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why dose the vieo game industry suck? PART 2

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For those of you who thinks this post is the opinion of one person, it’s not. Those of you who have disagreed with the post you have disagreed with the opinion of many game players. In this post METAL HEAD represents the thoughts and opinions of people I have talk to and read, friends and their friends, magazines, internet sites, posts and reviews etc. Understand this, people don’t owe you anything nor do they have to do what you say (don’t buy pirated software, don’t use emulators, don’t make copies, etc) and because it’s the law dose not matter. There is a saying, the customer is always right. Game players do you a favor for buying your products; you don’t do them any favors. You (people in the industry hoe make games) have to prove to them why they should buy your games (not pirated copies) and give you good reviews. Try to listen to what game players want. The lack of your understanding shows that you are ignorant or you don’t care. Like Metalica with Napster you can’t really stop it and the video game industry will change, whether you like it or not. Why do some of you think that anyone can program, afford expensive hardware & software, make their own company, get a job at a game company and can afford to get into one of those expensive and difficult to get in schools (where ever they may be) for the game industry? Ones again more ignorance. I am getting really annoyed at people changing the subject to spelling and grammar. Who cares; I don’t give a shit whether the spelling and grammar are incorrect. What maters are if you comprehend the meaning of the reply, GOT IT.? So don’t change the fucking subject again!! What I think: I personally don’t think all games suck. It’s a matter of opinion, but I do think most games can be improved. Some people like long games that you play only ones, and some people like shorter games with a high replay value. Games should have that option to give people a choice. Also people that want to edit a game (change the boards, characters or add something) should have the choice to. Why should they? Because they paid for it that’s why! Give them more bang for their buck, give them a reason to buy your game and not a pirated copy. There is a site I found that I think everyone should see. JTF.ORG PS: Because some ass holes are flaming in this post is no a reason to close it. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS, CENSORSHIP ? What ever happened to freedom of speech? I did not get a chance to reply! Sorry for the foul language, but I can not express the emotion of my words in any other way. Edited by - metal head on January 29, 2002 5:51:27 PM Edited by - metal head on January 29, 2002 8:02:10 PM

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Well, I read your post and managed to summarize it up to...

"Your game better be the best thing on the planet if you expect anyone to pay for it rather than pirating it."

Do you just shove a steak in the grocery store into your coat if the due date is getting close. After all, it''s not all that fresh is it? It should be your right to steal if you don''t want to pay for something. Cool.

I''ll have to call my wife and tell her I''ll be home late tonight. I''m going down to the store to lift a few programs.

:>

Isn''t being Evil so Good?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Well, since you are not wanting replies from people "hoe" are criticizing your horrible grammar, let me just say that i read your post (several times actually) and it just doesn''t make any damned sense. Kinda like my highschool history teacher, i''m sure there was some useful information there somewhere, but it was too covered up in mindless drivel.

And referring to yourself in the third person...

In this post METAL HEAD represents the thoughts and opinions of people I have talk to and read, friends and their friends, magazines, internet sites, posts and reviews etc.

...well, i think i would go see someone for that. i''m pretty sure they have pills that will help.

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And then they'd close this one...

Game Design is not for you to just rant about the "state of the industry" as you (mis)perceive it. It is for constructive critical analysis, discussion and the promulgation of techniques to advance the field of game development. It is a proactive board, as opposed to a soapbox for hot-headed reaction.

Your post contained no well-thought plan of action, no intellectual analysis, no incisive insights and no statistics to back up what appeared to be your personal opinion. What do we care about the "thoughts and opinions of people I have talked to and read, etc"? We talk and read too, and we don't hold your opinion. Perhaps if you knew how hard it is to make a game (or to design one properly, for all the aspirants), you'd be more lucid.

Finally, this is a private board and therefore you must abide by the rules of the site operators. Those operators (hereinafter "staff") have invested in certain individuals whom they have deemed reasonably responsible (hereinafter "moderators") the power to close, delete, move and edit the contents of the message boards. They are not answerable to you; ergo, this is not a free speech issue. You have very few rights.

Furthermore, there is an FAQ for the site in general as well as FAQs for each of the topical boards. If you read the FAQ for this board, you will find the rules governing discussion here as well as how to complain to the moderator about board actions.

Anyway, you have nothing of interest to say.
quote:
Why do some of you think that anyone can program, afford expensive hardware & software, make their own company, get a job at a game company and can afford to get into one of those expensive and difficult to get in schools (where ever they may be) for the game industry?

