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Silvermyst

Gladiators (FPM)

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First Person Melee (FPM) The player takes on the role of a Gladiator, fighting for fame and fortune... and more importantly, fighting for his (her) life. Players can choose from several different types of gameplay. Single player vs AI: The player is pitted in the arena against one or more wild animals. The animals are controlled by the computer. Single player vs Single player: The player is pitted in a one-on-one fight against another player-controlled gladiator. Multi player vs AI: A group of players team up and fight against groups of animals. The animals are controlled by the computer. Multi player vs Multi player: A group of players team up and fight against another group of player-controlled gladiators. Players can compete in different leagues, ranging from easy to hard. A starting player will usually practice his fighting skill on simple animals, then try to combat bigger animals, and eventually end up battling other players. The money earned can be used to improve equipment, purchase special training or put away into a savings account that can later be used to purchase the gladiator''s freedom (retirement). The life of a gladiator is harsh: short and very cheap. Starting gladiators will combat other players in a special mode: To The First Wound. In this mode, whoever gets to inflict the first serious wound on his opponent wins the fight. The wound can be healed and the beaten gladiator can live to fight another day. The real gladiators though will fight To The Death. In this mode, the crowd will decide if the beaten gladiator should live or not. Once the loser is helpless, the winning gladiator will stand over him, sword hovering over his victims neck and ask the crowd for a judgement. When the cheers for death overpower those for mercy, the defeated gladiator will be killed... There is no coming back from the afterlife (permanent death). No player will want to risk the life of his gladiator. But... the rewards are very high. A winning To The Death gladiator can make up to 50 times the amount of money he''d make in a To The First Wound fight. Also he will gain fame (ranking). Perhaps a skilled veteran will see his worth and provide his services to the winning gladiator, giving him a chance to practice with the best and learn some special moves. The combat engine... Well, I''m no programmer (and I''ve just about given up any hopes of ever becoming a good programmer, I''ll stick with just thinking up lame designs), but I''m sure that in a few years, sword-fighting engines will emerge that will be able to simulate the thrill of a sword fight. Of course for a gladiator game, different weapons have to be used, different armours, different techniques, different tactics. Each gladiator should have its own strengths and weaknesses. If you find that your gladiator is strong, but slow, you should put a lot of armour on him, give him a strong sword and shield and hope he has the endurance to carry the weight of all the metal during a long, hard battle. If your gladiator is fast but weak, you should put only little armour on him. Perhaps just a shoulder protector. Equip him with weapons that make use of his mobility and speed, and let him wear out his heavily armed opponents. Animals should have realistic attacks. They should stalk their prey, react with their instincts. They don''t have to be the main attraction of the game, but they should give a challenge to those players who don''t want to combat real players just yet, and to players who just want to play a quick ten-minute game without having to log on to the internet. I really think the gladiator setting is perfect for online-sword fighting. A lot of the rules can be taken straight from history. Gladiators thousands of years ago were adored by fans like the super-athletes of today. They had fanclubs and even had their own action-figures. Often, they started out as slaves, being forced to fight. But eventually being a gladiator became popular even to the upper class of the society. Some slave-gladiators chose to remain gladiators even when they had made enough money to purchase their freedom. If that can be carried over to the computer, the addiction to the adrenaline rush of the fight that made real people risk their very lives, you can count on me being in the front lines every single day, fighting till I''m bloody, desperately trying to stay alive...

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quote:
Original post by Silvermyst
Once the loser is helpless, the winning gladiator will stand over him, sword hovering over his victims neck and ask the crowd for a judgement. When the cheers for death overpower those for mercy, the defeated gladiator will be killed...

Meaning you can''t choose to spare someone''s life and create more drama? You should watch Gladiator again.

Also, you should include fights To The Pain. See The Princess Bride for a full description of this. Okay, I''m not entirely serious...

[ GDNet Start Here | GDNet FAQ | MS RTFM | STL | Google ]
Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

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My problem is that Melee never seems to work in First Person. Rune tried it, but it was horrible, no skill really.

