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dogfallzone

new programmer

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I have a brother that wants to get into game programming. He is 13 years old. Do you thinks he is to young? If not, what language should he start with? If you have a answer e-mail me at dogfallzone@yahoo.com

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That''s a fine age to start at. As for where he should start, here would be a good place.

==========================================
Paranoia
Look at the Star
That I took from the sky
I''ve spent many years
trying to climb that high
It burnt my hands
and i know it will never be mine
The approach
is always unsure
It''s no wonder I''ve never
tried this before
I''ve walked away
and i know it will never be mine

Lyrics from Next of Kin (my band)

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13 is a great age to start programming at. I started programming seriously at the age of 12. Personally, i think he sould learn C/C++ right off the bat, it is the most popular language, and the most widely used.

------------------------------
If someone asks you "A penny for your thoughts" and you put your two cents in, do you get change?

[edited by - GarlandIX on March 21, 2002 12:49:43 AM]

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13 is a good age to start. I started when I was about 10 but wasnt serious till about 12-13. Ahh the good ol TRS-80....

-Todd

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I mean absolutely no offense by this but...

How the hell can you guys say you were seriously programming at 12 or 13? Thats just not healthy, whatever happened to normal kid stuff? Maybe its my definition that differs from the one your using, to my mind "seriously programming" means that you program almost on a daily basis and for hours not minutes at a time. And i''m not talking about some scripting either.

Jeez i think at that time i was more concerned with when we would get to blow things up in chem lab or skiving off to play magic the gathering.


Maybe i''m just out of touch but programming just didnt seem fun when we were that age, the ideas of writting your own game sure was cool and maybe when i was 14 or 15 i was mucking about with some simple games using STOS and AMOS on the ST and Amiga but i don''t think i actually layed down some real code until i was about 17 (Java by the way).

Rant over with

/* Ignorance is bliss, then you go and spoil it by learning stuff */

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In some universities they teach PASCAL for beginner courses because it is simple to learn. Afterwards they make transits to other languages in different courses. Guess what, Java is even simpler than PASCAl and it is much closer to the other popular high-level languages(C and C++).

I STARTED studies(only counting university) of the following languages in the following order(If two courses started simultaneously i have grouped them without any blank line)

PASCAL

JAVA
PROLOG

C++

C
LISP

I would recommend Java because i found out that even after getting experience I was more PRODUCTIVE in Java than my other favourites(C and C++).





[edited by - zappsweden on March 22, 2002 9:14:06 PM]

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I started when I was 13. It really depends on the person. Most children don''t develop abstract thinking skills until 12-13, and you really need these skills for efficent programming.

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Take me as you want...

I''ve been messin with code since I was able to type. (It was basic on apples OK. All I did until 2nd grade was pick a program already made and say ''hey lets change this'' and then tryed to find out what it did and why)

I didnt start to program until 2nd or 3rd when I made a text base adventure game based on some book (it even had a strength var for fights and I was not trying to study how to program and to this day i never have taken any schooling in it. I can program and get what i want done but I know theres better ways then the way I do it and faster ways to get it done.

So my POINT is (i ramble Sorry--just picure me in person :0 any who) if hes gona program he may want to try and leran things by the book (dont have to go by the book just know the book ways of doin it)

/**
oh and zipless i went to school then came home a messed around with code ''til 10-12 o''clock at night and i still went outside to play with friends just not offen and i now wish i would not have spent so much time on my puter but i did
/**

I am a surtified Dork! So dont try this at home kids

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quote:
Original post by ImMortal Soulz

I am a surtified Dork! So dont try this at home kids



One that cannot spell at that...

Death of one is a tragedy, death of a million is just a statistic.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I have been programming since I was about 11-12 also. Sure it was just Basic on an old computer but it is still programming. I also made my own webiste with pure html at 13.I just love figuring out how thins work. I have always been like that.

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i also started messing with BASIC on an old Atari 800XL at an early age, but if you''ve got a pc handy then i''d also recommend Java as a good start. Especially since sun.java.com has extensive tutorials and docs to get someone started. The fact that its free and fully standardised is also a major plus

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I too think he should go directly at C++, I got my first C++ book at age of 12. At my 13 birthday I got a bigger one, C++ in 21 days (like 700 pages)... Although after read 1/3 it was so boring I bought a DirectX gameprogramming book written by André Lamothe and I felt I could finally use the skills I learned while coding just iostream...
Next book was Direct3D, it was to friggin'' hard though, it was like 150 pages about matrix theory before I even got to type code. So I checked out Nehe''s game tutorials instead... And here I am today, just turned 17, just finished the C++ in 21 days (hehe, took me 4 years =>), and just this day bought a new OpenGL book.

