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Facehat

Games too long?

22 posts in this topic

Recentely I was thinking about something which I''ve been considering for a while: some games are simply too long. People don''t like sitting through 4 hour movies, so why do companies think that 80000000 hours of gameplay is neccasarily a good thing? Obviousely players deserve to get a lot for there money -- but I think all but the most hardcore players will eventually become bored with games that take too long to complete. I''d love to here some thoughts on the subject. --TheGoop
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i couldn''t agree with you more then this. Take half-life the real world is totally cool but the other world is too long so i stopped. Internet is the magic word!

SigwarthSoft
sigwarthsoft@hotmail.com
icq#: 62538030
Maastricht, Netherlands
Stefan Sigwarth
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Well, I can agree that it''s annoying when a game gets repititive and the same thing over and over (same with movies, i like them, but i don''t like watching 7 hours of them). But, i believe if the game changes AND it still follows the storyline, then it''s worth playing.
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I could not disagree more,
First of all,new comercial games cost 8 or nine times as much as going to a movie, and two to three times as much as buying a movie. So there should be more content in a game, in order to get your moneys worth at all. Personally If I bought a new $60 game and beat it in half an hour, or even in one day I would be royally upset. In order to make a game worth buying or even just downloading there must be some challenge that takes more than an afternoon or some value that makes it worth playing again and again. In essence this is what all games must seek, some bit of multiplayer or plot twisting or just damn cool graphics taht will make people want to play. As a random plus, marshmallow duel is the smallest game I have yet found that never get''s tiring after playing it for hours and hours.

-fnj
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I''m not saying games should be that short. I too would be pissed off if I beat the game in a day and there were no plot twists. What I''m saying is that games which take 1.5-2 months to beat are too long. By then I''m usually sick of the game.

Note: I''m talking single player here, multiplayer is a different story.

--TheGoop
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I think to a degree this can be dependant on the style of game. I have recently been playing Baldur''s Gate which is great fun. That goes on quite a while, but your characters are continually developing and it follows an actual plot which is (reasonably) interesting. I thought that was worth playing for a long time, it was well developed.

I would have to agree with a previous post on Half-Life though. Whilst the alien section at the end might indeed be plot-related, the game was clearly repetitive and losing interest by that point.

In the end I think there is a place for all action games that maybe do not have so much plot and could be shorter in lenght (and preferably cheaper!!) but you can have some great games that DO take a long time to complete and still are worth every penny.

Woop
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I''ll agree with Woop. I just finished TombRaider III and it took me over a month to finish. The thing that kept me with it was that the scenery kept changing, I was always trying to figure out how to do something, and the plot progressed as I went along. There were a few places where there was to much redundancy. Especialy the places where you''re trying to get the right combinations of switches, or figuring out how to get through a maze. But for the most part, I think it was worth the $50, or whatever I payed for it.

E:cb woof!
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I don''t have a problem with a game that has lots of game play.

What I have a problem with is games that don''t provide good stopping points. I don''t always have the time to sit and play for four hours at a sitting, and some games just don''t lend themselves to short sittings (45-60 minutes).

The other problem with having lots of gameplay time is that it all needs to be fun. Once it stops being fun, once the player is saying, "Been there, done that", then it just get''s boring or monotonous, and the player begins to think the game is too long.
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If the game is really fun, and it takes you into the story, it can''t be too long. Final Fantasy VII, was too short for me. I wanted to beat it, but when I did, I felt that there should have been more.

Domini
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i love playing aventure/action games but many of them are ust worthless, many games these days are to repetitive(figuring key combinations, puzzles, and stuff that does not make sense, ) these days. also who came up with the idea to guive puzzles without hints in games!!!
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Agreed, LaughingD - there needs to constantly be options to save your progress, so you can play the game in little 15-min increments.

Consider this - if you had to choose between a game that was short, but gave you many options (like say, for an RPG, many different points where the plot diverged), or a game that was long, but didn't give you much freedom (i.e., FFVII, where you basically progressed along the same plot no matter what you did), which would you choose?

I'm thinking I would rather have a "flexible" game than a "long" game, but that's just me.

Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios - home of Quaternion, 2000 GDC Indie Games Fest Finalist!
www.spin-studios.com

Edited by - mason on 2/8/00 5:05:25 PM
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lemme get this straight. You''d actually rather finish a game quickly and be done with it then get tons of hours of enjoyment from it? Seems to me i buy games for something to do when there isn''t anything to do, not to just beat them and put the in the closet.
i agree that sitting there for 4 hours or whatever straight can be a bit much but who says you have to? you can always close it and start again later.
-my own two cents-
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I think what mason was saying is that he'd rather have a game that was highly replayable than a one-shot drag-yourself-through-to-the-end deal.
. I finished FFVII on my friends Playstation two years ago [with two of each Master Materia ] and was disapointed with the storyline and the lack of desire to replay it for its core game. Still, I bought the PC version [sorry, my only console is an Atari 2600.]
. Why? It wasn't for the side-quests [there weren't nearly enough, especially compared to III.] It was for the mini-games. Sounds stupid, but they can be quite addicting. My point is, a game can dissapoint it's first time through, but it doesn't nescesarilly mean it lacks replay value.

