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Beating Boredom

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Hi guys, I was just wondering, as a newbie myself, how you beated boredom while programming in C++? Did you find it boring at the start? I mean with only seeing that old win32 Console window? And another thing, when you were learning about functions, classes statements etc, did you learn it so you didn''t need to refer to books or did you understand the basics and move on? The reason I ask is that i find myself reading chapters about functions again and again and still not being able to reproduce and write them myself without the aid of books! Am I doing something wrong? Thankz for everyones help, ----------------------- This space is for sale -----------------------

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well - I''m still a OpenGl newbie but I''m programming c++ since 2 years and before that I was prgramming turbo pascal (someone remembers 80x25 screens ?? )

well first you have to have fun with programming languages - nothing is more bad than doing something you don''t like as a hobbie (or even worse as job)
so when you don''t have fun with programming WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE ???

but I can''t say I even have ever fun - but when I don''t have fun but still want to programm (because a problem starts to piss me off) then I hear a bit music - 5 gigs of music on my HD - mainly Nirvana. (someone still remembers Kurt Cobain ???)

get Music/ hear music when you are bored

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Classes, functions, etc will become second nature at some point so thie will reduce boredom induced from referring to books. As for using the console window, well it depends on what your using it for. Try challenging yourself a bit. If you can do the simple stuff ,eg a palindrome checker, try improving it to use dynamic storage or vectors. If this doesn''t float your boat then try other things, maybe a menu system to store book data and read/write to file. The possibilities are endless...

You''d be surprised how much you can get into it with just the console window, I still use it whenever possible for testing classes.

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I'm almost a bit scared to post that....

I have begun programming in turbo pascal (yes Sigma I remember 80x25 screens and Kurt Cobain, too - none but Metallica is a better band ) and quickly advanced to Delphi.

Okay this forum is full of C++ programmers but Delphi is great in motivating you. It's easy to achieve first results and you don't have to care much for the boring stuff. I don't have to register window classes and do lines of api calls to get a win32 application running.
And it's a prejudice that Delphi limits you compared to C++. It's not even slower.

However the programming basics are the same in every language and when you feel ready to switch to C / C++ you shouldn't encounter great problems. I'm currently learning C++ and it's really easy because it's only the syntax that changes.

Best of all is that you get Delphi Personal for free at www.borland.com so perhaps Delphi is a alternative for you?

Still i agree with Sigma. You should have fun with programming... if you have to force yourself to learn it you should not learn it.

cya
thomas

Edited by - Lithander on February 2, 2002 8:44:30 AM

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do what i did..

if i dont understand something, i read the paragraph/chapter over and over again untill i understand/memorize. or if that doesnt help, find something else(other tutorial) and repeat the process over and over again.

pretty painful at first but when you do understand it, you wouldnt understand how fun it is to program. i learned c++ in matter of couple of months.

hope that helps

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quote:
Original post by Lithander
I''m almost a bit scared to post that....

I have begun programming in turbo pascal (yes Sigma I remember 80x25 screens and Kurt Cobain, too - none but Metallica is a better band ) and quickly advanced to Delphi.

Okay this forum is full of C++ programmers but Delphi is great in motivating you. It''s easy to achieve first results and you don''t have to care much for the boring stuff. I don''t have to register window classes and do lines of api calls to get a win32 application running.
And it''s a prejudice that Delphi limits you compared to C++. It''s not even slower.



You say Delphi is easier, more fun (I agree with the easier. I like both kinds though so more fun is something which changes per person. Most people indeed think C++ is more boring than VB or Delphi.) and not slower.

If it really didn''t have this con, why would all the pro''s (ok maybe not all but most of them) use C++ and not Delphi? I think Delphi is slower if you use them both optimized, and it has limitations.

Still I can''t say you should choose for C++, I used VB first too and VB and Delphi are both great languages, although I think advanced people should really use C++

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well - pascal (object or turbo) are very important to learn how to programm structured - Nikolaus Wirth rules !!!

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I agree with ZGL_Sigma : If you don''t enjoy coding then what are you doing here... OK.. it can be a hell when you start something complety new a you dont know what anything does.. but that''s also the fun part... and like everybody here i started at pascal too. moved to delphi and then to C++.. and learned some other languages on the road (x86 asm, oberon, java, C#,..)

and if you''re bored.. just start winamp and turn on some music... (i have it startup with resumer plugin)..

and please dont start another programming language fight here

There are more worlds than the one that you hold in your hand...

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hariycoconuts ... have you had any experience with other programming languages?