Let's see... If you already have a computer, all you need is a compiler/development environment with which to code, and tools with which to create content. There are many free/cheap tools all over the internet (Dev-C++, MinGW, BCL, MilkShape3D...), so it doesn't cost that much to get into development (of the tools I just mentioned, MilkShape is the only one that actually costs anything - and only $20). So it would seem you are the ignorant one.

Oh, and spelling, grammar and punctuation are important, especially in game design. For example, you consistently spell "how" as "hoe" - typo? Then you type "Hoe" again instead of "Who". You're illiterate, you're ignorant, you're belligerent, you're rude.

You aren't worth listening to.

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Heres a little industry secret:
Game developers are the biggest pirates of them all.

They steal ideas, algorithms, plot lines, music, art, catch phrases...

Name some memorable game characters:
Duke Nukem = Ash from Evil Dead
Mario\Luigi = An almost offensive italian stereotype.
J.C Denton = An obvious ripoff of Neo from the matrix (who was most likley ripped off of a gibson novel)
Every Final Fantasy Character: Their names and appearance have changed to protect the innocent, but the same "character" of the person keeps appearing in every game.

Ever wondered why every game pitch you hear starts off with: "Well its like X, but with Y''s twist, and Z''s graphics, and A''s plot!"

Not only do game developers pirate games, they go an extra step and slap their name on it and try to make a buck off it.

Remember the whole deal with hasbro? Appearently according to gamedev, the game industry cant survive without the right to blatent ripoffs!

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OH MY GOD, I''m sorry but there''s nothing I can comment on except spelling and grammer. I almost died laughing looking at all the errors. Sorry man but it doesn''t help to get all upset about this issue. And spelling/grammer does count if you''re trying to program. Oh and most of the game developers here are indie so you''re really talking to the wrong crowd. Besides what the game players want IS expressed im this forum (Game Design) there are quite a few topics about what makes games fun and interesting.

First you said its not just your opinion then in the 4th paragraph you say it is your opinion...I''m confuzzled. *Sigh* hope this doesn''t look like too much of a flame. We all have stuff we have to get off our chest sometimes.

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quote:
They steal ideas, algorithms, plot lines, music, art, catch phrases...


This happens to be the one thing that makes humans what they are: they copy those that have gone before them, learning from the mistakes made, and improving on the ideas their forefathers had.

Back to the topic, although I don''t want to spend too much time debating with people who don''t listen anyway...

quote:
Also people that want to edit a game (change the boards, characters or add something) should have the choice to. Why should they? Because they paid for it that’s why! Give them more bang for their buck, give them a reason to buy your game and not a pirated copy.


Did somebody put a gun to your head before you bought your product?

I wonder if you follow this same principle in your daily life. Do you do extra things at work, things you''re not required to do, but things that will give your company more bang for the bucks they pay you to work?

Do you do extra things for your homework? (not quite sure that you are part of the working society yet, for if you would be you would quickly realize that the prices of games aren''t all that high if you consider the quality playing time they can provide you with... I''ll assume you''re still in school) Do you give your teacher more bang for the time they invest in you in class?

Capitalism works. Supply and demand works. Feedback works. If you as a game designer make a game that stinks, people will not go out to buy it and future products will suffer the same fate. If you make a game that''s good, people will buy it. Simple as that.

Sure, you can add all sorts of nice extras to your game, but that''s just to distinguish your game from games that are in the same quality category as your game is. And you DO have to code all those extras, so yes, as a designer you WILL have to spend extra time on it. And if the price remains the same, logic learns that you''ll get less buck for your bang as a designer if you give in to all the demands of gamers.

And will it ever be enough? Will gamers ever stop wanting more?

No, because most of them (like me) can think up dozens of cool game ideas and ''wouldn''t it be cool if'' theories, and they''ll never going to take out the time to work on those ideas themselves.

OF COURSE games can be improved. OF COURSE companies will give players as much as they can possibly give. That''s business. To think that designers are holding back on us is silly. They know darn well that the more demands of the gamers they can fulfill, the more they will sell, the more they will make.


quote:
give them a reason to buy your game and not a pirated copy


I simply have no respect for anyone who even considers using pirated copies. If you like the product, buy it. If you don''t like it, don''t use it. If you can''t afford it, tough luck.

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quote:
Heres a little industry secret:
Game developers are the biggest pirates of them all.

They steal ideas, algorithms, plot lines, music, art, catch phrases...


Aw heck, the problem is far worse than that: if Sophocles were alive today, he''d SUE I tell you! He''d SUE!

Right after he desperately clawed his way out of his grave of course...