Edited by - SonicSilcion on 2/8/00 5:52:36 PM
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I rather like the puzzles that don''t have directions. Half the fun is trying to figure out what you''re suppose to do. After I finished TRII I played it again using no weapon other then her hand guns. To get anything under water, I''d have it follow me to a ledge, climb out, and shoot into the water. It was quite chalanging. But you have to make yourself do it, especialy when you have weapons all around you after killing people.

E:cb woof!
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I enjoy games that offer substantial entertainment regardless of how much game-play is offered (Within reason). I think that it is an issue of quality and quantity. As long as there are new areas to explore or new experiences, I really would enjoy a long, epic game. However, if the game is short but I recieved full dose of entertainment value, then I would mark it as a good game.

It could be considered like reading a good story. After you finish the story, if it leaves you with a feling of WOW then it is a success; be it a novel or a short story.
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what i enjoy the most in a game is non-linearity. i don''t mind (and in fact quite enjoy) playing the same game many times if it provides for many different things happening. unfortunately, not many games provide this...at least, not as many as i''d like.

what i''d really like to see is a game like Daggerfall...only not quite as buggy or random.


aaron
-----------------------------
LeChuck! GRRRRRR.
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The longer the game, the better! The longer it is, the longer it lasts and keeps me entertained for a LONG time! I look forward to the days of full interactive online RPGs, caus ethey offer endless amounts of playtime the future will indeed rawk

Peace Love Empathy
Kurt
E-Mail-ttlnirvana@aol.com
IRC-y2Kurt
AIM-MadeTheBedIDieIn

*Another day in a boring town with the same old crowd*
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I can see why some people said that half - life was too long in some respects. I found that too. i think there are key ingredients to making a good game

1. story line - without it a single player game is definitly doomed.
2. replay value - marshmellow duel is an awsome game, even though it doesnt have fancy graphics or fancy weapons. there was a certain randomness to it, but even without it, the matches would almost never end the same
3. slower learning curve - half life had a pretty steep learning curve. a single land mine and you where toast. it is good to let the player get the feel of the game before you have him/her fight a 50ft high boss that is nearly invincible

games need to be of a medium length or the player gets bored stiff or gets sick of the game. a game that is too short can dissapoint the player. seeing a 1 hour movie is not as fun as watching a 2 hour movie with a really involving plot. watching the ten commandments or the star wars trilogy in one sitting is just plain nuts.

people play games for entertainment. entertainment should should be fun, or involving. if i ever make a game, i will be sure to have a medium lenght plot, a slower learning curve, and have the game for 45 minute sittings, not steady game play.

(even marshmellow duel could get munontenous if you played it for 4 hours straight)

- Moe -

ps you can get marshmellow duel at www.downloads.com under the arcade heading (i think)

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Commercial break:
------------
I couldn't help noticing some of you enjoy marshmallow duel. Well for me, marshmallow duel is the only _foreign_ "simple" game that I've really enjoyed playing.

That's why I must inform you about Finnish cave-flyer genre, which I think you'll find extremely amusing if you enjoyed mduel. Try downloading wings or rocket chase (I recommend Wings).

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~mvirpioj/download/wings140.zip

ftp://ftp.finnishgames.com/pub/fgames/games/action/rcha160.zip

I have played Wings hundreds of hours..at least twice more than mduel! And I still play Wings once in a while.

Of course there are over a hundred free finnish quality games more at:
http://www.finnishgames.com/
--------------

Edited by - Hans on 2/11/00 1:06:34 PM
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In my opinion, a game should be long, as long as it''s not pointlessly "stretched" with stupidities. These can be repetition (like in an RPG having to fight identical fights 1000 times or going through any maze in any game at all), not being able to save where you want or the game being overly difficult in a stupid way, forcing the player to load over and over again or not being able to skip any cutscenes (FF7 is a bad example of this, and I''ve heard FF8 is even worse).
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Hmm... I don''t agree with original topic at all ! It''s even better that you get bored for game than that game is over too fast !
Only reason why I don''t buy games like Rainbow 6 and Hidden&Dangerous, is that I have borrowed both games, and played trough in 3 - 5 days (Rainbow 6 took longer)... and Just thinking that I would have payed 40-50$ for game this short... TERRIBLE. Adventure Games (I mean those old fashion) were excating, good, and long games, that took about week to play, and even if it didn''t give you any replay value, it was something much better than three movies

Unreal Tournament is again good example: It would have been so much better game if it would had way more singleplayer (heheee !) missions, but now I just use it to practise some times, and basically got bored to whole game... Too bad that I don''t have good connection to play on the internet.
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When people buy games, they know if it''s going to be long or not or be repetitive or not. I think if everyone just bought the length of game that suited them, then there wouldn''t even be an issue here.
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