If you haven''t, I won''t says it''s necessarily bad to jump straight into C/C++, but you are definately doing it the hard way. Maybe you ought to look at either VB or Delphi (or both), simply because you''ll see the effects of what you are trying to achieve far more quickly. These languages are far more ''instant'' in that you''ll have an app up and runnning far more quickly than with C/C++. This will teach you general programminng skills far more quickly than with C/C++.

Personally, I use VB a lot to test an algorithm or create little helper apps, where performance isn''t an issue.

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I jumped straight into C++ at university with no prior programming experience. That was hard enough, it must be hell trying to learn it on your own - and if thats the case maybe you should follow the advice on this thread and try something simpler first.

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well - try making a DirectX program (that''s what I tried @ first - but DX is boring) after you''ve written Hello World in C !

I was stupid enough to think that a Game Programing starter kit would make me able to program any games. if someone knows it -
there were several good (e-)books in it but it didn''t do what it said - who expected

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well - try making a DirectX program (that''s what I tried @ first - but DX is boring) after you''ve written Hello World in C !

I was stupid enough to think that a Game Programing starter kit would make me able to program any games. if someone knows it -
there were several good (e-)books in it but it didn''t do what it said - who expected

well is here anybody else who bought something like that ???
just want to make sure thatr I''m not the only one who was stupid as newbie

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your not alone

but i was more stupider
since after hours of reading direct x tut, i never realized i didnt understand a thing untill the end

but now im smarter now and i learned opengl
and even came up wit my own camera system!! (its really just gluLookat controled by arrow keys, nothing big..)

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unfortunatly, the way most books go about teaching programming, is to throw utterly pointless examples at you, just to show you a technique or feature, and they often will not finish the example. This does lead to extreme bordom because there is no furfilment. What I''d suggest is dive in and try and make something fun... just really simple things at first. You will then come accross things you can''t do and or things that you know can''t be right, at these times, it''s then wise to head to the books.

that way you learn through experience, which, in my opinion, is infinitly better than learning form a book.

also, Can I stress how INSANLY important it is to learn C++ and NOT C. C is quickly becomming a dead language. (IMO)
finding good C++ tutorials is extremely hard.

in fact, because of this, I''d actually recommend learning Java before C++. there are some very good java books out there. and they will teach you OOP. very few ''C++'' tutorials will.

the game programming starter kit (is the current revision number 4?) looks to be very poor to me... a general rule is to steer away from the sams "teach yourself in 30 minutes" rubbish... which I believe that contains a couple of..

also, a lot of ''visual C++'' books teach MFC, not C++. you have to be careful of that.

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Programming is my hobby.
i've learned programming from QuakeIIIArena game source code...
its very useful. and contains things with the right way to make'em...
I never liked Delphi btw Mr Lithander! because if u don't register window class you will never understand how it works, do u?. am kinda person who likes to know how every thing is made

hairycoconuts Mabe your problem is that you are trying to make myOpenGL . start making simple functions first. even if the functions are available eg: myStrcpy(). create your own lib, this lib will help you later on. Create you own address book, export it to self-encrypted files. Search for any thing u like in life and try to make it through C++. C++ is the best...

check this story:
i had a course in school in the Engineering Mechanics field called "Dynamics 3D". i love programming and needs to pass this! so i made a program that solves 80% of the book's problems, and dedicated it to my teacher. i my self can't solve 10% of'em :D, and i got 'A'!
you may do almost any thing in C++ ...

And don't forget music! its the best for a programmer. i lesten to Yanni when working on the thinking stuff, and "rap/dance" when on the baoring stuff...

Edit: RipTorn posted when i was writing so... learning through experience is my point too

"The Railgun Master"
DaHeR


Edited by - DaHeR on February 2, 2002 8:08:15 PM

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I took yeasrs on and off and got virtually nowhere. Then a friend pointed me to

"The C Programming Language"

by Brian Kernigham & Dennis Ritchie, the creators of the languaage. Its not the largest book but it is the best, and explains all aspects of c. the mistake i made in the first place was trying to learn c++, when i really needed to learn c.

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quote:
Original post by daher
I never liked Delphi btw Mr Lithander! because if u don''t register window class you will never understand how it works, do u?. am kinda person who likes to know how every thing is made



I won''t start a discussion about the pro''s and the contra''s of Delphi here.
However, registering a windows claas is not the most important thing you have to learn when you are beginning with a programming language. the win-api isn''t very easy to use and you''ll find yourself worrying a lot with designing your programs visual elements instead of solving your real problems.
Delphi doesn''t force you to take the easy way. If you want to save memory you can use the win-api as you would in c++. There are 64k demos programmed in Delphi and they are as good as C ones.
The important point in my eyes is that Delphi (as well as VB) allows you to skip the borring parts (setting up you controlls in an app) and concentrate fully on the challanging and therefore fun parts.
Because of that I think it''s good to start with an other language then C++ when learning the art of programming.

