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grine

my idea for an original rpg; please help

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grine    122
Hi. This is my first post here and I'd like to ask you guys if you like my idea for an RPG, instead of the usual cliched stuff you see. Bye the way, this idea isn't finished and i'd like any ideas or criticism. When this game's finished, I'm going to put it on my website for download the address for my site is by the way, i need advice. Once you've read this full article and replied, can you please tell me what programming language I should do this in, and what free compiler i should use (it has to be one that compiles under Windows). the languages i know are: HTML C C++ java-script Perl Okay. The game's set in another reality, and you belong to a race called the Twevens. You are an 11 year old named Motu, and are the general's son. Your country and another country (Karochiae) are at war with each other and you don't know why. Anyway, a bomb attack from the Karochiaens wipes out the Tweven capital city, killing millions, including your father. Fortunately, you and about 100 other Twevens escape. You and 7 friends ride a boat. It crashes and sinks, and you find a sunken Karochiaen submarine. You board it, and find 100 years worth of food, liquid and air. For the next 3 years, you and your friends create weapons and train for a rebel assault on the Karochiaens. When you're ready, you are unable to find a way to the surface, since you don't know how to pilot a submarine. Suddenly though, the ship starts moving to the surface. You then find out that the submarine is AI programmed, and has psychic abilities and knew what you wanted and were doing. The submarine had developed free will and hated it's masters and hid itself in the depths of the ocean, and wants revenge for being enslaved. When you land, you discover that the Karochiaens have taken over your country. You also find out that there are several resistance factions fighting the Karochiaens. You get captured by one group, who believe you to be traitors, as you were riding a Karochiaen sub. They imprison you in their underground base, stealing your weapons. Weeks later, a Karochiaen force assaults the base, takes it over, and imprisons the resistance faction that caught you. The faction then realises that you're not allies with the Karochiaens. You and the others plan and eventually you capture the base again. Later an elite Karochiaen team attack and kill 3 members of your team and 10 members of the other team, leaving a total of 8 people on your side (Motu included.) You form one alliance and go into hiding in a complex cave system at the beach. Fortunately, before you left you took back your weapons. Motu goes and spies on a Karochiaen town and finds out about a small island to the northeast where the surviving Twevens live. You and 4 others manage to hijack a cargo ship headed for another country (i forget the name of this country) and after a few months, arrive at the island. You spy on the people andare shocked to see such disgusting slums where only a few dozen people live. You assume the others died. On your way home, there is terrible weather and 3 of you get terribly sick (later they get better). Anyway, when you get home, you plan to go back and train the people to fight, so a major battle can begin, an equivalent of D-day. When you tell the others at home this, they think it's a good idea, but only one of your group can go, because everyone else is sick (Motu included). The chosen one goes and doesn't come back. When you go into town to spy on people you find that the Karochiaen army have launched a missile onto the island at the same time as the chosen one was their. Your group is saddened. Anyway, I haven't decided what goes here but there is an important plot twist that explains why this war is occuring. You see, it turns out that your species, the Twevens, are aliens. And the reason you look so similar to the Karochiaens (except for skin color) is because back when your species entered the planet, some Karochiaen females were raped, creating a cross-breed. Then it turns out that the Karochiaens didn't want to share land with the original breed of Twevens (this was about 900 years ago). The Karochiaens forced the Twevens to stay on a little group of islands. The Twevens didn't want this, and retaliated by threatening to kill an important head of government of the Karochiaens. Then a war broke out and has been continuing for many years.... Anyway, Motu decides that both races were at wrong and spends time feeling confused, not sure what side he belongs to. It also turns out that since only a dozen or so people lived on the island, there is another island where Twevens live. That's all I've though of so far. Please reply to this. I need some help with plotting this. BTW, the battles in this won't be random, as not many people like random battles. If you invent a time machine and travel back and forward through time, what would happen if you travelled to the time when the Universe doesn''t exist anymore? Edited by - grine on January 10, 2002 5:50:46 PM

