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Muzikus

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Muzikus    122
Hey,the thread got closed mid post. I was going to reply and clear up somethings finally as I had some time free. I''ll put it here as I put some effort into it,and wanted to explain myself better,and make ammends somewhat. I really have contributed to that waste of time,even if not entirely without support,so I wanted to clear the air and help out a bit instead.The reasons for which I explain below. Sorry has stuff to do,and have let the posts rack up again. Thank you recent posters,I can see you''re at least taking the time to speak with relevance.
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Original post by Sandman 1. People might be more interested in your ideas if you told them what they were, rather than endlessly spouting the fact that you are an incredible designer. It doesn''t matter if you really ARE that good, no one likes a braggart. 2. Who are you to judge the ''creative talent'' of this board? How long have you actually been lurking here? I''ll bet you haven''t read a single post earlier than your join date. (except Angelstar''s post from a year ago that got mysteriously bumped) 3. If you truly ARE the greatest designer ever to grace the Earth, why not try joining in some of the discussion of peoples game projects. I would certainly appreciate the input of the greatest designer in history on my game (see the RTS thread, although you might want to check some of my older postings in order to get a better idea about my project)
1.You''re right,I know.There is little else I can do though,I can''t post my ideas,and I had very little time to find some people if I was going to get involved in a team,there''s nothing else I really could do.You are right though and I know this, which is why I''m apologising. 2.I can only judge this using my own opinion,which is fair enough.There is creative talent here,I know this,but there are also a lot of ideas which stink of faliure in my eyes.Also I''ve been coming to this site and gamasutra,flipcode e.t.c for nearly a year,but only had a reason to post,when I joined,and havn''t been watching the boards much before then.I''ve only recently felt that I''ve learnt enough skills,so as to call myself a designer. 3.You''re right again,this is what I should be doing,but like I said I just wanted to get some contacts.So I could decide on commiting to my business or making a game.I''ll get back to that later as I will probably be making an effort to join in now as situations have changed a bit and everything is a lot less chaotic. MadKeithV, sorry it''s just getting so many replies it hard to answer them all. Your other posts were well meant as well,I''ll make the effort this time. To your other post,I don''t plan to direct a team,I want to be a designer under a project lead.I can write effectivly,but it is a effort and something I''m trying to improve on.I''m a talker, anyone who knows me,knows this.I have written 2 design docs and can write,but I left school at 16 and most of my writing is limited to chat rooms e.t.c. as such I''ve aquired very bad habits. It''s a big problem and one I''m trying to remedy,but I never have a problem making people understand me in conversation.So I can get by,it''s not perfect,but I wouldn''t have most of my skills if I had worried about smaller details like that.
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Original post by MadKeithV [quote]Original post by Muzikus I am one of the best game designers you could possibly get,I don''t care if you believe me.I am ,fact.
You are not. Fact. I can name at least 5 people from these boards that I would rather give time and money to than I would you. It''s subjective,I feel I have talent far surpassing the average game designer because of my unique life.I can''t back this up,I don''t know the 5 people you refer to,all I know is that I see game after game made that I could have improved on. I know technical limitations,I understand my medium,so this is serious. That leads me to believe I must be pretty good.
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Original post by MadKeithV It is not a different matter. It is the same matter. Ideas without implementations are just ideas. They are the patent gathering dust on a forgotten shelf in a forgotten room of a forgotten company. The quote has been used before: it''s 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. You''ve only got 1% of the equation if you can''t get the ideas developed. You have no idea of the scope of technical difficulties you will find along the way of developing a game.
I understand the technical difficulties,that''s why I was looking for talented programmers.I know I have ideas that could be made now,some of you probably already have the engines. I know they could be made now,the problem is I''m a designer not a programmer.Not that one person could ever accomplish this on thier own,otherwise I''d already be doing it.So really it is a different matter.I have the designs to prove I''m good,I just lack the facilites to make it a reality.
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Original post by MadKeithV Why were you expecting e-mails? This is a discussion board, an open forum, to REPLACE the annoyance of mailing lists and e-mails. We don''t do e-mails here, we just post our ideas for everyone to pick apart and scrutinise. You seem to be unaware of the principles of the message board.
I can''t get across the complexity of myself as a person,across in just posts.In a conversation I can respond directly to questions,in realtime.Unlike this I can explain easily my background and directly address personal fears.
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Original post by MadKeithV We do. We actually discuss ideas here all the time, but you haven''t taken the time to even check. There''s amazing creative talent here, some truly gifted artists, writers, musicians, programmers and game designers. Lets name a few: Null_Pointer, Kylotan, Wavinator, Dwarfsoft, Nazrix, SunandShadow, Fantasy Edge... and those are just the first that come to mind after my absence of several months. They have all participated in prolonged, sometimes heated, many times very productive discussion on various aspects of game development. But somehow you''ve managed to miss all that. Of course we welcome enthousiastic designers, as long as they are willing to discuss design! You, however, do not seem to be.
I basically explain this above,I wish I had the time to sit here and talk shop with you all.I just couldn''t spend the time,I''m impatient and have every right to be,I just probably failed to get this across clearly.
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Original post by MadKeithV Wasting their efforts? Last time I checked, those people were very much enjoying that "wasting of their effort". And yes, there are some generic ideas here, as there are a lot of newer game designers that come here for advise. Do we shoot them down? Well, I for one try not to, I try to be constructive. I''ve also seen some pretty good ideas floating by, with some very good discussions on the technical problems surrounding those ideas.
That''s fair enough,but it''s frustrating that I have ideas that quite frankly are more complex and better thought out,yet I get flames and they get attention,just because thier ideas are generic enough to post. I don''t want anyone to go off thinking thier ideas are rubbish now or anything.I''m saying this more just to let people think. Ideas are a dime a dozen,but good ones are rare.Which is why you should come up with thousands,and dismiss the fluff,the inital idea is the least time consuming part and the most important (usually) to the success of a title,unfortunatly it requires the most creativity. Just keep at it think of designs all the time,think about your engine and take influence from everywhere,not just your fav fantasy and scifi novels. I don''t want to go off on some holier than thou thing,which is I why I never reply to posts with generic ideas,also a lot have been in help wanted section,and not just newbies but people trying to put together serious teams. This is just my advice,even the most generic ideas can work if they really are perfectly implemented but it''s harder without soemthing that makes you stand out.
