Hello All, This is my first experience with this forum (so please be kind). I don''t know if such an amateurish undertaking is acceptable here or not, but I have been reading posts here a couple months and generally find the advise interesting and helpful. I am a programmer by trade and semi-avid gamer. I have been trying to come up with a game idea in my spare time at home using the "new" release of BlitzBasic3D. While it isn''t perhaps as powerful as developing a custom engine in C++ or using a different development language written in such, it is powerful enough (I feel) to give us amateur wannabe programmers an opportunity to perhaps complete a project that would otherwise fail due to lack of experience. I have spent much time trying to think up a game idea. One simple enough that a single person (like me) could write in his spare time that was fun and addictive enough to really capture a broad audience. After all, someone initially thought up Tetris and PacMan and Wizardry and... While those games nowadays might seem old and simple, at the time they were truly different and successful. And every one of those games could potentially be written by someone like me using a language like BlitzBasic. Unfortunately, I haven''t had any light bulbs go off and, while I wish I could aspire for something more, I may have to resign myself to the fact that I''ll be writing a game more for myself and perhaps no one else would ever even see it. In any event, I certainly wasn''t thinking of making money on it and wasn''t planning on quitting my day job anytime soon :o) I originally had an idea for a game with the "look and feel" of Final Fantasy Tactics. I remember playing this on my PS1 and enjoyed the experience. I thought it may not be too hard to develop the game tiles for this style of game as oppose to the lush and expansive game worlds that are so prevalent. And while BB3D does support BSP (forgetting for a moment some potential legal issues), most BB3D developers seem to be working on projects of the FPS variety. Even though this is my favorite genre (along with games like Diablo), I really don''t feel comfortable with trying to write one. I wanted my game to include some multiplayer aspect, so I could battle against an opponent instead of the computer. Not to mention I thought perhaps coding the MP aspects would be easier than trying to develop the AI, since the game would be based strongly on tactics and strategy and the network code wouldn''t have to be time sensitive since the game is "turn-based" and not real-time. So I worked on an editor. Came up with a name (Feudal Efforts). Decided on using a fantasy theme (my favorite), and came up with some design ideas. Someone on the Blitz forums was nice enough to host a little mini-site for me and so I even have my ideas and screenshots up on the web at http://feudaleffort.m2p.dk/ My original ideas were to have a large "game world" map divided into two kingdoms, with perhaps an area in between that was originally "neutral ground". I stated my initial goal as: "Each player rules a kingdom at opposite ends of a continent. Players will make their way across the map, capturing territories along the way. The player who captures his opponent''s fortress will win the game." I hoped to have each player command armies of pieces such as Warriors, Wizards, Druids, Assassins, Archers, etc... as well as perhaps gain the services of creatures such as Trolls and Ogres. At each location, when battle occurred, a player could select from his "library" of pieces a certain predetermined number (I originally thought 4). I wanted battle and success to be very much dependent on tactics. The success would go to the player who best used the combination of pieces'' abilities and the pros/cons that the terrain provided. "Winning" a battle would see that player gain control of that location and provide him the ability to move over that square in the future without the need for battle. I came up with what I thought was a pretty good system for experience. As a player used a certain type of piece, its success (whether casting magic, whacking an enemy, or healing, etc...) would result in both it gaining some experience as well as experience towards the "class" or "type" of piece. Since death would be a frequent occurrence, the idea was that when a player would go to enlist new pieces, it would start out at a level appropriate to the amount of experience the class has gained. So for instance, if I decided to concentrate on using a Fire Mage in many of my battles, that piece would gain experience (till it was killed) but the Fire Mage class itself would offer me the chance to enlist future Fire Mage''s that began at a greater level than the initial one. I also decided that the other class of pieces - "creatures" - could not be enlisted but perhaps had to be "won" somehow (defeating in battle?) or randomly attracted with factors matching the success and fame of the player. Of course, magic items and artifacts would somehow be included enabling the player to use "less cool" classes such as Archers and Warriors with as much success as the "cooler" ones like those with destructive spells. I was doing ok with my game editor until I began to think about the 3D modelling requirements. At this point, I began having doubts. I am not a modeller (although I do have software and am willing to try) and I didn''t want stupid, cheesy-looking models. So I doubted I could produce the models I wanted in the quantity I would need them and still be young enough to see my computer screen. Well, I want to work with this again. I want to try my hand with the modelling and think I could simplify my models enough that I could perhaps do them (even though I still know it will take forever) but give them a distinctive enough look to be satisfying. But as I turn my attention to the game design, I still am plagued with the same problems I faced some months ago. I want to work out this design as fully as I can so I know the game will provide some fun and enjoyment, or decide the ideas just aren''t enough and scrap it. I know I originally started this backwards - namely, I decided on a game system and look-and-feel based on an existing game and tried to make the game follow along afterwards. So finally here is where I can use some help. Assuming a player -vs- player environment, one of my problems that I foresee is, assuming my goal is to capture the opponents castle, getting into this "ping-pong" type game play where each turn would basically see control of central territory going back-and-forth with very little real progress each turn. I think this would be tiring rather quickly. But what other goal(s) could there be for this type of game in a P -vs- P mode? Another problem is that of death. In FFT, you controlled a main character throughout the game and developed his skills to a high level. You also had a number of secondary characters and creatures you could use in any given battle, and rarely would you allow for death to be the outcome of any given battle. (Frequently, you would just reload the game and start the battle over). One of the draws of the game was to see the character gain cool new spells and such. In a P -vs- P situation, death will be a regular occurrence and I don''t see how a piece would ever be developed very far before he met his death. This is the reason for my class-based experience gain. But would it be fun for a player when he really can''t get attached to his pieces because of the turnover? But I just can''t envision a way around this in a P -vs- P situation. Any thoughts? An alternative would be to create the game as a single player experience. Story and characters would then become an important focus and some of these issues would go away. But that means I would need to develop AI to replace the challenge a human opponent would provide. I just don''t know if I would realistically be capable of this. Of course, I still might have some AI requirements in a P -vs- P mode if I allowed for things such as side quests, where players could opt to battle a guardian monster for a powerful artifact instead of just another player, etc... etc... So if you creative folks out there would be willing to share your thoughts with an amateur here, I could use the help. If you wanted to visit my site, you would get a better idea where I was at the point I stopped and where all my "holes" are. I am taking nothing for granted here and given the suggestions, would easily consider a single player or multiplayer (or mixed), different goals and strategies, etc... I am completely open and welcome any ideas. If you''ve read this far, I appreciate your time and wish you all well in your endevours! - Dave