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You know what they say about flamers, they''re flaming you know what!

And for those of you that have insulted me, nice try but you''re not going to make me stoop down to your level (and a low level it is). It''s people like you who turn posts to crap! It''s not my fault that you can not handle sensitive questions.

So in the words of Ted Nugent "KISS MY ASS"

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quote:
Original post by varelse
[quote]Heres a little industry secret:
Game developers are the biggest pirates of them all.

They steal ideas, algorithms, plot lines, music, art, catch phrases...


Aw heck, the problem is far worse than that: if Sophocles were alive today, he''d SUE I tell you! He''d SUE!

Right after he desperately clawed his way out of his grave of course...





Umm, if Sophocles were alive, he wouldn''t have to climb out of a grave....


''I sure could use a vacation from this bullshit three ring circus sideshow of freaks...'' - TOOL
[TheBlackJester]

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quote:
Original post by Metal Head
(people in the industry hoe make games)


We make games with farm implements? Darn, I''ve been doing it wrong all along.



They''re coming for you!

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Heres a little industry secret:
Game developers are the biggest pirates of them all.

They steal ideas, algorithms, plot lines, music, art, catch phrases...

Name some memorable game characters:
Duke Nukem = Ash from Evil Dead
Mario\Luigi = An almost offensive italian stereotype.
J.C Denton = An obvious ripoff of Neo from the matrix (who was most likley ripped off of a gibson novel)
Every Final Fantasy Character: Their names and appearance have changed to protect the innocent, but the same "character" of the person keeps appearing in every game.

Ever wondered why every game pitch you hear starts off with: "Well its like X, but with Y''s twist, and Z''s graphics, and A''s plot!"

Not only do game developers pirate games, they go an extra step and slap their name on it and try to make a buck off it.

Remember the whole deal with hasbro? Appearently according to gamedev, the game industry cant survive without the right to blatent ripoffs!


I bet this "industry secret" is from someone outside the industry, who obviously believes the game industry is different and operates with its own legislation, disconnected from the rest of society.

We steal ideas? Well, that''s just horrible isn''t it? You know, most "ideas" (not sure what you mean by that really - concepts?) are kinda hard to copyright you see.

Algorithms? Hm, code is either: (1) proprietary secret technology, (2) available for licensing or (3) free. Besides, as Silvermyst pointed out, to develop one must utilize research and results achieved by others. Do you think we should reinvent the wheel for every car we wish to make?

Plot lines? Imagine copyrighted plot lines...

Music? No we don''t.

Art? Again, no we don''t.

Catch phrases? What?

"Well its like X, but with Y''s twist, and Z''s graphics, and A''s plot!"
Harsh statement but ok, I see your point. Anyway, how do you come up with fresh material? Most people are inspired by the work of others and its usually the best way to express it in terms of previous work before people can see it for themselves, in order to make them understand what its about.


"Not only do game developers pirate games, they go an extra step and slap their name on it and try to make a buck off it."

Holy crap! People work for years on their games - spending sweat, time and money - and just because some titles have similarites you blatantly accuse developers of just pirating, adding an extra touch and slap their name on it!
You could not be farther from the truth my friend.



As for METAL HEAD: yes your head must be made of metal.

I think threads starting out like that should be closed -
they don''t add anything to make gamedev a better place.









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quote:
Original post by Metal Head
nice try but you''re not going to make me stoop down to your level.



would that be the level where you get some cheap/free software, start learning and actually start doing your own games?

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The grafics in the crap Chuckie Egg game are suck! Do u programmers think people will pay for that @#%!#$^!
Yor so stupid. The nme AI is like from the 80''s!!! I''m not paying for it! I will play it some more all day. Die!

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quote:
Try to listen to what game players want.

Although I am usually against "capitalism as democracy", computer owners, and especially computer gamers, tend to have disposable income. They vote with their wallets. If they didn''t want clones, they wouldn''t buy them by the bucketload.

Besides, why should developers listen? It''s up to them what they develop, not the customer.

quote:
Why do some of you think that anyone can program, afford expensive hardware & software, make their own company, get a job at a game company and can afford to get into one of those expensive and difficult to get in schools (where ever they may be) for the game industry? Ones again more ignorance.

How is this at all relevant?

Again, make a point, or shut up. This is a forum for discussing game design, not a soapbox for your ranting. Your right to free speech (a) isn''t an international right, and (b) does not compel the organization of your choice (in this case, GameDev.net) to publuish your speech.

If you have anything constructive to say, then start a new thread with a post containing some real content.

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