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ahw

A graphic engine for protoyping

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Hello folks, I have been thinking about that one for ages now. I need a 3D engine to make some prototyiping for my Master''s report, and so I have been considering a few. I thought for a while of Halflife, the SDK is huge, but my main concern is that I would have a hard time making modifications for my own stuff... then I discovered that Garagegames were releasing the source for Tribes2 ?! so I am a bit more enthusiastic about that one, but still... And yesterday, I discovered this thing called DarkBasic. The box showed nice screenshots, and I had heard of it here before. I must say I am more interested in a already tried and tested engine (such as the Torque engine, or HalfLife engine), mainly because I want to test my AI in a "realistic" environment (that is, a professional level graphic engine, to see how complicated the AI can go before the engine goes crawling). Now, does anyone here has any comments on those engines I am considering ? Have you coded with them, and how satisfying was that ? In the case of DarkBasic, how easy is it to create your own map structure, is it really low level coding or what ? Also, I am still desperately looking for _proper_ tutorials or articles about Bot coding in Tribes 2 or HalfLife. Is it jsut me or there is no material whatsoever on the Net ??? thanks for your help,
Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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I used the dmeo version of Dark Basic which can create exe''s but they have pop up screen at the beginning. It is very simple to learn, comes with good example games, and is based on DirectX (I think).

BTw Good luck on getting your masters.

Also, where cna you get the source for Tribes 2?

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Puzzler : I think I am gonna have to get that demo of this DarkBasic thingie, then...

well, Garagegames.com is the place to go to *buy* (for a 100$) the Torque engine (formerly known as V12) that powers the fabulous Tribes 2. They had to remove the AI code from the source because of Sierra (too bad for me), but apparently that''s pretty much it.

as31415rin : well, I know of Botman''s tutorials. The problem with this type of stuff is that''s it''s not theoretical enough for me, which is what I am really looking for : general thoughts about the conception of Bots, so that one could then code them in any language, adapt them to any game. I have read some fabulous papers on sniping and grenade throwing written with a modified Quake engine. The theory there was very well explained and this was a great resource for me. but that''s pretty much all I have found so far





Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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the cgf ai stuff ? yes, nice texts, although i wouldnt ever have had the time to write sth. like this

according to the thread''s title i just thought you were looking for an engine to build your AI stuff upon ....

@$3.1415rin

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quote:
Original post by ahw


Also, I am still desperately looking for _proper_ tutorials or articles about Bot coding in Tribes 2 or HalfLife. Is it jsut me or there is no material whatsoever on the Net ???

thanks for your help,



Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !



I'd say the best 'bot tutorials are, really, looking at other 'bots. I'm sure there must be some smallish papers or something written on the subject on one of the various 'bot sites but study of the code will generally take you from theory into practice.

Good luck....




Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
www.gameai.com

From the High Mountains of Colorado

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc



Edited by - Ferretman on January 9, 2002 9:51:11 AM

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There''s always genesis 3d. Never used it, but it''s free.

Alex Broadwin
A-Tronic Software & Design
-----
"if you fail in life, you were destined to fail. If you suceed in life, call me."
"The answer is out there."
"Please help, I''m using Windows!"

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You need to consider the fact that you want a game engine more than a rendering engine. With an already made game, you can plug in your AI very quickly and get cool results (Q2/Q3/HL). With a 3D engine, you''ll need to code up a fair bit of logic and make up an interesting environment even before you can start the AI development. I was in a similar situation, and basically ended up developing a game MOD with a bit more AI. Keeping the code modular will allow you to change its applications later if you want.

Alex



Artificial Intelligence Depot - Maybe it''s not all about graphics...

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I own the Torque Gaming Engine and I assure you that they are starting to replace the AI they had to remove. They are starting to build up the frame work for one at least.

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Why get the Half-Life SDK or even the Tribes source (*gag*) when the full source to Quake 2 was just released?

I think a good bot resource would be the Neuralbot.

"If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein

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Guest Anonymous Poster
There have been several papers and articles written about using games for research. I am interested in this too, and so far it looks like Unreal Tournament is the most flexible - it is object oriented, it comes with an editor, neat things can be done with their mutators, etc.

Check out [url=http://www.planetunreal.com/gamebots/]this[/url] site that has info, documentation, and source code. This was (is) a project called Gamebots by USC.

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It''s nice to see the feedback Thanks guys !

Anonymous : I wonder about Unreal Tournament for a while, too. I havent been able to see the scripting engine, though.
Tribes 2 is mostly script based, too, so I think I would rather stick with it.

ALexjc : You see the problem of using an already used engine is the fact that you have to stick with the already existing underlying structure of the environment (the map format, if you prefer).
My problem is that I like the Tribes 2 engine levels... wide open spaces and few buildings. Stuff you cant really do properly in most BSP based games... unless you do some major modifying which means you need access to the graphic engine. And that''s something I dont really want to go near, if I can avoid it.
I havent totally dropped the idea of making my project basically a MOD. But I am not just sure yet

core : Mmmmh... my problem is that I dont like the Quake 2 engine that much If I was a genius programmer, I''d say "No problem", I''ll jsut recode the beast. But honestly I am not there yet ...

but you guys have any other ideas, let me know.

Any one heard about this Game AI wisdom book coming out soon ?




Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Yeah - nearly all of the non speed critical code in UT is written in ''Unreal Script'' (only the core engine stuff is written in C - to keep those frame rates nice and crispy)- unless you want to learn a new syntax id stick with C++!

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I remember an article at Gamasutra which was mainly about planning attacks and stuff for bots, can''t remember too much about it though.

I haven''t tried it, but I''ve heard that the scripting in Flashpoint is quite good. Although that might just be for level design and not actual game mechanics.

You might want to check BlitzBasic as well, I haven''t tried it or DarkBasic, but they seem to be in a similar vein.

And have you seen the articles at www.ai-depot.com? (I think the link is right), there are some good ones there which might help.

Trying is the first step towards failure.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
UT''s UnrealScript is somethign along the lines of a Java Hybrid, fairly easy to get up to speed on the syntax. It woudldn''t be a bad thing to at least look into. It''s very versatile and you already have their scripts to learn from.

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quote:
Original post by ahw
It''s nice to see the feedback Thanks guys !



Honestly the gang made a ton of great suggestions. I stand by my original claim that the best testbeds for such things as you describe remain the various FPS SDKs, though the recent release of the Quake II code is a powerful attractor too. Of course if you think their code is convuluted (and it is) then stay away from it; you''ve got enough to do just building your AI!

quote:

Any one heard about this Game AI wisdom book coming out soon ?



Indeed I have since I did one of the chatpers . It''s pretty neat I think; you can find out more at either my site or at the AI Wisdom site, as you wish. The book is slated to be released in time for GDC.




Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
www.gameai.com

From the High Mountains of Colorado

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