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VisualB4BigD

Need some input for FPS/Tactical Strategy

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Ok this game is going to play kinda different from other games. It''s mission based and you have a team of 5 people. It plays the style of a shoot-em'' up though. But where the tactical comes in is when you are out-numbered 5 to 1 in a single room. You have the ability to freeze the game for a selected period of time to think up a plan, you can send team member 1 to the left and team member 2 to the right, each member''s targets can be set from within this "Tactical View Mode". You can also be whoever you want on your team at anytime during the game. This game also features an extensive story line. So my question is, should this style of game be first person, third person, or isometric (not my choice). Also I would like to know what you guys think about this. Thanx guys (No Flames Please). -Dylan p.s. texture and 3d artists are greatly needed.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
well that sounds all good and everthing. but i would kind of do both so when you go into that lil room and the game pauses you can see everything that is going and like see bullets wiz pass you with that matrix effet or any other nice things you can put in there. kind of like max payne ....so basically what i''m saying is you start off in first person then you go to 3rd person veiw or vice versa its really up to you as the programmer.

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That sounds good, here is how I was going to do it. I was going to have it thrid person for plain ol'e walking and running then when you want to aim, it switches to the first person mode. When you in tactical view, its kinda like the "black and white" camera, it is full scaleable and can be rotated any direction around the rooms center point. What do you think?

I sure hope this world isn't one big joke, because I don't get it.

[edited by - VisualB4BigD on March 17, 2002 9:46:02 PM]

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A stroke of genius. That idea is sheer genius.
You should make it third person untill it pops into the "tactical mode" which bumbs the camera into a free floating mode. Also as the previous replier stated, you should be able to see all the bullets wizzing past and people leaping in mid air to create almost a matrix/comic strip feel.
It will have to have a plausable and intense storyline (play Deus Ex for ideas) as well as more than just blowing things to peices for me to want to play it.

Hope this helps.

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Thanx, as far as the story line goes. I have a team member creating a very thick one. It sounds good so far. I think you will be pleased

I sure hope this world isn''t one big joke, because I don''t get it.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
yeah great idea!
But wouldn''t it be better if there was a sort of minimum zone where the tactical mode wasn''t possible. I mean it would be more realistic if you could''nt stop the time to plan the events, while the heat of the action was at its peak. But you could fall back (out of the zone) and then plan the tactics and then face the action again. I think its a great and new idea, though it also smells a little bit of cheat.

Last I would wote for 1.ps in the whole game. The tactic map could be a transparent overlay 2d map you could switch on and off, 2d maps with waypoints like the ones from Rouqe Spear for example....

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I''m trying to keep something new, when you are in tactical view, the point is not just to have an advantage over a few men but to think about how to take out an entire room full of men. I don''t think that a 2D overlay would work for what I want to do. Thanx for the thought though.


I sure hope this world isn''t one big joke, because I don''t get it.

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Oh yeah I forgot to add that, I didn''t want time to completly stop. So I''m just going to have time slow down. So you have a limited amount of time to think of a plan. Because it would suck to be shot in slow motion

I sure hope this world isn''t one big joke, because I don''t get it.

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That is a pretty neat idea!

It reminds me a lot of the old game "Space Hulk", the computerized version in particular. Although it was not exactly the same as your idea, you still had a squad of around 5 guys, were constantly outnumbered, and could switch between men to plan your tactics.

I think, that if you don't want play to actually stop altogether, you would need to have a pretty good keyboard shortcut system, so that the player (after having memorized the keys =) can walk into a room, and say

[Agent1]
[Move]
((Location))
[Provide covering fire for]
[Agent2]

[Agent3]
[Crouch]
[Primary target]
((that big guy over there with the rocket launcher))

where each [command] can be activated by a single keypress, and ((clicks)) are mouse clicks (as in a physical object in the room). You could also have commands such as
[Switch player]
[Agent4]
to change which guy you're controlling

Also, you would want the player to always be able to use this system, even if it is just against 1 guard. This is partly for practice, but also so that the player doesn't feel cheated ("Hey, why can I only use this cool feature sometimes and not others?"). It would also be fun to walk into a room and make your men hide behind barrels, etc, then all open fire on one guy (just to make sure he's dead, y'know?). Maybe you could restrict this in the same way that Max Payne restricts bullet time©?