Maybe with the same concept from Max Payne, Bullet Time, it could be done. Someone here posted about Sword Time, should search for his post.

Otherwise, how can you really enjoy the melee? You need to parry, dodge, block, hit critical points etc.

R

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OLUSEYI:

Well, I wanted to make it so players can choose to just watch ongoing games as well. One of the main goals of the gladiators was to prove to the Romans that they were brave. For if a mere slave could be brave, surely a freeborn person could be brave. Surely they would be able to fight at the front line for the glory of Rome.

If a gladiator fights bravely, the crowd will reward him with his life in case he falls victim to defeat.

When two players face off, and both are just running around the entire match, trying to avoid getting injured instead of just fighting, the crowd will not be pleased.

Players watching the fight will not be pleased. They will give their verdict: KILL! No mercy.
(in game terms, they will click the ''no mercy'' button and their vote will be added to the total. Depending on the results the sound of the audience''s screams in the stadium -will be heard by fighter and onlooker alike- will either be ''live'' or ''die'' or something like that)

Of course the gladiator himself has the final say, but displeasing a crowd is not a good idea, because that will probably mean a lower payout. And perhaps the audience will remember your name and not show any mercy for you in your next fight, might you lose...

(Hm, have to find a way to prevent grief players from just entering the ''kill'' verdict every time. Although... I bet a lot of people in ancient Rome just yelled ''kill'', no matter if the gladiator fought bravely or not)

Also... I''ll see if I can watch Princess Bride again

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RUBE:

I agree. Melee in first person is hard. But I think it''s easier to come up with a functional First Person Melee system than with a functional computer role playing game. I''ll take my chances with melee...

PS Bullet-time doesn''t work with a multi-player system.
If you need more time to react during melee combat, the entire combat system needs to be slowed down. That''s feasible, but might make it less interesting to watch. Still, it''s something to keep in the back of one''s mind. I wouldn''t mind a bit to watch a slowed down combat, as long as the added tactic and skill it offers provides a boosted entertaining value.

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this sounds neat (i would probably play it), but keep in mind that gladiators were slaves who were forced to fight to the death for the entertainment of the rich. so, you might be able to get better weapons and armor if you were good (as your owner would know you are a good money maker in the colleseum(sp?) and want you well equipped), but there are no "great rewards" other than living another day and maybe eventually being freed from slavery.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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KREZ:

That's actually not true.

Sure, in the beginning it was the slaves who were forced to fight and entertain their masters.

But, being a gladiator became so populair amongst the freeborn people, that young men (and women!) partook in the gladiator fights. Augustus himself had to at one point put some limits on the rules (he made it so only men older than 20 I think could become a gladiator, and only women older than 25).

It was not uncommon for a gladiator who was rewarded freedom to return to the arena and fight, because they were accustomed to the fame and fortune it brought them.

Even a simple gladiator would PER fight make 10 times more than the average Roman made in an entire year.

Good gladiators made even 5 times more than that (5x10, so fifty times a year's salary).

Also, once a gladiator became good, his chances of dying diminished as the people who ran the show realized all to well that they should let no harm come to those who were populair.

Edited by - Silvermyst on January 15, 2002 1:51:02 PM

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quote:
Original post by Silvermyst
That''s actually not true.
Sure, in the beginning it was the slaves who were forced to fight and entertain their masters.
But, being a gladiator became so populair amongst the freeborn people, that young men (and women!) partook in the gladiator fights.

really? well, thanks for correcting me; history is not my forte, although i will gladly ramble about it anyways i learn something new every day...
quote:
Even a simple gladiator would PER fight make 10 times more than the average Roman made in an entire year.

i bet the guys who ran it still made money off it though, since they only had to pay half the gladiators (the ones who lived)

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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I read that they used to fill the arena with water and have ''sea battles'', maybe you could include something like that?
Or what about extra enviromental challenges, like spikes on the wall which you can throw your opponent against or tigers (ala Gladiator)

- DarkIce

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DRACOLICHE:

Actually, some used to have nicknames like Violet and Pearl, anything to lull the opponent into believing they''d have an easy victory.