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eldee    122
ok, if i were playing this game.. there would
be alot of questions i''d ask myself..
first and foremost.. why?
why are the countries at war?
what is the objective of the game?
how in the hell is there a boat that we escape on
and a submarine just waiting for us..
not to mention:
how did i get in the submarine (as it''d depressurize
and fill up with water the minute you opened a hatch).
how can you fill 100 years worth of food liquid ect
on a submarine?
more importantly.. how do you train a ''rebel resistance''
with only 7 people in 3 years?
did they pro-create?
dunno.. just some of the questions that would be running
through my head.
when you ''finalize'' your plot, you should think of some
key elements to it:

#1) there HAS to be a point. and the point must be clear.
from start to finish, the point must not waver (unless
there is an interesting plot twist that deems things necessary,
but not twisty enough to make the player question the entire
first half of the game). If the point is to avenge your
father and take your kingdom back.. i dont care how much
depth is in between, the point is still cliche''d.

#2) in games, realism is a very flexible thing. you can bend
the player''s imagination to accept whatever implausible act
that you have occuring.. this is totaly acceptable.. but
you should have some sort of reason behind it.
you simply cant say "well, the boat sank, the ship was there,
we had plenty of food and water, so now lets go kick the crap
out of the bad guys" it leaves the player creating his own
explainations as to why things are happening. by the time
something IS explained, the player is so lost in his own
defenition of your reality that it really doesnt matter anymore.

as for game programming, you might try C out.. its fairly simple
to learn. its like othello.. a minute to learn, a lifetime to master.. (or 4 years of university studies and a few on the job years)..

anyway, best of luck to ya.


-eldee
;another space monkey;

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Original perhaps because it sounded like you came up with this in a few hours.. or less.

Boat sinks and you swim to a submarine... but cant get back out?

You swam into it to begin with... hello?

7 people escape a missle attack?... what about all the boats allready at sea?

100 years of food?... who does that and why?... lets consider that alone for just a moment.

lets say you eat two MRE''s (Meals Ready to Eat) a day at the very least. A case contains 24. so one case contains 12 days of food per person.
365/12 = roughly 30... so 30 cases to last a year... per person
thats 210 cases for all 7 per year... for one hundred years and thats 21,000 cases of MRE''s

thats alot of food, for a submarine...

the rest of your plot is just as unbelievable.

Ild rethink what you want.

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diseaser2002    122
ok, like mention above, there are many question involving the game like why is there a war and so on.

but what really puzzles me is quiet frankly.. when does the game start actually, what kinda perpective of the game (first/third person view or the normal Diablo kinda view) and why on earth such a weird story(no offence)??? The starting was nice and all, but the submarine part umm....sucks really. As you go through the game, why on earth does Motu and his few compatriots get sick? I mean, if there were submarines with AI(and capable of choosing who to hate and like), I''m sure they dont use lameass cargo ships available in thhis current time(i mean seriously, compare the submarines advanceness to a cargo ship that is soo lame that the people on it can even get seasick). so change that part to something more realistic. Other than that, it was preety ok.

oh and use C++.



good luck in your adventures!

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Garott    122
grine: try to put your story into the classic 3 act structure,

Beginning - Motu''s life gets drastically changed,

Middle - Motu and gang find a hidden place and build their meager strength into an elite fighting force, but something terrible happens...

End - Motu finds a way to solve the problem and after an epic battle gets his life back together.


Try structuring your story like the above and see how it goes, but don''t forget what the others said about having a reason behind each action (unless its blatantly obvious).

Re-post when your done.

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Drizzt DoUrden    100
quote:
Original post by grine
For the next 3 years, you and your friends create weapons and train for a rebel assault on the Karochiaens. When you''re ready, you are unable to find a way to the surface, since you don''t know how to pilot a submarine. Suddenly though, the ship starts moving to the surface. You then find out that the submarine is AI programmed, and has psychic abilities and knew what you wanted and were doing. The submarine had developed free will and hated it''s masters and hid itself in the depths of the ocean, and wants revenge for being enslaved


I didn''t read the rest, or other peoples responses, but I think this idea would be better if the Karochiaens programmed the sub to come to the surface, and they take your weapons and enslave you and you have to find more stuff out.

That would be interesting. Almost-impossible situations are great in RPGs.

------------------------------
Simple DirectMedia Layer:

Main Site - (www.libsdl.org)
Cone3D Tutorials- (cone3D.gamedev.net)
GameDev.net''s Tutorials - (Here)

OpenGL:

Main Site - (www.opengl.org)
NeHe Tutorials - (nehe.gamedev.net)
Online Books - (Red Book) (Blue Book)

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grine    122
thanks heaps for your help. i''m updating the plot now and when it''s finished i''ll post it here.