Hey Dak,
Thanks for replying and regarding art, it makes alot of sense if I get to the point where I give up. I do want to make a stab at it, though, as I am artistically inclined (or was that autistically?? ;-)).
Anyway, are there any game design suggestions you could offer regarding some of the issues I have? Even though the art is an issue, the game design itself is my more immediate and pressing need.
thanks again, Dave

Sounds like you''ve got a good idea going. Basically if you really like the game, chances are that others will too. It''s only important to consider the market if you''re planning on making decent money out of this thing.

Regarding art, I think for low-key games "stupid, cheesy-looking models" actually add to the game - but that may just be a minority opinion. If you really want something reasonable, there are actually a fair few modellers out there looking for experience, so you might want to try the ''help wanted'' forum to see if you can find one or two.

The game design itself sounds pretty solid - as long as you get the engine up and running you can tweak the details until the game plays more like you''d expect. Have you written a design doc yet? It''s probably a good idea if you haven''t - there''s some links in the ''articles and resources'' section.

btw if you want to prevent the game from being a straight battle, try to introduce some non-linearity into the game. In war games, this is often done by introducing a ''King'' or equivalent piece to each side - which if killed loses the game.

Dak,
Great advise... thanks! I am still struggling with the overall concepts such as game goal and multi vs single-player, but as soon as I am comfortable with those, I do want to nail down a reasonable design doc.
- Dave

Hey KingRuss,
You gave me some good ideas - thanks! The brew is stirring around...