DARKICE:

The experts are divided on the ''sea battle'' issue. Certainly at a later stage these battles would''ve been impossible, because the Colosseum had underground areas right underneath the arena (they stored wild animals there and had all sorts of surprise mechanisms -like the ones you see in the movie Gladiator, where they have trapdoors etc-) which would''ve flooded if the arena were to be filled with water.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
The History Channel just had a show about the Colesseum. The show claimed that the very first emperor had a huge 100 day opening ceremony. On the third day, the arena was flooded, and they had a miniature sea battle, with crocodiles in the water.

Two years later, the Colesseum was remodelled, and all of the flooding apparatus was removed. The new emperor wanted a spectacle (graphics over gameplay even back then!), with surprises and thrills. This was when all of the elevators and trapdoors were added.

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Sounds like a good idea,
I like simulation games if they are something you can''t really do.I think you''ve got a lot of things well sorted out,and have kept the gameplay in mind.Here are a few things though I think you should look at.
1.1st person,it''s really going to look wrong IMO.I think 3rd person would suit a game like this.
2.I don''t really get how you are handling death.The easiest way I can think of is having short streetfighter style fights for multiplay,and then having a game mode where you fight with 1 life.You can save,and the way it works is,(I''m not sure if you said or had this in mind.)The player fights in progressive battles as you said,if the player loses his rating with the crowd goes down.The worse you lose the worse the rating,eventually if you lose enough points,they will have you dispensed.That''s where saving comes in,so you can make it hard and you have to continue working your way up.
3.Games like this should always have lots of options in my view,
I like the points people made about trapdoors,and maybe you get wilder crazier animals as options for multiplay fights e.t.c as options you can select.
4.I like the points about armour and weapons,this should be well thought out.You should try and balance everything and get them just right,maybe the player can spend a lot of money on some really strong armour for fights, but of course it takes off his savings for freedom.
5.I also really like the points for signature moves,and I think you are on the right track with the combatants,with differing speed and power e.t.c.
This is all a bit out of the book,but in truth if your goal is to make a good multiplay,singleplay fighting game this is the way to do it IMO.

The reason I like this idea,is that you can add new elements,
with animals,and big group melee fighting.Multiplay if done well could make this quite good,wrestling games were always a good idea but never quite enough.I really think if it had lots of elements in the levels,like pits and things you can generally use,that would be good.Actually now I think about it another one would be the usual free weapons you can find in the level,but if done they shouldn''t be spawned or whatever,instead there should be a few different class weapons that you can pickup if you drop yours.
Like spears or axes or something.Could be used at different points in a match,but you have to drop your main weapon which is your sword I guess ,which could be the best all round weapon,so you''ll have to run back and switch if need be.

Games like this are all about balancing,to do them well you need to have everything done very well.Controls I see as the biggest problem,I think should you go for simple moves and linking combos.So you can do realistic parrys,e.t.c, that would be good if done right,as many games have lacked this.IMO this isn''t really my sort of game but if done right it could be very good.
It needs expanding on the whole death issue,and the career aspects e.t.c,maybe I''ve got you wrong?.The thing I always like about these games though are they are very playable,it just needs enough fresh aspects to make the idea work in a game setting.Anyway it''s late I just thought it was a pretty strong idea,and thought I''d give a bit of input,I''ll check back later.

P.S I''ve gone over your post again,I realise what I''m saying is different,If I''m right what you meant was the players fight mostly with AI and in to the first wound fights,then they can choose for the death fights.The problem I have with this is I just don''t understand how this works with online players,how are you handling death?.WHat happens when you die online,you restart and lose all your money?.Explain more cause I''m confused.
Anyway night

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Someone mentioned my sword-time concept: Symphonic''s Sword-Time

I could be way off, but you seem to be going for a server side player character storage method. Perhaps something along the lines of Diablo II. Just keep the thought in mind, storing characters on the server will let you calculate rankings more easily. You could be much more strong armed about loosing in a to-the-death match.