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Original post by MadKeithV That''s where it falls down - most of us here don''t care much for the final mass-market appeal of what we are discussing. We''re simply talking about making games that appeal to us. You may find it a "technical impression", I just find it a highly stimulating discussion.
That''s fine,but my impression and the way I look at things is this. I want too make games till I die,I also want too make a living from games and I want people to by my titles so I can gain a reputation and produce bigger and better games. I can design anything,so what I do is come up with ideas that I know will work,and then I go about making it something really cool that I want to play. I don''t really like rpgs but I like ff7 ,zelda3 ,diablo quite a few others. I don''t like generic sports games,but I think TH is well implemented with brilliant level design and excellent controls e.t.c I can play all these games and like them a lot.So I''m more halfway between selfless and shrewd,I want too produce amazing games,that''s all I care about.I''d make a standard iso game,or a text based game or whetever,but I know ultimatly it isn''t going to do much for the company accounts. You have to make concessions as an artist if you are to be successful or you just have to like the same things as everyone else,both are true in my case. I like good well thought out games,that are new,and make me want to never put them down.That''s it.Originality isn''t even that big a deal to me,I just know it''s easier to market your game if it stands out on the shelf.
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Original post by MadKeithV What situation? I see no situation. Where''s the fire? What are "the facts"? "The facts" are your extremely limited view of what''s good and what''s not... As long as you refuse to accept that you CAN be wrong, and sometimes other people have better ideas than you do, you will never lead a team. You will never even become a significant contributor to a team, because people will simply not put up with your authoritarian attitude. If you were the one ponying up the cash, maybe, you could get a few guys to stick around long enough to produce a technically weak, mediocre game with a good premise and terrible execution (John Romero - Daikatana, case in point). This is an open community. Most of us here have no financial interest in Game Design or Development. We''re even LESS likely to put up with authoritarian "I am the best" type attitudes, especially when they are completely without backing-up from your other activity in the community.
I can accept I''m wrong,the difference is I know when I''m wrong.Hell I''ve been wrong quite a few times in this thread for starts,I can''t even begin to count the mistakes I''ve made in my life.As i''m sure many of us can. My biggest mistake in this thread has been my approach,I''m sorry. Like I said I failed to realise the fuss it would cause. I was just pissed of mostly at my own situation,indirectly caused by some of the attitude here,and felt like spouting off a bit.Hehe I''m sure I must have had a couple of brews that night,but whatever,I didn''t expect such a deal. I''m not the best .I''m just a damn talented individual, and I know it.I could be doing pretty much anything,as I''m sure most of you could.So you should know where I''m coming from. I''m not an authority on anything but myself. KedaKid, Your post is one of the best I''ve read and does really show an understanding of my situation.You''re right blow off wasn''t the best course,but I have little else to do but blow off some steam. I am asking for people really to read my brain,and that just isn''t fair.Like I said most of my conclusions where made viewing other posts.I had got myself into a closed mindset,but not towards ideas,just towards the fact that it was pretty much hopeless getting what I wanted without investing time,which I didn''t have.I also don''t mind people knowing me,because it''s very easy to turn people round once you prove them wrong. You''re right though,this isn''t mature or professional,but I really have had it with the problems in my life. I''ve done everything right,that I can do myself,but I always seem to be held back by the actions of others.I.E business,having great ideas but no way of competing with the established competition,without serious strategy. This really was just the icing on the cake.It''s hard to take,and my way of dealing with it was letting off steam,and sort of leaving a rant here,to look back at later and put in the cover of a manual or whatever. I''m not here to make everyone think I''m an asshole,I''m a very nice,laidback guy,but I have multiple serious problems in my life,and none of them ever seem to get any easier. It''s easy to lose it in the face of such adversity.
quote:
Original post by krez well, you don''t really care what any of us say...
I do as I''ve just shown;when it is relevant to me and shows an ability to read between the lines and get the big picture.
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Original post by krez here''s my quote: "i just can''t stand watching you bitch about us messing it up when you aren''t even trying yourself."
krez,I''ve tried just as hard as most of you to get my ideas made, the difference is I know my limitations,and skills. I''ve looked at writing games myself using engines,if it was possible I''d be doing it now. My main point is,yeah I''m smart,yeah I could probably learn to program.The point is why?,am I just going to learn enough to program one title then forget everything and get back to design, seems like a waste of effort to me.So I learnt most of everything else.I''ve been reading articles for nearly a year,I''ve been looking at game engines,analysing games,looking at code,understanding limitations,and techniques,learning and improving my art skills,learning directsound and folley pit stuff to go along with my intense music skills.I try,very damn hard.No one can do everything so I''ll need to work with other people either way,so programming seems like a foolish step. I realise this isn''t halfhearted,you''re either a programmer for life or you''re not,I''m not.I''d have no time for anything,I barely have enough time to write this. Krez I hope I''ve answered some of your other points above, Hehe at last someone with a sense of humour though. Don''t worry,I tinfoiled my gray matter years ago. Hehe,you b*strds you''ll never find out,it''s mine all mine. MUHAHAHA........ermmm........yes. Anyway I''ve had a lot of stuff happen the last two days,I handed in my notice for one,which means I''ve got some time to hang around while getting my plans finalised and sorting out administration factors.So I''ll be making an effort to join in and will try and help out where I can. I can''t post my ideas because some of them I''ve been working on for years,but as people have said I can come up with stuff all day,so I don''t mind giving my advice. I''m no longer really looking for people,as I''m pretty much commited to seeing my business through now,but I have things to learn still,and have some things to look at to do with the demo scene.So I''m going to be around,and things are more relaxed now (some what).So I''ll try and contribute to the community,this is really what I should have done before,but circumstances change. Now it''s an option,and quite frankly I know I have a lot to learn,and I know there are good people here.So I''ll try and improve on my troll status. A lot of you really,have got too into what I''ve said though,and should really lighten up,I honestly didn''t even really want a reply,but like I said that was stupid. Anyways hope I''ve cleared the air a bit and we can finally let this post die,like I said it was never meant to attract this much attention.....what is it 100+ now Anyway I''m open for business,so I''ll try and spead my trollish wisdom and help out the community instead of waste bandwidth this time. I am quite capable of doing the right thing,it''s just it''s often too much of an investment when dealing with so many issues,and if you have no reason not to it''s often easier to just say **** it. Anyway I''ve got to look at this damn rendering engine now,so I''m off. Peace