That''s just my opinion. You guys might do it as you prefere.

cya
Lithander

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Lithander
I have begun programming in turbo pascal (yes Sigma I remember 80x25 screens and Kurt Cobain, too - none but Metallica is a better band ) and quickly advanced to Delphi.




I like Metallica, but I listen much more to stuff like the Scorpions. They''re a German rock band, so many people forgot about them in the ''90s, so their albums have become almost underground in the States (if you''re a fan, you know there''s a new album out; if you''re not, you don''t). Calmer stuff like Eagle Eye Cherry and Dave Matthews Band is cool too.

...

To answer your question: You get the hang of it, and you develop a style to fit your strengths and weaknesses. You develop over time, and as you do, you become stronger in areas that you were weak in at first (like classes). Cryin out loud, for a while there I just couldn''t understand that when you write a class, you have to end it with a semicolon.


//Do this
class Oopsy
{ //...member data...
};//Notice the semicolon!



//Don''t do this
class Uppsy
{ //...member data...
} //No semicolon, Doh!


Why is that so hard to remember? Don''t know. Get used to it and you won''t do it. That''s what I did on a lot of things.

--Some Guy

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I am trying to learn C++, the only other programming experience I have is that of HTML, and little java-script. I guess I chose C++ because i heard it could do anything. I realise that it is one of the hardest programming languages to learn, but you can spend years and years learning more stuff (so i heard).

I am only 15, and learning from "Sams teach yourself in 24 hours, and the complete idiots guide to C++"

All the examples in both of the books explains what each function etc does, but it doesn''t give you any progects or anything to do yourself, which i think isn''t good thing.

I have been learning for a few months now, and still realy don''t understand the full capabilities of C++. It''s this information I would like to know, so i can aim for something in the future.

Thankz for all your ideas etc, they help me alot, keep posting




-----------------------
This space is for sale
-----------------------

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quote:
Original post by ZGL_Sigma
well - I''m still a OpenGl newbie but I''m programming c++ since 2 years and before that I was prgramming turbo pascal (someone remembers 80x25 screens ?? )

but I can''t say I even have ever fun - but when I don''t have fun but still want to programm (because a problem starts to piss me off) then I hear a bit music - 5 gigs of music on my HD - mainly Nirvana. (someone still remembers Kurt Cobain ???)



Well, I started with tp, but after some time i switched to 80x50 )

By now I can say that i''m an ok c++ programmer because I had the chance of choosing the book "C++ from the Ground Up", and it''s still the only one I have. (also includes important C stuff)

My initial problems were the frustration of thinking how fast how i''d solve problems in pascal while spending hours doing the same in c++.

BTW, I still listen to nirvana while coding! (metallica is also one of my favourites...)

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quote:
Original post by hairycoconuts
All the examples in both of the books explains what each function etc does, but it doesn''t give you any progects or anything to do yourself, which i think isn''t good thing.



Perhaps you want to try ''C++ in 21 day''s''? thats what I''m reading currently and it explains the stuff it teaches very good. After reading it you will know how things work. I have some programming background allready so it''s a bit too detailed sometimes but i guess it will be perfect for a beginner.
At the end of each chapter you''ll find a quiz and some exercises so you''ll might like that.

I know that books are very expensive. If you don''t have the money for just another book about programming I can offer you a very cheap solution. Just drop me a mail

cya
lithander

p.s.: it seems that a lot of programmers enjoy rock or similar music. It''s quite surprising isn''t it? You should think that calmer music should be better for the concentration.

p.p.s: scorpions? i''ll never understand why german bands like rammstein and scorpions are popular in america and the really good ones complete unknown. *grin*

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well - Rammstein is so popular because it''s unique - but there are even bad bnds which come from germany like "No Angles" or "Bro''sis" or whatever names they have !

Nirvana
Limp Bizkit
and Rammstein

Rule !!

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for me its always fun to code, be it a game or work, nasty elusive bugs you spend the whole day or week chasing is what takes the fun out of it, but applying the bug spray in the right place after having a bad time with the bug, is like Sex after a fight.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Whatever happened to Eddy Vetter (don''t know how to spell his name) from Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam was here, on top, one of the most influential bands of the 90s, and then they were gone. No one talks about Eddy like he''s dead, but no one talks about him like he''s around either. What happened?

...

And I dunno on Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days. Good book.

I also have C++ for Dummies, and I''m not too happy with it. There''s a lot of necessary information missing, like when it starts talking about switch statements, and the only reason someone would buy it is because of what it says on the cover: "Written in Plain English." But so is 21 Days. >BG

--Some Guy

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