Don''t use first person, the attraction of fighting games lies in the player watching his/her character beating the crock out of another character, and it just doesn''t look as cool in FP.

Consider giving players a daily salary depending on ranking (rank decays during time spent not fighting), instead of rewards on a per-fight basis.



George D. Filiotis
Are you in support of the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide? You should be!

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MUZIKUS:

When your gladiator dies, he''s dead. That''s it. Perhaps he can have another gladiator in training to take over his possessions, but I''d rather have all his possessions go into a pile, for sale for the highest bidder.

The whole point of the game is that IF you risk the life of your gladiator, you CAN gain huge rewards. But, if you lose, you risk the life of your fighter.

The ''To The Death'' gameplay mode really should be a survival of the fittest mode. If you''re not absolutely great, you won''t make it. This is the final stage of the game though, so players will have a lot to do other than ''to the death'' games.
But yes, dead is dead. Two fighters square off, only one will remain standing. It is important to really know the limits of your gladiator before you attempt a ''to the death'' fight. You have to know how to control him well, have to know his every weakness and strength.

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SYMPHONIC:

Yeah, I think server-side storage is a must.

I''ll rethink the First Person view, but that''s not even my main concern. I think the combat engine is something completely out of my league anyway. I stick to designing the system around it.
Personally, I like the look of Blade Of Darkness, where the camera is positioned a little behind and above the fighter. This gives you a good perspective on the battle. Of course, preferably, you''d give the players the option to create their own custom view.

I''m still unsure how to deal with rewards for fighting. Basically, the rewards should be used for mainly buying better equipment. So all the fighters would need is just enough to upgrade their weapons and armour every now and then. Perhaps a daily salary combined with a per-fight bonus would do. Then again, personally, I''d prefer to look a little further into how exactly real gladiators made their money, how much etc, and how they spent it.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
When i read your post about the types of battle to take place, the game i imagined was basically a 3d fighter game, ala DoA3 ect...

just thought that it would work a little better than a FP veiw point...

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just a thought...
perhaps you can have weapons/armor more realistic by having them sustain damage, and possibly break or at least get dull when used. this way, the sword and helmet a player bought for his first battle will not last the rest of his career (unless it is a short career )... so, the gladiators might need to buy weapons and armor for each fight, or at least pay to have them repaired; it won''t be that generic-RPG situation where you save up your money for a long long time to get a sword that is slightly better. also, you can allow the players to pick up loose weapons in the arena during the fight (as someone else mentioned). so, you don''t have to worry about the big money they are earning; unless they are really lucky, they will have to spend most of it simply breaking even as far as weapons and armor go, and maybe a bit more for a rest and recovery at the local hospital and/or brothel...
also, this way a character''s success can be ranked according to how much money they have earned and saved (as well as staying alive) as well as popularity (you can have fiercest gladiator, most kills, most popular, big money-winner, et cetera).

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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KREZ:

Item decay: YES! This is a must. And yes, weapons laying around in the arena are definitely part of the game. Opponents should be able to disarm you, break your weapon etc, and then you should just get a new weapon asap. That''s why it''s important for every gladiator to not just be proficient in the weapon you favor, but also in a variety of other weapons, just in case you lose yours.

And yes, a gladiator game just screams for all sorts of rankings. And of course the greatest of all time will be immortalized on statues displayed around the Colosseum (even if they die fighting).

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quote:
Original post by Silvermyst
And yes, a gladiator game just screams for all sorts of rankings. And of course the greatest of all time will be immortalized on statues displayed around the Colosseum (even if they die fighting).

personally, i''d rather be represented in the stars, like Hector and Hercules
maybe that''s only for the ones who are the greatest of the greatest...

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

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