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eldee    122
if the thread gets closed, its usually not the
best idea to start it up again, mr christmas tree.










-eldee
;another space monkey;

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MSW    151
The problem I see with your statement of

quote:

not haveing enough time to post ideas



is that you seem to have enough time to post long winded statements...but not game design ideas, solutions, whatever...

I''m not personaly into game design...or games for the matter...for the "money"...I''m into game design for one thing only:

To design games I would like to play

as such I don''t have any problems with posting my personnel game ideas...even the ones that I have worked on for years, nor ideas that I consider to be my best...This is because, even if the idea gets ''stolen'' and a game is made from it, I have in some way achieved what I set out to do (play a game I had a hand in the design of...a game I would like to play)...and posting game design ideas allows me to get feedback from a new perspective...a perspective that isn''t limited to the views of my real life friends and family...a perspective of other designers in this field...a "new set of eyes" going over my work can find problems/solutions that I may be too blind to see (blind from being to ''close'' to the design)

that said...maybe you could critique a few of my ideas posted in other threads?...I invite you to start with my oldest and dearest game idea described in "Yet another RPG idea..." thread

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RabidOcelot    122
quote:
Original post by MSW
as such I don't have any problems with posting my personnel game ideas...even the ones that I have worked on for years, nor ideas that I consider to be my best...This is because, even if the idea gets 'stolen' and a game is made from it, I have in some way achieved what I set out to do (play a game I had a hand in the design of...a game I would like to play)...


This may be somewhat off-topic (If there was one to begin with), but that's one of the most refreshing outlooks in regard to "intellectual property" that I've ever read.

/applauds



Game: The Adventure (tm).
-------------------------


Edited by - RabidOcelot on January 14, 2002 11:16:49 PM

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Hikeeba    122
quote:
Original post by RabidOcelot

This may be somewhat off-topic (If there was one to begin with), but that''s one of the most refreshing outlooks in regard to "intellectual property" that I''ve ever read.

/applauds



And at the same time, so true.

I wanna'' ride on the pope mobile.

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Wavinator    2017
Muzikus, I can''t see this thread going anywhere. If you''d like to discuss ideas or concepts here, you''re welcome to do so (I''d recommend more concisely, btw). Otherwise, I''ll ask you to continue this rant in private.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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