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I have met some people who *uninstall* programs by deleting the folder itself. Is there a way to disable this...? I am writing a program were if the something is not properly uninstalled, it would cause problems for the computer. Is there a way to stop people rummaging through your folder and doing as they please - which in effect will end up skrewing up their computer. _____________________________________________________ ICQ #: 149510932 Google - OpenGL - DirectX - Windows Guide Network - MSDN - Symantec Virus Info "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

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There''s nothing you can do about it. Setting everything to read-only will help a bit, but nothing will stop them entirely. Anyway, when people are that stupid, I consider any problems they get to be their own. Put a warning in your installer, which should deter most people from trying.

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Sounds a bit suspicous...
But anyway why dont you just put everything into a resource then they could not do anything to it. Or you could create another .exe hide it somewhere eg system folder then create a registry key then on start up have it run the file and if it does not detect the folder then it would just re-copy everything to that folder... most people would be to dumb to figure out what was going on!!!

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And you''d seriously piss off the advanced users in some cases (for instance: if they move the directory some place else). I hate Micro$oft for forcing that bl**dy Internet Connection Wizard in my otherwise neatly categorised Program Files directory. (Stupid "System Restore". Took ages to disable that)

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sounds like you dont know how to code your software then. basically if the app requires that it is uninstalled via an uninstaller or things will get screwed up, you seriously need to rethink what you are doing. there should be NO game or app that requires an installation program. the only expceptions really are patches to the OS, os tweak tools, dx filters, ms software (since it tends to upgrade the os, heh), etc. i cant see how deleting files in the apps folder woudl cause problems for th pc. please explain. personally i will not install most software that i cant install via a simple unzip of the archive and uninstall through deletion of the folder. then again i used to use dos, and enjoyed being able to delete apps without worrying that they left garbage behind because of shoddy programming.

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quote:
Original post by a person
sounds like you dont know how to code your software then.


Please lose the elitist attitude

Almost every commercial application/game uses an installer and unistaller program. Setting are almost always stored in the registry. Which is why just deleting the folder is not enough.

There are pros and cons for this method. Your entitled to your own personal opinion over which you like better. Calm down.

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I''m assuming we''re talking about Windows here...

If you follow the conventions for a Windows application, then you use the Registry for settings. So, an uninstaller would be required to remove the created Registry entries since just deleting the application''s directory wouldn''t accomplish that.

Even on other platforms there''s usually some suggested place to store settings that isn''t the application''s directory. Again, an uninstaller solves the problem of residual nonsense.

In a perfect world or platform, the application folder would completely represent the application. Deleting it would delete whatever is attached to the application. Bundles on Mac OS X are pretty close, but not 100% there.

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maybe you missed my point.
the reason i call it shoddy programming, is because he said just deleting the apps folder would screw up the computer. that is VERY shoddy programming, especially for a game.

i merely think that ppl abuse the registry for saving things. especially in smaller freeware/shareware apps. setting should be stored in local directories to the game. this is especially important for games like quake which can be difficult to configure without using a text editor on the cfg file (ie for setting up bindings, aliases and special video settings that dont normally appear in the options). ever since some commercial apps had broken uninstallers which deleted the ENTIRE directory below the installed directory. i have been wary of uninstallers. also some installers tend to overwrite newer versions of files. while winme+ handles this better (system files are not protected to a degree) it still is a problem. there is no real convention ot use the registry to store stuff, its just something ms thought would be nice. just like storing all your setting in an ini file in the windows or windows/system directory.

i do realize that many commercial apps use installers and uninstallers. most of those apps are also large and offer different installations based on how much will be put on the harddrive (while the other stuff is left on the cd). now it may sound silly, but to me smaller apps should not need installers. they ussually dont have different install options and have no need for global system configurations (ie part of a suite which needs to use a single config repository).

your right. heck linux has MANY suggested places to store stuff. so many standards its tough to pick just one

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// ANTI-MORON PROGRAM DELETION PREVENTOR V.1.0

// Copyright Alex MW (aka Sandman) 2002

// Run at startup (call from HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run)


#include <stdio.h>

INT APIENTRY WinMain(HINSTANCE,HINSTANCE,LPCSTR,int)
{

FILE* protectedFiles = fopen("MyExe.Exe","r");

while(protectedFiles);

return 0;
}


It's pretty stupid, but it works. You'll probably want to add a nice message handler to it as well, so that your uninstaller can ask it nicely to shut itself down.