There you got it, I''m not saying it''s the best route, but I think it worked out for me:
C++ --> DirectDraw --> OpenGL

btw these are not small steps.

/G

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And btw, it''s important he learns to post things here by himself... No offence to you though, your a good brother/sister...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Delphi(~Object Oriented, visual pascal) works pretty well for games as well, and it''s very beginner-friendly. I was able to crank out Tetris in Delphi in about 1/2 the time it took me to write it in C++/OpenGL, and the Delphi version is about 800 lines shorter and easier to understand. OpenGL of course, gives you a lot more flexibility and cheaper(effort-wise) special effects, but for quick little 2D games I don''t think it gets any simpler than Delphi.

And with Delphi, you can get the fully-functional <a href="http://www.borland.com/delphi/personal/del6personal_keyanddown_steps.html">personal edition</a> free for non-commercial use - which saves you 100$ right off the bat.




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zipless, i think when people say they started seriously programming when they were 13-14, they mean like, actually doing stuff with the code. like actually making it a hobby of theirs, instead of just kind of fooling around with BASIC or HTML a little bit every once in a while.

anyway, i started when i was 13, i dove right into C++ and didnt think it was hard, so thats what your brother should do, if hes like me lol

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i started with basic at 10 but not ''seriously'', then a couple of years later did pascal, found it easy so went on to c++ and have been doing that since, 13 is great age to start, i only wish i had started earler

What about me? What about Raven?

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Whatever your brother decides to start with tell him to make sure that he picks the right book/tutorial etc, if he picks up any bad habits now then they''ll be hard to shake later on so anything that makes assumptions about the readers knowledge should be left well alone for a while.

I''d start with Java, mainly because C++ has issues with string variables that can be confusing. Also there seem to be more "my first programming" type books available for Java.


Samith: I think i get what your saying but my views are probably a bit more extreme. I wouldn''t count fooling around with code as ANY sort of programming, in fact even generating html isnt programming in my book cos its only a markup language. I dont even rate Visual basic as proper programming (now i''m just beging me to get flammed) although it is programming.

Having said that little lot, fooling around with code is good as long as you progress beyond it, in fact its a good learning experience.

/* Ignorance is bliss, then you go and spoil it by learning stuff */

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you know your brother better than any of us. ideally, i would say start with C++ or C++ with an ASM and VB suppliment. BUT, does your brother have the attention span, or time, or resources to jump into C++? if your not sure, then dont start him on it! he''ll put it off and off ''till hes 15.
you may want to start him with VB or delphi. dont bother with basic or pascal. alot of the times, younger kids NEED to have quick, RAD graphics, like VB provides.

if you do show him C++, and he begins to lose intrest due to the slow development, you may get some programmable robots. the lego robots for example. you can get software to program them in C++ or VB, and probably anythings else. if game programming doesnt interest him, i bet you robot programming will. (its practically a fact.)

one thing i found good is to introduce a game programming language instead of a developer one. like QuakeC, or games like AI wars -- excellent and exciting ways to build some basic programming foundation. you might introduce these as suppliments to normal studies.



when i was 13, i thought computers and computer games were the devil.

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quote:
Original post by Gee
And btw, it''s important he learns to post things here by himself... No offence to you though, your a good brother/sister...



He is on a trip with our dad, and this is really his account. He will be back Tomorrow.

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quote:
Original post by Gee
And btw, it''s important he learns to post things here by himself... No offence to you though, your a good brother/sister...



He is on a trip with our dad, and this is really his account. He will be back Tomorrow.

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Well, my dad showed me a little BASIC when I was around 5 years old (not much, but enough for basic concepts). I have to say it really helped.

As for the language to start in, I''d say Java, sticking to single-class programs until later on. Java is a simple, elegant language and similar enough to C++ for an easy conversion later on. C++ has has its confusing points such as pointer arithmetic and virtual functions. Java gets rid of such lower level programming preliminaries which is less stress on the beginer. Java also has a large, well-documented standard library.Java also makes windows programming a breeze, which is nice since many begining programmers are only interested in how to make flashy games. But I guess the actual language you start off with is not as important as how you learn it. You can make programming as simple or as hard as you want. It all depends on what resources you have to learn from.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I have AI wars, that is a cool game , i have a pretty good bug. but i probably only like it cuz im 13 , also i know C++/Direct3D8 and i love the common files cuz i can type a few lines of code and i start seeing results, but mostly i find samples and experiment and change things to see how they work, that is just how i learn best. i have C++ for dummies, and a Direct3d book by Andre Lamothe. It was not too hard to learn.
I almost always just play games like Q3, Wolfenstein Red Alert, Diablo 2 and, MYST 3 , which i think is the best game ever. I only learned to program because i though it would be cool to someday make a game that is like on of the ones i like playing.

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