EDIT: removed use of angled brackets (>).

[edited by - freshya on March 24, 2002 1:46:41 AM]

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The way I was going to have the orders work is to give each man on your team there own icon in the top right corner. After time has been slowed down to a crawl. You just click on the man''s icon and a little interface pops down with orders in it. You click on the order that you want to give him.

The orders are pretty detailed. You can tell each man what weapon to fire with. Where to aim on the enemies body. Also who to shoot at. I will need some help with all of this implementation. The engine is being built by a friend of mine right now. It''s going to be a dual engine. It will work for VB and for C++. It should be cool. I''m not clear on what language I''m going to use.

I sure hope this world isn''t one big joke, because I don''t get it.

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Hmm... while I don''t dispute the fact that a mouse interface is essential at first (and if you forget a keypress), The mouse is quite finicky, whereas keypresses are definite. Also, keypresses are much faster. Look at a game such as starcraft: does anyone actually click on those icons at the bottom of the screen? When I play with my friends, it sounds like a receptionist typing, the keyboard is used that often! Basically, it''s just a way of hiding the interface, letting the player slip further into your non-reality.

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Yeah I think your correct on that. But I will definetly want to keep some of the mouse interface for those "clickers". It''s going to come together one way or another.

I sure hope this world isn''t one big joke, because I don''t get it.

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GREAT IDEA!

Its a good idea for multiplayer against computer or just single player.

I had a similar idea for multiplayer vs. multiplayer. Basically, you can also control you bot teammates however i think the max painish pause and bullet time thing would only fit into a similar idea that comes with the package: a video editor to make a dramatic bullettime matrixy movie of your game.

The bot control idea is one that im working on w/ the tribes engine: right now i can creat bots, and while in one character, lets say my "human" character in the game world, i can walk up to a control panel and select a bot to control. the point of this game is to find and kill the real "human" characters..so in wierd kinda of way this is a perma-death game. Here is another twist.. its big.. like several full tribes maps big, and underground and super large structers can be built in real-time (tribes is a great enging )

The other main element: Multiplayer save-game. Because of the size and scope of the game (think something like a really large scale Battlezone game) the need to save the game for an appointed restart will allow for longer more epic games, with the added advantage for teams to discuss strategy for the next restart of the game.

Also, Im in the process of writing the counter-strike firing model in the game, as well as the movement model. Fighting and squad based tactics will be based on counter-strike (why re-invent the wheel eh? )

Ive got the transporters working, but i need to implement counter measures and limitations on them.

The only thing I havent got yet is getting those really big internally rendered dropships in Tribes to fly. My dream is to create the first ever fully functional fps internally rendered flying craft that people or bots can walk around in while it flys. Of course this battlecruiser will have transporters and weapons ala Star Trek.

Tell me what ya think !

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Look at the Feng Shui game system (I''ve forgotten who makes it, but look at one of the back threads about pen-paper RPGs, it''s bound to be mentioned somewhere)

I really like this idea, but I would make the following addendum:

Never control a single character exclusively, play in short turns where a temporary game freeze lets players line up orders for each character (to be carried out in the next three seconds of game time). After the time limit is up (or every player is content with his/her choices) players get to watch their orders play out.

This is my take on translating the Feng-Shui battle system into a CRPG (with a little bit of butchery for good measure).

Next freeze, you have twenty seconds to dish out new orders to everyone (some orders should take more than one ''tick'').

George D. Filiotis
Are you in support of the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide? You should be!

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