people. Some people can expect too much from one person. Wouldn''t it be nice if your critics would help you out with pointers instead of saying "it lacks good form."?
_As for warez, YUCK! How do you expect newer versions to be developed, especially "consumer editions?" [And why did all my friends have 3DS MAX and infini-D?] The closest I''ve ever come is using a demo version of trueSpace 1 for about 18 months. I finally bought 4.2 for $200 directly from Caligari. [It''s amazing what types of deals you''ll get by subscribing to a company''s e-mailing list!]
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I am self taught myself. that is why i left CS, cause my programming level was much higher than the level they were teaching us at. I believe you can teach yourself programming and be very good at it... however i believe passionately differently about art. of course it required me getting a real education in art to understand how important an education really is. I don''t expect any of you who are "self taught" to understand, because I used to feel the same way as all of you. of course anyone can teach themselves book knowledge (ie programming). but reading books on accurate proportions of a figure will not teach you proportions properly. why? i will try to explain some of my reasonings. i know they will not be popular with anyone, but those of you who have not had the privilege of a true education have no idea what you''re missing.
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