[edited by - Sandman on March 19, 2002 6:46:10 AM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Please inform us of how leaving some things in the registry for your program will/could screw up their PC completely... I mean, I can''t think of a single good reason deleting a program directory would/should screw something up if it''s done properly. I''m interested in how not uninstalling something properly will screw something up though... does it make refrence to your program in system.ini or something?

Billy - BillyB@msrnj.com

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Installation primarily involves copying files to the hard drive. The two main types of files copied are those that cannot be accessed from the CD(eg the files need maximum access speed) or files that cannot be read-only. I remember that older DOS games could be played straight off the CD, although they didn''t much appreciate not being able to create config files, and they couldn''t save data.

Sandman, for a moron i guess that would work. However, I usually watch the processes running on my system(i actually use PView so that I see ALL the processes, including hidden ones). If I saw that running, I''d immediately call it a virus, kill the process, drag it out of startup, beat it to death and delete it.

-----------------------------
Direct3D vs. OpenGL
The sad thing about artificial intelligence is that it lacks artifice and therefore intelligence.
Democracy is where you say what you want and do what you''re told.

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plus then your app, and all apps afterwards get tagged as spyware, placed on blacklists, and will no longer be used by the majority of ppl that care about their system.

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Well, If I told you why it would skrew up the computer, I''d have to shoot you

Well, actually the reason it would skrew up the computer is because the program would overwrite system registry values, erase system.ini, win.ini, and just about everything found in the Program Files folder.

No, it''s not a game

...
...
...

BANG!

_____________________________________________________

ICQ #: 149510932
Google - OpenGL - DirectX - Windows Guide Network - MSDN - Symantec Virus Info
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

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quote:
Original post by Programmer One
Well, If I told you why it would skrew up the computer, I''d have to shoot you

Well, actually the reason it would skrew up the computer is because the program would overwrite system registry values, erase system.ini, win.ini, and just about everything found in the Program Files folder.

No, it''s not a game

...
...
...

BANG!




So... its a virus?

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quote:
Original post by Ratman
So... its a virus?



No, it is a system configuration utility. What it does is it can borrow one configuration from one computer, and put them on any number of computers. So, if you have two computers, and you want them to be identicle (legally) all you have to do is make a "copy" of the current configuration, then "paste" it onto the other computer. (It rewrites the registry, etc....). If you delete the program manually, it would *think* that the paste procedure never happened, so it would re-paste the configuration.



_____________________________________________________

ICQ #: 149510932
Google - OpenGL - DirectX - Windows Guide Network - MSDN - Symantec Virus Info
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

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umm, such a utility would be silly (copy registry entries to another pc) since that is not too useful. regedit (comes with win) allows exporting and does what you suggest you are making. plus you can use it to back up entire registry or only portions.

by making copies of configurations, does not make the computers identaical legally. if the software should not be on the other pc, doing roundabout methods dont make it legal (ie copy the folder and then export the registry to the other pcs). if you want identical configurations, you should copy entire drives to the other pcs a la ghost (replicates on pc harddrive to many others).

i cant see how the utility would think that it never pasted the data if you delete it. merely by creating a registry entry it would know if things have been pasted. you could store backups into a user specified directory (ie not in the program directory). even the under the MyDocuments directory would be a good canidate. make all the files readonly and hidden, plus make the directory hidden. the avg user would not be able to find the directory, so deleting the app would cause no damage. they would just reinstall it and bam, they could retsore things.

now i dont see how making a copy of some registry entries which when done, the target pc still works, would cause the pc to get screwed up because the person deletes the app. to me, it sound like shoddy coding. even if the app repasted the config, it should be smart enough to handle things correctly (ie not blindly doing things) by using the iwn32 api for registry manipulation. you can do a paste operation 1million times and the registry would be EXACTLY how it was after the first paste as long as you did things properly.

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quote:
Original post by merlin9x9
In a perfect world or platform, the application folder would completely represent the application. Deleting it would delete whatever is attached to the application. Bundles on Mac OS X are pretty close, but not 100% there.