If you invent a time machine and travel back and forward through time, what would happen if you travelled to the time when the Universe doesn''''t exist anymore?

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Garott    122
black_mage_s said:-

"No offense, but could your game be any more cliched?
This has to have been done a million times"

True, but the "new" star trek series has started and I could easily say the same for that, except they''re professionals and he''s just starting out...

I think this forum is best used for guidance regarding story structure, and grammar, ie, the idea may suck, but lets try and improve it rather than bash it...

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black_mage_s    103
sorry, ive become somewhat angered about certain people who have interviewed me for certain jobs and now i feel like going on a certain kind of spree which may or may not involve killing.

its not a bad idea, just a bad day

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grine    122
black_mage_s i didn''t really take offense to what you said but thanks for apologising. we all have bad days every now and then I don''t blame you.

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sunandshadow    7426
Playing with the submarine idea... Ok, I like the idea of a little group of people being stuck on a submarine for 3 years. Kind of Lord-of-the-Fliesish. If the original crew was much larger, we can assume that the submarine has enough food. Or we can just not worry bout food at all. Now, the submarine should either be a character from near the beginning of them being stuck, or not at all. So now we need to answer some questions: how do they manage to be stuck? What happened to the people originally on the submarine when it sank? What interesting things can we ask the player to do while stuck in the submarine? What player-objective will trigger the escape from the ship, and why did it take them 3 years to do it? If the ai is a character and is rebelling against its side, what is its motivation to do so?

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Dracoliche    122
Trapped, alone, at the bottom of the sea, in a cramped sub. I''m guessing these people aren''t going to be 100% mentally stable when they come out; nor are they going to be totally appreciative of each other''s presence while on the sub.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
I kind of like the submarine thing too. If the thing was big enough (and it would have to be a decent size to hold all that food), you could base a good part of the game around life on board.

Exploring the depths of the sub.
Slowly discovering the secrets of the sub''s emergent intelligence or plain old AI.

Also it would give you a chance to introduce the characters well. In fact, this theme could even work as an adventure game.

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GBGames    217
Ooo! What about this?
The submarine has been down there for quite some time. Years maybe.
When they do find a way into it, which might involve the sub "letting" them in somehow. Let's say that otherwise, they would have drowned, but they wake up to find themselves on this submarine because while they were floating down to their deaths, the sub itself opened up and took them in somehow...let's think maybe like The Abyss, or maybe just some kind of pressure chamber on the outside, which has the water pumped out so that they can breathe ok once inside.
They don't know what happened to them, at least not until they find out that the ship itself has some intelligence.
It originally doesn't trust them, but is curious, having not seen children before. Slowly they begin to trust each other, as the sub learns that the children are just children, and the children learn that the sub doesn't understand any more about why the war exists either.
At some point the sub realizes that there isn't enough food to allow the children to survive...Actually, wouldn't fish do fine? How about, one of the children gets scurvy from a lack of Vitamin C? The sub rises up to let the others get some oranges or something from the islands, but then the attack happens.
The sub is angered, and retaliates against the attackers, which naturally frighten the children...or maybe the children don't even realize what happened? Like, they know they heard explosions, but they don't know what was going on.
Hey I think I like the way this story is going...B-)



Edited by - GBGames on January 13, 2002 8:45:09 PM

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Ion_blaster    122
First off, to make a good RPG, you must have the following (i see you have some of em):

A. A deeeeeep stroyline. My game''s story is so long and deeeeep, it takes an hour to tell the summerized version.

B. Lots of characters. 5 to 20 atleast.

C. Items and Weapons Galore. 10 to 100 weapons and/or items.

D. Alternate Endings. I recommend this. You must make an alternative ending that will totaly suprise the player so much, he''ll be asking so many questions. Maybe enough for a sequal if you leave those questions unanswered.

Go 4 it!