I agree completely. Why, oh why, can''t NTFS metadata be used to store registry dependency information? Delete the folder, and all corresponding registry entries magically disappear. That would be nice.

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quote:
Original post by a person
umm, such a utility would be silly (copy registry entries to another pc) since that is not too useful. regedit (comes with win) allows exporting and does what you suggest you are making. plus you can use it to back up entire registry or only portions.



Think *computer illerate*

quote:

by making copies of configurations, does not make the computers identaical legally. if the software should not be on the other pc, doing roundabout methods dont make it legal (ie copy the folder and then export the registry to the other pcs).



Who said anything about copying programs...?

quote:

if you want identical configurations, you should copy entire drives to the other pcs a la ghost (replicates on pc harddrive to many others).



Then the whole point looses it''s point.

quote:

i cant see how the utility would think that it never pasted the data if you delete it. merely by creating a registry entry it would know if things have been pasted.



Ghost Engine

quote:

you could store backups into a user specified directory (ie not in the program directory). even the under the MyDocuments directory would be a good canidate.



Very messy

quote:

make all the files readonly and hidden, plus make the directory hidden. the avg user would not be able to find the directory, so deleting the app would cause no damage. they would just reinstall it and bam, they could retsore things.



Be afriad, be very afraid of the average user...I have had lots of cases were the "average user" caused lots of damage.

quote:

now i dont see how making a copy of some registry entries which when done, the target pc still works, would cause the pc to get screwed up because the person deletes the app.



The app maintains the configuration, without it, the Ghost Engine would skrew things up.

quote:

to me, it sound like shoddy coding.



You do not even know what the thing does, not as how it''s written, you cannot just tell me "Hey, here''s a program that I have never seen the code to, nor do I fully understand what it does - never mind that, the code is trash!"

quote:

even if the app repasted the config, it should be smart enough to handle things correctly



It''s not. At least not yet. That is why it is still in development

quote:

(ie not blindly doing things) by using the iwn32 api for registry manipulation. you can do a paste operation 1million times and the registry would be EXACTLY how it was after the first paste as long as you did things properly.



Don''t forget that the old confiiguration is taken out.

_____________________________________________________

ICQ #: 149510932
Google - OpenGL - DirectX - Windows Guide Network - MSDN - Symantec Virus Info
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

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well explain what your program does. you merely state that it deals with copy configurations. you seem to imply that its mainly reg entries, but may also include *.ini things as well.

what the name "Ghost engine" has anything to do with the app not storing simple config info somewhere is beyond me.

backups are not messy, they are a required thing for copy configurations. if you dont make backups, you cant do restores.

i know the avg user can be destructive, but this tool does not sound like something the avg user would be using or need. though i highly doubt they could find a folder that is hidden (ie hidden attribute is on). windows by default does not display hidden folders, so they would not even know the folder exists.

i dont understand how copying only configurations will make two pcs identical legally. they will not have the same software installed, since you say your not copying software. having different hardware would mean that you have different config no matter how you cut and paste.

the app maintains the config, so what does ghost engine have to do with anything? unless you have ghost engine and another app that interacts with it? thus two apps you are creating (ie client server?) please explain further.

how can you get rid of the old config? you dont know what entries are for hardware and what is for software, and unless the pcs have the EXACT same hardware you CANT blindly remove entries. regardless of whether the old config is completly erased, doing that multiple times would result in the same thing. unless by some miracle you are incorrectly accessing the registry.

i somewhat know what the app is for, and unless you clarify it will be my only reality of what the app does. therfore unless your explain it, i must judge by what i know. i feel that this app mimics regedit to a degree without the editing. basically its designed to back diff copies of a config and apply this to other pcs to give them the same config. what you mean by config is quite vauge, but i would have to guess other app reg entries as well as user info entry stuff.

if this is truly for a computer illitrate person, the app should make backups. explicit warnings will also be a good idea to deter them form installing the app and saving them from this.

it is THEIR computer and they should be allowed to rummage through THEIR directories as they see fit. please also explain what a proper uninstall would do to make things safe. it is seeming now more like a lack of design work now.

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