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PWhermn    122
i have an idea to toss into the mix. in addition to the idea about the mental stability of the crew after the 3 years alone in the submerged sub, how about when they emerge from the waters bent on winning the war, the war is already over? the years they spent training and the mindset they have, their brain is so fixed and clouded that they are the only ones that don''t see it. so basically they are fighting a war long since passed. you could tell it in a don quixote (sp?) point of view.
just my 2 cents worth but it would make the story more interesting. maybe their exploits would rekindle the war?

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Ion_blaster    122
heres something you can try: adding a twist to the ending!

by doing that, you can add extra flavor. example: one of the main characters is working for the enemy or becomes the darkest creature in the universe. or your character waking up and the whole thing was a dream.

"Kick ass and chew bubble gum. Darnet! I''m out of gum!"

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GBGames    217
quote:
Original post by Ion_blaster
heres something you can try: adding a twist to the ending!

by doing that, you can add extra flavor. example: one of the main characters is working for the enemy or becomes the darkest creature in the universe. or your character waking up and the whole thing was a dream.

"Kick ass and chew bubble gum. Darnet! I''m out of gum!"


It was all a dream? *groan*
B-)
Maybe if the game was all a dream in the first place, and you wake up in the end only to find out you didn''t wake up or that you had to wake up twice or something. But not just that it was all a dream. Too cliche.
Still, twists to an ending at least keep people talking for awhile after your game is out.

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TechnoHydra    122
Alright I have a few questions and suggestions.

Question: Is it really necesary for the sub to have 100 years of food/water/air if theyre only down there for three years? Suggestion: Give them 3 years of food/water/air, for 7 people this is very realistic if the original crew was much larger. If this sub is advanced and inteligent then maybe it killed the crew. The reason they want to leave after 3 years obviously would be dwindling supplies thats when the sub awakens? and brings them up.

Question: What happens to the sub when the main chars are captured? Is it destroyed? Does it run away? What? Suggestion: Have it either escape or get captured for study. Then later on they can use it instead of cargo ship to check out the island. On second thought just make it get captured by Twevens at the base and stays there through the invasion of the other nation and is still there when the twevens take the base over again then it'll be waiting in the dry dock when Motu gets ready to go to the island. That'll make it more believable.

Last suggestion for now: Make Motu a little older. 11 is REALLY young to be leading an organized rebellion. Just personal opinion, but make him about 14 or 15. By this time he would have recieved a decent education before his family is killed. Hope some of this helps.

Sorry for poor spelling.

Edited by - TechnoHydra on January 19, 2002 3:18:26 PM

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foobar    122
i agree for 14-15 being a good choice, because this should be your "targeted customer group" (im german-speaking, dont know the right phrase, but i hope i made myself clear).
will help them to sympathize/identify with the main-character.

bye,
-- foobar

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by grine


Okay.
The game''s set in another reality, and you belong to a race called the Twevens. You are an 11 year old named Motu,


Shouldn''t that be the eleven''s then lol

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Taharez    203
TechnoHydra:
Considering that it''s and alternate reality and all, couldn''t they be living on a slow-revolving planet? So his eleven years would be like 20 or something for us. Or their race could have a much faster maturing rate, so an 11-year old would be ocnsidered adult. =)

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Jason Zelos    211
I only have one question, where''s the gameplay ?

It sounds like a novel but this is a game, what choices do your players have, can they change the course of this war, pilot the submarine, drink themselves into a stupor. I like the premis but I think you need to allow for your players to change things, quite important things. You need to keep them stuck to the screen trying to affect their own choice of objectives, within reason.

,Jay

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SoakinKittens    122
There is a show on SCI-FI ( or was when I was in the dorm ). Pretty stupid really ( I didn''t watch it much ), but the space ship they had was intelligent, i think. If your submarine was intelligent, you could have part of your puzzles / role playing be trying to convince the submarine that: 1) it should like you / work with you / not kill you off like the original crew ( perform some feat for it, fix the engine/computer/whatever. ( On second thought, this is very stock. The submarine should want to find a mate or something. Instead of the "go here, collect item, return it to me" thing, You have to perform a matchmaking service or something odd for it. ) ) 2: that it wants to go where you want it to go. Submarines are offshoots of deep water sharks or something. It doesn''t WANT to go up to where it can get sunburned or eaten by dolphins. It LIKES deep water. to get it to land on shore consists of long hours of therapy and "you can do it" sessions.

Maybe this is cliche too, but i''m just making this up as i go.

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